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Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:18:56 AM   
NINASHARP


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline 		Okay,  I've received many requests from searching submissives, who live hundreds and even thousands of miles away.  So I bring up the question, after reading many forums, and many profiles and information of those with different attitudes and I wonder how can you serve from afar?

There are people here on CM whom claim to be dom/sub, Master/Mistress,  that have actually never had a real time experience in their life as of yet, but yet they state opinions as if they are authorities on any given subject.  

Something that also really boogles me is how many are owned/or owners, yet never met there sub/slave, Mistress/Master in real time. I understand the dynamics of LD relationships, that there are those who meet as often as they can, and connect on phone and computer, when they can't.  That isn't what I'm talking about, I 'm talkig about those who say they are in a committed relationship or want to be, yet only on the computer and phone? How is one suppose to take it seriously if there is no option for meeting in reality?

Until then,
MistressNINA

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:28:09 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Nina, I often wonder the same thing. It boggles my mind.

(in reply to NINASHARP)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:29:00 AM   
babygirlangel


Posts: 110
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		i have no r/l experience to speak of... ( not technically true, but close enough ).
i know that a lot of Dom/mes and sub/slaves are already in relationships.... this means that unless they want to leave, or injure the existing relationship, there really isnt much of an option for them other than online or phone.
personally speaking i would prefer real life, but i know that it isnt alway possible and for those like the ones mentioned above, it can be just as committed as r/t. the feelings ( emotions ) can be just as real and intense( depending on whether you accept that or not ) as they can be face to face, sometimes more. 
If however, you need the actual touch to complete the relationship, it doesnt compare.  Now as i said, i have little experience... and this IS my opinion... smiles...

_____________________________

Because of you, I find it hard to trust not only me, but everyone around me, Because of you I am afraid...

(in reply to NINASHARP)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:32:54 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		For me cybering is fantasy, it is up to others to define it as they want. I don't see how a relationship is anything other than an illusion without looking someone in the eyes.

I've had one online relationship and I wasn't looking for that. Much to the chargrin of my so called partner, I did call it an illusion but changed my attitude because of her reaction. However, she eventually proved to me it was an illusion all along.

Online is fluff but can unfortunately be very distressing because ones emotions can be fooled into believing there is something real about an online relationship.

Never again. It is as unsatisfying and about as nourishing as candy floss.

(in reply to NINASHARP)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:34:21 AM   
darq


Posts: 443
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: under a rock
Status: offline 		I often feel that the flesh gets in the way in a lot of relationships.

Some of the emotionally closest and most fullfilling relationships I've ever had, I experienced *before* I went real time. I don't 'cyber' ... So the entire relationship was about how it felt to surrender ... I was with this particular Dominant for 2 years and I actually learned a lot about the mindset of a submissive during that time although I won't be so stupid as to say that I learned much of anything about the physical aspects of BDSM play.

We had to be more creative, I guess. There wasn't the option of tying me up and letting me feel the physical pull of his will. He had to inspire those feelings in other ways. I would sometimes be given assignments to complete and I had to keep a journal every day that he would read. I'm not sure how to explain it except to say that it worked for us and it felt right.

_____________________________

So you found a girl who thinks really deep thoughts ...
Tell me, whats so amazing about really deep thoughts?

I speak my mind because it hurts to bite my tongue.

(in reply to babygirlangel)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:38:59 AM   
Halcyone


Posts: 93
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		It's possible to serve long-distance. It takes imagination, patience, planning and strict honesty (all things that face to face relationships require too, come to think of it!), but it is possible.  Sir and I have a long-distance relationship. It has helped that we're both writers, and have made an extra effort and commitment to communicate, but the connection we've established with each other is very much real.

As for how it's possible to serve over distance...no, I can't curl at his feet and wait for him to order me to fetch him a drink. But I can assist him with research for his job, I can help with planning and ordering his day and mine (at his request of course) and by doing everything else he asks of me, in play and out.

Do I think our relationship will be much improved by being together in the flesh? Yes. Being apart from him is an ache in me, every single day that we've been together (and we're coming up on a year now). I expect that once we are together physically, there will be new challenges to cope with, different from those distance has handed us. On the other hand, the discipline and creativity that's been required in finding ways to explore our relationship as Sir and miss over that year has gone a long way towards strengthening our bond. It is very difficult but it also very possible to serve at a distance.

