Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/28/2010 7:22:36 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


I rubbished your claims that the Irish crisis was "strictly a [local] banking crisis", and had nothing to do with "tax policy", which I have have kindly outlined above in bold print for you, just in case you have forgotten them.



Speak English please. I didnt forget anything. What you quoted if mine is 100% correct.Your obfuscation wont work. Go ahead and find ANYTHING that says that Ireland's pro-business environment and corporate tax structure had ANYTHING to do with the current problems, as you claimed. Until you do, STFU.

Wrong on Israel, wrong on Ireland, wrong on Islam. About time you made some asinine claim about Iceland I guess.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 12/28/2010 7:25:10 PM >


_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/28/2010 11:53:38 PM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline
quote:

Willbeurdaddy
What you quoted if mine is 100% correct..


Wow! If Willbe100%rightalways said it, then it must be "100% correct"!^ At last, a rock of absolute certainty in an ever-changing uncertain universe! I could be so willing for that!

And here was silly me thinking that the messianic tone that characterises His Wilfulness' posts was an attempt to hide the glaring absence of substance, that the self righteous bombast was there to divert attention from the lack of supporting evidence.

When all the time I was in the presence of a Being with such astonishing, God-like powers of prescience ….. Just goes to show I guess!

Pondering my fate as I quaked and shivered in the wake of such a quasi-Divine revelation, I wondered if I was to be condemned to Willpurgatory for an eternity. I’m able to report that I stoically resisted the urge to throw myself onto my knees abjectly and beg Your Cosmic forgiveness and indulgence for my errant wilfulness. Instead my mind, nay, my entire consciousness was flooded with but a single radiant image......

The image, from Monty Python’s "Life of Brian”, was Mary’s response to the insistence of a credulous rabble that her son Brian was truly the Messiah. And her immortal words were:

“He’s not the Messiah! He’s just a vewy naughty boy!”

Hallelujah! Praise the Willy!*


^ The Book of Will, Post # 61
*no wilful pun and no matter what you think, definitely not that willy!


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/28/2010 11:56:53 PM >


_____________________________



(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 12:41:13 AM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline


FR

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Go ahead and find ANYTHING that says that Ireland's pro-business environment and corporate tax structure had ANYTHING to do with the current problems, ...




Hmm, I think I just saw something recently on that ...

Oh yeah, here it is:

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

"But the most striking similarity between Ireland and America was “regulatory imprudence”: the people charged with keeping banks safe didn’t do their jobs. In Ireland, regulators looked the other way in part because the country was trying to attract foreign business, in part because of cronyism: bankers and property developers had close ties to the ruling party. "




Regulators looking the other way is part and parcel of a pro-business environment by most accounts, as the above report indicates.

But what is that "cronyism" thing he's talking about? Is that something like when the CEO of an oil services company leaves the firm to become the VP of a country that is about to enter into a venture resulting in a huge no-bid contract award to that company, or like when the CEO of an investment bank leaves the firm to become the treasury secretary of a country that is about to cover the rigged bets his company made, or something like that? That all sounds pretty pro-business to me, so should be considered a good thing.

Whatever that country is, I think it would be considered about the most pro-business country in the world by any estimation. And it being that the more pro-business country is, the better, I bet that country is doing great all the time-  low deficit, low unemployment, the whole nine yards.












< Message edited by Edwynn -- 12/29/2010 12:57:58 AM >

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 2:36:01 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline
In this thread: a bunch of people who don't understand how money works.

If billionaires buy luxury items - or locks and fences - or throw insane parties - they are putting that money back into circulation. When they spend too much money on stupid mushrooms, they are making the mushroom growers and everyone else the growers pay money to happier.

If, however, they save their billions, then they cause deflation. Less money in circulation means all money is worth more.

Past a certain point, there's no way they can lose money the way the system is set up, except to invest poorly or give a shit ton away. America has means of allowing money to work for you; which is why wealth gets concentrated, money attracts more money. That's not a bad thing.

The rich in America face a dilemma: how can you truly contribute back to society? Give your money away the wrong way, and you can cause more havoc and damnation than just keeping it. Invest money in infrastructure and social causes, you must monitor those investments; thieves and scoundrels are literally everywhere. And if there's one thing rich people are hungry to retain, it's their time. Further, anything you attempt to grow, be it a person, an institution or an idea, you take the risk of unhealthy growth; building a house of cards, or dependence on you, or opportunity costs.

Some rich people do this. Some buy truffles. But bottom line motherfuckers, capitalism still works as long as both rich and poor have true freedom to act, and not just in name. Capitalism stops working when institutions restrict freedoms; which is why busting up monopolies is a good thing, most of the time.

