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Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 4:41:45 AM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
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I am curious.I am a submissive.I have been submissive toward's Women since I was very young.I have questioned my own submission.Was I normal?I even talked to therapists about it.I got different answer's based upon their own view's.

With the debate going on in LGBT community about nature vs choice,I was wondering.Is the BDSM lifestlye a choice or are we born this way?

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Post #: 1

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 6:23:08 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline

Hi Charles, I certainly don't believe we are born this way. I think we can have it in our genes to be shy, compliant and gentle natured but that's not really submissive is it?!
I also think we can be born with the genes to lead, be competitive and be confident and although those things help dominance, they don't make a dominant in the sense your talking about.

I think for many there is a trigger. My trigger was slapping a guys face in a fight and feeling suddenly very turned on by his reaction. Triggers can start in infancy, through to adult hood. It could very well have something to do with our upbringing.
I had a male sub who told me that his childhood was incredibly bohemian. No rules often make a child feel unsafe and he admits to fantasizing about parents who put restrictions on him because that fantasy made him feel loved and protected.
I more recently chatted to a male sub cross dresser who told me that he grew up with a very strict dad who insisted that he 'man up' from a young age. Everything in his childhood was about showing what a 'boy' he was and his only rebellion was to fantasize in secret about dressing up in his sisters clothes and behaving wimpy.

_____________________________

S&M (Steve and Maria) persona libre de convencionalismos

Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 2

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 6:27:36 AM

MMercurial

Posts: 48
Joined: 1/11/2007
Status: offline

haha

Funny question!

Alot of people here were abused, sexually or otherwise, by parents, relatives, teachers, babysitters, neighbors, etc., when they were children.

They didn't have a choice!!!!!

malesurvivor.org

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 3

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 7:48:17 AM

81song

Posts: 293
Joined: 1/22/2005
Status: offline

Good question and who knows if we were born this way but I think like allthatjaz pointed out it could be some very early triggers. Myself as a ex-catholic-ex-monk-and survive of sexual abuse, well I have a few issues and for me in D/s sort of works on all those issues. I got hit from the nuns, I got hit from Mom and I got hit by my Dad, and they all loved me. When I was in grade school if you had to go to the bathroom you had to put up one finger or two. If you just put up one finger, the nun would say,"hold it for Jesus". Now I was only in the 1st grade but it is no surprise I am what I am in this regard.

(in reply to MMercurial)

Post #: 4

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 9:13:49 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

no I believe the majority of what we are is a choice. I believe very few things are genetic and even if they are genetic you have a choice to change it. I believe I am the way I am due to cultural influence.

(in reply to 81song)

Post #: 5

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 9:18:06 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

I think we are all wired towards our sexuality. Since BDSM is an expression of that sexuality, it would stand to reason that we are wired towards being Dominant or submissive.

I know that I fantasized about this during childhood without knowing what this was until I started reading.

I was never abused or treated badly; in fact had a great childhood with a loving family.

I just knew I was turned on by certain things I saw in movies, books, and behavior experienced between me and my friends.

Later on I connected my sexuality with the fantasies I had during childhood and it all made sense.

I think you do not have a choice on your inherent wiring, but you do have a choice whether to participate in more structured things, like BDSM. Some choose to go through life rejecting their feelings and some embrace them.

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 6

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 12:11:45 PM

phoenixmoonn13

Posts: 398
Joined: 6/11/2010
Status: offline

i am with sexyred1on this one. when i found out what bdsm M/s was it made sense as to who i was. i had no abuse etc also from a stable happy home. i believe i am hardwird submissive. and it makes so much sense for the issues i had when married

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 7

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 12:21:46 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

Alot of people here were abused, sexually or otherwise, by parents, relatives, teachers, babysitters, neighbors, etc., when they were children.