(in reply to NINASHARP)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:45:55 AM   
NINASHARP


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halcyone

It's possible to serve long-distance. It takes imagination, patience, planning and strict honesty (all things that face to face relationships require too, come to think of it!), but it is possible.  Sir and I have a long-distance relationship. It has helped that we're both writers, and have made an extra effort and commitment to communicate, but the connection we've established with each other is very much real.

As for how it's possible to serve over distance...no, I can't curl at his feet and wait for him to order me to fetch him a drink. But I can assist him with research for his job, I can help with planning and ordering his day and mine (at his request of course) and by doing everything else he asks of me, in play and out.

Do I think our relationship will be much improved by being together in the flesh? Yes. Being apart from him is an ache in me, every single day that we've been together (and we're coming up on a year now). I expect that once we are together physically, there will be new challenges to cope with, different from those distance has handed us. On the other hand, the discipline and creativity that's been required in finding ways to explore our relationship as Sir and miss over that year has gone a long way towards strengthening our bond. It is very difficult but it also very possible to serve at a distance.



My question is not about a Long Distance relationship.  A year over cyber? And you ache for someone you have yet to meet? I don't understand this illusion of serving your sir, serving someone who could be a teenager, or a prison inmate, maybe.  How are you so certain he is who he claims to be. Can you really trust someone completely until you meet them in person.  Maybe my eyes are failing, but have you met in the year you are serving your sir? 


(in reply to Halcyone)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:48:06 AM   
NINASHARP


Posts: 295
Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darq

I often feel that the flesh gets in the way in a lot of relationships.

Some of the emotionally closest and most fullfilling relationships I've ever had, I experienced *before* I went real time. I don't 'cyber' ... So the entire relationship was about how it felt to surrender ... I was with this particular Dominant for 2 years and I actually learned a lot about the mindset of a submissive during that time although I won't be so stupid as to say that I learned much of anything about the physical aspects of BDSM play.

We had to be more creative, I guess. There wasn't the option of tying me up and letting me feel the physical pull of his will. He had to inspire those feelings in other ways. I would sometimes be given assignments to complete and I had to keep a journal every day that he would read. I'm not sure how to explain it except to say that it worked for us and it felt right.


You served a dominant two years, but only in cyber?  Is that correct? What happened to keep it from going beyond that and into reality?

(in reply to darq)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:48:50 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Well I know that this will probably not set well with some but I just can not wrap my head around the concept of an online (or on phone) D/s or M/s relationship...and those that say they have an online BDSM relationship boggle my mind even more. I kind of liken it to a roleplaying game. You can be an avid player of say...Dungeons and Dragons. You can faithfully get together with all of your other friends and opponents. You can totally immerse yourself in your character while you are there. But in the end...just because you slayed a Dragon during the course of your play...it doesn't really make you a Dragonslayer now does it?

Yes, I realize that for some people it works and that for some people it is all they can have...but to set it side by side and compare it with someone who is actively serving, day in and day out....someone who is actually playing on a regular basis.....no, I'm sorry but I just can not see the two as being anything even close to the same thing.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to NINASHARP)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:51:49 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP

My question is not about a Long Distance relationship.  A year over cyber? And you ache for someone you have yet to meet? I don't understand this illusion of serving your sir, serving someone who could be a teenager, or a prison inmate, maybe.  How are you so certain he is who he claims to be. Can you really trust someone completely until you meet them in person.  Maybe my eyes are failing, but have you met in the year you are serving your sir? 



This is precisely my thought and experience. There was the fool that was me that started to take the whole thing serious because she said it was real. She was who she said she was, that I am sure but her honesty and integrity were not what she professed it to be. That I found out too late having made some silly decisions.

I would warn anyone involved in cybering, you might know some facts but you really don't know anything of consequence about the person you are dealing with. I would never have thought the woman I was dealing with was capable of what she did.

(in reply to NINASHARP)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 6:58:40 AM   
artglfr


Posts: 235
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline 		A very good question, I have thought about this and wondered "how does one really know who they are relating to? A homophobic male sub may be "Worshipping" the Mistress of his dreams...a crossdressing man...and never know. a submissive female may be "serving" a man or a woman or both and never have a clue.