_____________________________

bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

"The role of gender in society is the most complicated thing I’ve ever spent a lot of time learning about, and I’ve spent a lot of time learning about quantum mechanics." - Randall Munroe

(in reply to Edwynn)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 4:55:34 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slave4bull

Strange....I don't see any "...and so a huge factory was built in Ohio, with the goal of employing thousands of blue collar workers who, thanks to Republicans, have all lost their jobs."  LOL!!  No,only tea party retards belive that giving billionaires more money yet will result in MORE JOBS!! Those of us with brains know that they will spend their money, gained on the backs of the rest of us on....truffles.
And Happy Holidays, Merry Xmans, etc to all:)

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/111682/the-years-biggest-luxury-buys



Sounds like someone wants to dictate what people buy.   Where it is anyone's business I just don't know.  

(in reply to slave4bull)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 4:49:32 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


It's not a question of turning a profit. They can do that. Offshoring is all about maximizing profit. The notion that the sole function of a corporation is to maximize the return on investment for shareholders has become so ingrained that many people believe that it is against the law for a corporation NOT to do so.



It is against the law to not act in the best interests of the shareholders. If their best interests are served by maximizing current profits, that it would be illegal to not do so.

Uh-huh. What law would that be?


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 5:43:01 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline
The free market should be fair.If all it does is make the rich become richer and the poor become poorer,then forget about it.Yes,the government does have a role in regulating the market.We dont need a bunch of elistists bringing down the entire American economy so a few elistists can have their golden parachutes on the back of the true working people.Call it whatever you want,who really cares.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 12/29/2010 5:44:21 PM >


_____________________________

Charley aka Sub Guy

http://www.Facebook.com/SubGuy

https://Twitter.com/SubGuy6682

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 6:15:11 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


It's not a question of turning a profit. They can do that. Offshoring is all about maximizing profit. The notion that the sole function of a corporation is to maximize the return on investment for shareholders has become so ingrained that many people believe that it is against the law for a corporation NOT to do so.



It is against the law to not act in the best interests of the shareholders. If their best interests are served by maximizing current profits, that it would be illegal to not do so.

Uh-huh. What law would that be?



A whole body of state and Federal fiduciary laws.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 6:35:56 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
"Ok........how do you explain the fact that the tax rate in the late 50's and early 60's was 85% for the top income brackets?"

Nominal. As opposed to "actual" or "effective".

Strange that anyone can think high taxes can create jobs

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 12/29/2010 6:42:32 PM >


_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to slave4bull2)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 6:46:49 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

"Ok........how do you explain the fact that the tax rate in the late 50's and early 60's was 85% for the top income brackets?"

Nominal. As opposed to "actual" or "effective.

Strange that anyone can think high taxes can create jobs


Ahhhh, those were the days. Deduct sales tax, deduct credit card interest, non-recourse loans for depreciating assets. Too bad I was broke and homeless for most of those years!

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 6:53:09 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


It's not a question of turning a profit. They can do that. Offshoring is all about maximizing profit. The notion that the sole function of a corporation is to maximize the return on investment for shareholders has become so ingrained that many people believe that it is against the law for a corporation NOT to do so.



It is against the law to not act in the best interests of the shareholders. If their best interests are served by maximizing current profits, that it would be illegal to not do so.

Uh-huh. What law would that be?



A whole body of state and Federal fiduciary laws.
Uh-huh. Where in the US Code would this be?


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 6:56:10 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
"if you raise taxes for them, they will simply get out of the country "

The economically ignorant do not realize that both money and skills (medical expertise, e.g.) are highly mobile.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to LadyConstanze)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 6:57:16 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


It's not a question of turning a profit. They can do that. Offshoring is all about maximizing profit. The notion that the sole function of a corporation is to maximize the return on investment for shareholders has become so ingrained that many people believe that it is against the law for a corporation NOT to do so.



It is against the law to not act in the best interests of the shareholders. If their best interests are served by maximizing current profits, that it would be illegal to not do so.

Uh-huh. What law would that be?



A whole body of state and Federal fiduciary laws.
Uh-huh. Where in the US Code would this be?



Federal fiduciary law relates to specific transactions, state law to general director and corporate officer's fiduciary obligations.

google is your friend. try "duty of care" and "duty of loyalty",

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 7:01:00 PM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
Brevity. Wit.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 8:22:32 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

A whole body of state and Federal fiduciary laws.


How about  if you indulge us and post a few of those.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 12/29/2010 8:31:17 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/29/2010 8:25:42 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Federal fiduciary law relates to specific transactions, state law to general director and corporate officer's fiduciary obligations.

google is your friend. try "duty of care" and "duty of loyalty",


It's your friend as well Willbeur, especially since you made the claim.