That raises an interesting question and when I did a little googling I found this on-point article:

BDSM and Child Abuse

...Saying that being submissive due to past abuse just doesn't completely hold water. I believe that submission is an inborn trait. This inherent trait may preclude the person to being abused or victimized both as a child and an adult. But, from personal experience, I must say that BDSM can give the survivor the tools he/she needs to heal such abuse. By advocating SS&C, learning your own needs and those of your partner, by advocating strength and independent thought, this lifestyle teaches the submissive that she does indeed have control over what happens to her body. That she doesn't have to be a victim and it is her choice whether or not to submit to a dominant. A victim of abuse had no choice. ...

(in reply to MMercurial)

Post #: 8

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 12:29:42 PM

myotherself

Posts: 7157
Joined: 3/9/2006
From: The cold bit of the UK
Status: offline

I'm with Red and Phoenix on this one. Loving family, no abuse, totally 'normal' childhood. I found peace, contentment and real fulfillment when I 'discovered' bdsm. There has been no choice at all - I am what I am, and happy to be that way.

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There's nowt so queer as folk

(in reply to phoenixmoonn13)

Post #: 9

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 12:46:22 PM

Buzzzz

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Joined: 11/28/2010
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I am with red, phoenix and myotherself on this one

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_"Here is something you should never do to anyone.And here is exactly how to do it to someone you care about". Flagg._

(in reply to myotherself)

Post #: 10

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 1:07:19 PM

xssve

Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline

Being spanked as a child correlates strongly with kinkiness as an adult, according to a relatively recent study.

I don't remember being spanked, slapped a couple of times maybe, that's the way it was in those days - that vanilla right wingers believe in corporeal punishment but typically protest about kink is ironic.

All I know is that I had some pretty well developed sadistic fantasies before I even hit puberty.

(in reply to Buzzzz)

Post #: 11

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 1:58:59 PM

subinlife

Posts: 263
Joined: 5/20/2008
Status: offline

I think I was born submissive, always had to please. My childhood was well rounded and normal.
The abuse in my life happened later in life. All it showed me was a very ugly side of life.
It didn't change who I am inside, per se. In trying to please him I became a victim.

I choose to follow my heart, by living this lifestyle.
Abuse didn't lead me here, my desire to serve and please led me here.

Happy Holidays to All

(in reply to xssve)

Post #: 12

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 2:30:32 PM

WestBaySlave

Posts: 501
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I know that I fantasized about this during childhood without knowing what this was until I started reading.

I was never abused or treated badly; in fact had a great childhood with a loving family.

I just knew I was turned on by certain things I saw in movies, books, and behavior experienced between me and my friends.

Later on I connected my sexuality with the fantasies I had during childhood and it all made sense.

This is essentially my experience, too, when it comes to BDSM. If there were environmental factors during my childhood that made me kinky and submissive I can't put my finger on them.

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 13

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 3:11:19 PM

chimera86

Posts: 2
Joined: 12/18/2010
Status: offline

There are certainly things in the body chemistry of some which make some more likely to be quiet, nonconfrontational, shy and gentle. Just as there are biological factors in other which make others the complete opposite.
The fact is humans are by nature a social species, and for any social system to work there needs to those who lead and those who serve. So it makes sense that some of us would be predisposed to be one or the other, or perhaps be in the middle and fit either roll as the need arises as may be the case of switches.
Then of course there are the lifestyle and environmental factors which shape us throughout our lives, especially when we're young.
So I believe that it may be a unique combination of predisposition and environment, both nature and nurture.

(in reply to WestBaySlave)

Post #: 14

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 3:16:54 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I am curious.I am a submissive.I have been submissive toward's Women since I was very young.I have questioned my own submission.Was I normal?I even talked to therapists about it.I got different answer's based upon their own view's.

With the debate going on in LGBT community about nature vs choice,I was wondering.Is the BDSM lifestlye a choice or are we born this way?

I didn't read any of the other responses yet Charles but I don't believe that there is an argument in the gay community, it's pretty much ascertained that it is nature not nurture, aka not a choice. Just saying. Like being sexually wired one way or the other, could you choose to be dominant?