While I personally prefer the real sub there before me, I think that for many the "Fantasy" far exceeds the reality. It may be only me but i have had experiences where the Reality really was a let down and never seemed to live up to what i had expected.

Perhaps some do not wish to meet personally as they may have been in bad relationships and online ones seem easier to leave.

Still a very good question.

_____________________________

Kink Forever
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Docents_of_Museum/

(in reply to NINASHARP)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 7:07:11 AM   
rapture2778


Posts: 53
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline 		i had a "relationship" once with a Dom that lived on the other side of the US from me, we talked on the phone and online a lot, (it was always with the intention of meeting one day) well many months later when we did meet, i was (and probably him too) disappointed...i had "built" up such a fantasy in my head of how it was going to be that NO reality would even come close to providing that....i think that some people just need an escape from reality and that is there way to get it, they just want the fantasy of it without it ever getting to reality....it didn't work for me, but i guess it works for others....

(in reply to artglfr)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 7:09:38 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Online relationships are the most perfect form imaginable.  They are always like a first date, you never see the dirty underwear,  the dishes piled up in the sink, the unpaid bills on the dinning room table, the empty pizza boxes spilled across the dinning room floor, and you never ever seem him fucking the neighborhood floozy.

They are perfect, only problem is they are not real.  You put your best foot forward and the other person projects all the missing pieces exactly as they want.  So, you each create a fantasy of what the other person really is like.

In my opinion, they are horribly destructive for this very reason, real flesh and blood, give and take, relationships are very hard work and instead of dealing with a person you have created in your mind you are dealing with someone in the flesh in, in all their glory and misury.

If you can't find people to meet in real life, create a group, the internet makes it easy.  There are perverts everywhere, heck I meet a girl every few months who is kinky, my coffee shop has  a couple, I have them in classes, and women are harder to find than men so you have it a lot easier.

www.soj.org
www.tes.org

Two lists of groups, start looking...


(in reply to artglfr)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 7:14:09 AM   
Halcyone


Posts: 93
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP
My question is not about a Long Distance relationship.  A year over cyber? And you ache for someone you have yet to meet? I don't understand this illusion of serving your sir, serving someone who could be a teenager, or a prison inmate, maybe.  How are you so certain he is who he claims to be. Can you really trust someone completely until you meet them in person.  Maybe my eyes are failing, but have you met in the year you are serving your sir?


A year online, yes. We've also used the phone, pictures and webcams but our primary method of correspondance has been text-based. We have not yet met in person although that will happen soon. I can be certain he is who he claims to be because I have seen him and talked to him and we've taken the time to get to know each other. Could he have lied through this? Yes. Are there people who manage to lie for so long over distance? Yes. Am I worried he won't be who he's portrayed himself to be when we finally have our chance to be together? No.

For some people, going online is a way of adopting a mask. It is a fantasy for them because they can become whatever or whoever they want to be. For others, it's a way of removing those masks. We've been fortunate to discover in each other that we're the latter sort.

You believe all online relationships are illusion and I'm telling you that this one isn't. You don't have to believe me, to take my word for it. You don't know me, or my Sir, and don't have a window into our relationship to see that it is real for us. I understand that making that leap into understanding is difficult as a result. But it is possible. We've done it.

Please also note that I never compared my relationship with Sir to in-the-flesh relationships. There is no comparison to be made because they're entirely different beasts. I don't claim experience I don't have. However, that doesn't mean I can't and don't serve him. To say it isn't possible...I tend to see that in the same light as someone saying you need to wear leather and chain in order to be a proper BDSMer. What we have has worked for us so far; it is a power exchange dynamic, if not one that is understood or recognized by others.

Edit - Why do I never catch the typos before I hit OK? So much for being good at this online thing.


< Message edited by Halcyone -- 4/30/2006 7:33:37 AM >

(in reply to NINASHARP)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 7:24:56 AM   
MstrFury


Posts: 77
Joined: 2/1/2006
Status: offline 		it would be rather presumptious and just plain arogant on my part to believe in person is the only way.....but since this is about opinion....mine would be...all roads..be they computer..phone..snail mail even...should lead to one destination....meeting and being with that ONE......I do take into consideration...some are more comfortable with an online relationship....and if they find fulfillment in that...it's their life and how they choose to live it.....Fantasy vs Reality.....some are better off serving in their cyber worlds....as reality may not be all it's cracked up to be.......works both ways....we can all be super Doms/Masters/slaves and submissives on line.....it's kinda like that day in day out thing...that seperates...the wheat from the chaft......just my opinion though...others may vary with mileage....