The burden of proof is on you.

So show the proof.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/30/2010 12:16:18 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


It's not a question of turning a profit. They can do that. Offshoring is all about maximizing profit. The notion that the sole function of a corporation is to maximize the return on investment for shareholders has become so ingrained that many people believe that it is against the law for a corporation NOT to do so.



It is against the law to not act in the best interests of the shareholders. If their best interests are served by maximizing current profits, that it would be illegal to not do so.

Uh-huh. What law would that be?



A whole body of state and Federal fiduciary laws.

Said laws are largely ignored in My personal experience.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/31/2010 4:53:12 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Federal fiduciary law relates to specific transactions, state law to general director and corporate officer's fiduciary obligations.

google is your friend. try "duty of care" and "duty of loyalty",


It's your friend as well Willbeur, especially since you made the claim.

The burden of proof is on you.

So show the proof.

Just one citation of a law, Wilbur, Fed or state. Here's what you said:"It is against the law to not act in the best interests of the shareholders. If their best interests are served by maximizing current profits, that it would be illegal to not do so."

Just one citation of the US Code or a state code, wilbur.




_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/31/2010 4:58:35 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


It's not a question of turning a profit. They can do that. Offshoring is all about maximizing profit. The notion that the sole function of a corporation is to maximize the return on investment for shareholders has become so ingrained that many people believe that it is against the law for a corporation NOT to do so.



It is against the law to not act in the best interests of the shareholders. If their best interests are served by maximizing current profits, that it would be illegal to not do so.

Uh-huh. What law would that be?



A whole body of state and Federal fiduciary laws.

Said laws are largely ignored in My personal experience.


Your "personal experience" is bullshit. Tell it to Ken Lay and J Clifford Baxter.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on - 12/31/2010 5:37:39 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Federal fiduciary law relates to specific transactions, state law to general director and corporate officer's fiduciary obligations.

google is your friend. try "duty of care" and "duty of loyalty",


As you wish. I googled "Do shareholders have a duty to maximize profits?"
and in 0.11 seconds found this:

In a recent speech at the Netroots Nation, Senator Al Franken tried to frighten the crowd by trotting out the corporate bogeyman that greedily makes decisions without regard to anything other than profit. Franken told them: “it is literally malfeasance for a corporation not to do everything it legally can to maximize its profits.” Individuals across the political spectrum share this common canard. Those on the right, like Milton Friedman, argue that the shareholder-wealth-maximization requirement prohibits firms from acting in ways that benefit, say, local communities or the environment, at the expense of the bottom line. Those on the left, like Franken, argue that the duty to shareholders makes corporations untrustworthy and dangerous. They are both wrong.

While the duty to maximize shareholder value may be a useful shorthand for a corporate manager to think about how to act on a day to day basis, this is not legally required or enforceable. The only constraint on board decision making is a pair of duties – the “duty of care” and the “duty of loyalty.” The duty of care requires boards to be well informed and to make deliberate decisions after careful consideration of the issues. Importantly, board members are entitled to rely on experts and corporate officers for their information, can easily comply with duty of care obligations by spending shareholder money on lawyers and process, and, in any event, are routinely indemnified against damages for any breaches of this duty. The duty of loyalty self evidently requires board members to put the interests of the corporation ahead of their own personal interest.

Under this legal regime, it is not malfeasance for boards or corporate chiefs to make decisions that do not maximize shareholder value. Boards are protected by the so-called “business judgment rule” from claims that their decisions were the wrong ones. The business judgment rule protects corporate decisions unless the plaintiffs can show a breach of one of the two duties. In other words, unless there is a plausible story the board’s decision was woefully uninformed or was tainted by self interest, a shareholder challenge to a corporate decision will fail.

The business judgment rule means that decisions that turn out badly for firms are protected. This encourages risk taking and avoids the hindsight bias of litigation in cases where well-meaning and rational decisions do not maximize shareholder value. It also gives boards wiggle room to take more than just profit into consideration when setting corporate policy. As such, firms can tailor their decisions to the demands of the marketplace. One company might believe that employees, customers, and shareholders (the three big constituencies of any firm) prefer a decision to keep open a more expensive factory in Michigan, while another company might believe these stakeholders prefer a decision to move its manufacturing base to Mexico. Both are lawful.
Posted by Todd Henderson on July 27, 2010



Maybe it is because I am an asshole, but I thought it amusing that Wilbeur and Al Franken were saying the same thing.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 80
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: what those billionaires are spending $$ on Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 [4] 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094