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 15

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 3:23:00 PM

Aynne88

Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MMercurial

haha

Funny question!

Alot of people here were abused, sexually or otherwise, by parents, relatives, teachers, babysitters, neighbors, etc., when they were children.

They didn't have a choice!!!!!

malesurvivor.org

I am so sorry that you were abused as a child, but I am submissive to my man and I had not even one inkling of abuse as a child, I have a wonderful childhood and a very stable parenting situation. My mom and dad just celebrated their 46th anniversary and if they knew the things I enjoyed they would be horrified. Please don't project or make assumptions, I am just kinky and like being in a relationship where I have a dominant man that makes the decisions. I have seen as many if not more cases of abused people in unhealthy vanilla relationships than I have here.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)

(in reply to MMercurial)

Post #: 16

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 4:51:17 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88
I didn't read any of the other responses yet Charles but I don't believe that there is an argument in the gay community, it's pretty much ascertained that it is nature not nurture, aka not a choice. Just saying. Like being sexually wired one way or the other, could you choose to be dominant?

Aynne, I'm finding that you and I agree on a heck of a lot of topics lately. I had skimmed the thread until I came across your reply, which is very much the way I see the subject as well. As far as I know, this isn't a debate in the GLBT community, as a high percentage of folks that I'm connected to honestly do believe that it is nature, while accepting that there are cases out there where nurture has a role. If anything, it's another community that tries to pull the nurture debate, but that could get the whole thread thrown to Politics and Religion. The nurture argument used to get used at a time to prevent homosexual couples from adopting, which was absolutely baseless in fact and thankfully is no longer the case.

OP, I don't think that D/s or S/m is an exact parallel to the gay community. It's close in some ways, but not precise. I tend to think most kinky folks are that way by nature, but there are enough who acquire the interest later or are converted that it leads Me to say that it isn't a case of 'born that way or not at all'. I'm what often gets termed a 'later in life' Dominant Myself. I'm an even later in life sadist. It works the other way around too, in My experience. I know people who had interest in all of this all of their lives and then went vanilla.

I don't think we're ever going to be able to put everybody in the same box when it comes to the subject. I also don't think we need to try.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Aynne88)

Post #: 17

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 5:23:01 PM

Capndependable

Posts: 24
Joined: 12/11/2010
Status: offline

There are as many reasons out there as there are people.

Each one got to where they are by a little different road.. None of them are wrong.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 18

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 5:39:57 PM

poise

Posts: 9509
Joined: 7/3/2010
Status: offline

Who's to say if it's in our blood, or simply a choice we make to pursue this lifestyle.
In either case, we would still have the option of accepting or denying ourselves the joy.
I'm all for options.

_____________________________

When the path ignites a soul, there’s no remaining in place.

(in reply to Capndependable)

Post #: 19

RE: Is BDSM a choice or are we born this way? - 12/19/2010 5:44:00 PM

gungadin09

Posts: 3232
Joined: 3/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

I am curious.I am a submissive.I have been submissive toward's Women since I was very young.I have questioned my own submission.Was I normal?I even talked to therapists about it.I got different answer's based upon their own view's.

With the debate going on in LGBT community about nature vs choice,I was wondering.Is the BDSM lifestlye a choice or are we born this way?

In my case it's a little of both. I think i had a genetic predisposition that was acted on by external factors in my environment, to trigger this behavior. If i had had different parents, been born with a different temperament, i might not be here. If my childhood experiences had been different, i might not be here. i'm not saying that's good or bad. But i think it was both, not either, or.

i think the question is comparable to asking whether serial killers are born or made. (Not that i'm comparing kinksters to serial killers!) i've heard that serial killers usually have one or more of the following traits: mental illness, childhood abuse, and/or a head injury. However, there are many people who have these traits and don't become serial killers. The same thing applies to BDSM. i believe that it is the complex interaction between nature and nurture that brings this stuff out in us, rather than exclusively one or the other.

pam

(in reply to Charles6682)

Post #: 20

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