pulling my cloak around me and stepping back into the shadows

_____________________________

Fury

(in reply to NINASHARP)
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RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 7:25:58 AM   
OTKkindaGirl


Posts: 447
Joined: 12/26/2005
From: NW Arkansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP

 I wonder how can you serve from afar?  if trust is truly established in a cyber and phone relationships, orders given and obeyed then how can it be considered fantasy.  there are creative ways to reward and punish but the trust in each others integrity and honor have to be well established.  i say this because the very first dom that i took the time to get to know online should have turned r/t and didnt'.  i got stood up at the last minute and trust was broken but it did not make my experience any less than it was.  i wasn't serving him physically but rather mentally and emotionally. here it is almost three years later and now and then he will call to check on me.  He honestly did teach me quite a bit about submission as a slave, protocol, how to establish relationships (he's into poly), and some things that now with experience i don't quite agree with, but that has come with experience.  He said he was a real dom, and i still believe that he is, if not he is very well informed.  This didn't make me any less submissive in my nature.  He may have broken my trust but he did not break my respect.  i guess i refer to him as a mentor now. 

There are people here on CM whom claim to be dom/sub, Master/Mistress,  that have actually never had a real time experience in their life as of yet, but yet they state opinions as if they are authorities on any given subject.   i am not much of an authority on any subject except when it comes to my kids.
 
disclaimer**  opinions posted by me are based on humble experiences and are subject to change at any given time based on new experiences.  differences in opinion in regards to my own are subject to reconsideration.   side effects may include but are not  limited to sudden perspiration, dizziness, increase in heartrate, nervousness, insomnia, dizziness, nausea and/or vomiting.



_____________________________

~~ lil darlin' ~~
hope



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Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 7:31:46 AM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I can only see cybering as a temporary bridge to real.

(in reply to NINASHARP)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 7:51:32 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Reasonable
I can only see cybering as a temporary bridge to real.


I agree that online is a perfectly valid way to begin the process of getting to know someone. I also agree that for those who only want online....well, whatever works for you is fine. Where I have a problem with the whole thing is when people assume that their online relationship is the same as the reality of being in a D/s, M/s relationship in real time....especially if it is going to involve aspects of BDSM.

Too often I have seen people with no real time experience invest a great deal of time, emotion, effort and finance...sometimes for periods of years....only to find out that when they cross that bridge into reality that their illusion of what it would be is shattered and the relationship at that point fails.

It is entirely different to fantasize about being in complete service to someone and an utterly different thing to actually do it. It is an entirely different feeling to long to be in the bondage of another than it is to experience the feeling that comes when that last restraint clicks shut and you realize that you are now at the complete will of another....not just in bonds of your own making on a web cam where you leave one hand free to type or spank yourself for him to see. There is no amount of talking or typing in the world that can prepare you for the physical sensation of that whip biting into your real flesh. There is no way to prepare you to willingingly accept pain that is doled out at the level of his discretion in comparison to the level you can take yourself to for his viewing pleasure. Not trying to piss anyone off here...but I contend that until you have some real time experience under your belt, what you have is but an illusion of what you think the reality will be like.

Edited because I need more coffee to spell correctly

< Message edited by mistoferin -- 4/30/2006 7:53:50 AM >

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Reasonable)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 7:54:44 AM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		Seems that we are in accord mist.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Cybering in the scene. - 4/30/2006 8:02:00 AM   
Wulfchyld


Posts: 2618
Joined: 12/7/2005
Status: offline 		Micro webcam basic; 15-20 bucks. With forward lightening it works really well. Through communicating via chat or e-mail we get a good look into the mind of the other. A cam gives you a little more. You get to look at the other person and see their emotions. If you are into a structured M/s lifestyle, like Gorean, a cam is a great training tool for poses and serves and such. I have a cam and use it. However the slave has to build up to that, I am not here to play M/s games and only cam with someone I seriously want to know or with friends.
 
Smiling
Loki


_____________________________

Loki, forum god of Mischief

Submission is not a gift... it is plunder!
Where there is a whip, there is a way!
Dom/mes of a feather, beat the f*ck out of slaves together


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 20
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