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RE: Islam and illogic - 12/28/2010 7:44:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Are you saying many

quote:

Here's a few


Point is, it came as a surprise to most.


It was MY point. I said that there were people that saw it coming before Ronald Reagan was president so to give him credit for winning the Cold War is ridiculous.



Did you read any of the articles you cited? Do you understand the factors that they attribute the SU's problems too? Do you realize that it was Reagan who took advantage of those factors, unlike any other POTUS before him?

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RE: Islam and illogic - 12/28/2010 8:10:20 PM   
lickenforyou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: lickenforyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Are you saying many

quote:

Here's a few


Point is, it came as a surprise to most.


It was MY point. I said that there were people that saw it coming before Ronald Reagan was president so to give him credit for winning the Cold War is ridiculous.



Did you read any of the articles you cited? Do you understand the factors that they attribute the SU's problems too? Do you realize that it was Reagan who took advantage of those factors, unlike any other POTUS before him?


Can you explain how he did that? What he did, I mean, exactly.


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RE: Islam and illogic - 12/28/2010 9:35:04 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
I don't give a monkeys nuts who says otherwise, Islamaphobic is an unfounded dread and dislike of Muslims, which results in practices of exclusion and discrimination and if that's not racist then the word racist doesn't exist.

It's not racist because Islam is a religion not a race. A more accurate term for Islamaphobia is bigotry.

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 2:28:57 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
I don't give a monkeys nuts who says otherwise, Islamaphobic is an unfounded dread and dislike of Muslims, which results in practices of exclusion and discrimination and if that's not racist then the word racist doesn't exist.

It's not racist because Islam is a religion not a race. A more accurate term for Islamaphobia is bigotry.



A phobia is when the fear is beyond one's control. Its an irrational fear.
A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from their own or intolerant of people of different ethnicity, race, class, religion, sexual orientation or gender.
Racism...According to the United Nations, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnicity discrimination.
An ethnic group (or ethnicity) is a group of people whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage, often consisting of a common language, a common culture often including a shared religion.

Therefore, no matter how much Wikipedia tamper the word 'racism' down. It actually swings back round to meaning the same thing.

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RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 4:30:50 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


That's debatable.
I'd have a lot more sympathy for this argument that the Ottoman empire was the last repository for the dregs of the Roman Empire if the fuckers hadn't first destroyed the eastern Empire and burned the library at Alexandria.



quote:

Julius Caesar accidentally burned the library down when he set fire to his own ships to frustrate Achillas' attempt to limit his ability to communicate by sea.[2] Edward Gibbon describes how the daughter library was also destroyed by Theophilus, Bishop of Alexandria, who ordered the destruction of the Serapeum in 391.


It was a CHRISTIAN Bishop of Alexandria that burned the library the second time it was burned, NOT the Muslims, Ottoman's or any other non-christian group you may want to blame.

It is a sad fact that the teaching of history is sorely lacking in American Schools... Unless of course you actually go to college and study history under a prof that believes that the truth should be taught over political correctness.

As a matter of fact, four separate dates are suggested for the destruction, and no one account tends to get cited as being definitive. It's quite possible that more than one of the accounts took place as there were at least three libraries in Alexandria and they weren't necessarily all destroyed at the same time. There's that story about Mark Anthony plundering the library at Pergaon as a replacement for the one Caesar supposedly destroyed, for a start.
What is clear though, is that pretty much all of the medieval Arabic historians claim responsibility for at least one of the big bonfires. Whether this was purely to endear themselves to Saladin (who was an enthusiastic book burner himself) is unclear, but if Gibbon accepts it as a possibility, then it can't really be ruled out completely, can it?
(edited for clarity and to fix a transposition)

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 12/29/2010 5:04:42 AM >

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RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 5:51:37 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

According to the United Nations, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnicity discrimination.

Oh. Well. That settles it then. We'll just throw our dictionaries away.

K.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 8:00:03 AM   
truckinslave


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Status: offline 		History vs. current events.

Islam still preaches and starts and fights religious wars.

Christianity does not.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 8:05:46 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
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Status: offline 		Don't take my word for it, take Websters?

Definition of RACISM

1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2: racial prejudice or discrimination  Perhaps you don't see the difference between racism and disapproval of violent, discriminatory, sexist, and homophobic ideology; but I do.And I am consistent. I loathe Islam and the KKK equally.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 8:13:30 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

History vs. current events.

Islam still preaches and starts and fights religious wars.

Christianity does not.

Mostly true truckin. What, though, would you call 'the troubles' in Northern Ireland except 2 Christian groups happily slaughtering each other over nothing more than Catholic vs Protestant?

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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 8:15:51 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Of all the many things that the UN is unqualified to do, defining my language ranks near the top.

Racism is not synonomous with religious or ideological dislike/disapproval/hatred.

I dislike/disapprove/hate communism. That makes me a racist? Basic language skills, dude.
The left has thrown the charge around so much it's pretty thin gruel....
And it should mean something.



_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to allthatjaz)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 8:19:31 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Is that a political conflict with a religious element, or vice versa?

In other words- if Ireland was independent, would Irish Catholics still wage war Protestants?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 8:23:03 AM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Is that a political conflict with a religious element, or vice versa?

In other words- if Ireland was independent, would Irish Catholics still wage war Protestants?

Dont know on that one. I just know that Catholics and Protestants have been happily slaughtering each other ever since the days of Martin Luther. It has, fortunately, slowed down tremendously in the last coupla decades.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 9:25:27 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

History vs. current events.

Islam still preaches and starts and fights religious wars.

Christianity does not.


You really do live in your own little happy place.  A place where reality never has to intrude on what you want to believe.



Bosnian Genocide

In 2001, the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) judged that the 1995 Srebrenica massacre was genocide.  In the unanimous ruling "Prosecutor v. Krstić", the Appeals Chamber of the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY), located in The Hague, reaffirmed that the Srebrenica massacre was genocide, the Presiding Judge Theodor Meron stating:

By seeking to eliminate a part of the Bosnian Muslims, the Bosnian Serb forces committed genocide. They targeted for extinction the forty thousand Bosnian Muslims living in Srebrenica, a group which was emblematic of the Bosnian Muslims in general. They stripped all the male Muslim prisoners, military and civilian, elderly and young, of their personal belongings and identification, and deliberately and methodically killed them solely on the basis of their identity.



Ethnic Cleansing — History.com

The phrase "ethnic cleansing" came into wide usage in the 1990s, to describe the treatment suffered by particular ethnic groups during conflicts that erupted after the disintegration of the former Yugoslavia.

After the republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina declared its independence in March 1992, Bosnian Serb forces waged a systematic campaign--including forced deportation, murder, torture and rape--to expel Bosniak (Bosnian Muslim) and Croatian civilians from territory in eastern Bosnia. This violence culminated in the massacre of as many as 8,000 Bosniak men and boys at the town of Srebrenica in July 1995.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 12/29/2010 9:28:15 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 10:15:53 AM   
lickenforyou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

History vs. current events.

Islam still preaches and starts and fights religious wars.

Christianity does not.


That's because Western civilization has taken the power out of the hands of religious leaders. Except for the occasional abortion clinic bombing or abortion doctor murder Christians are pretty impotent.


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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 10:22:03 AM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		The underlying dynamics in this area of conflict are nationalistic, not religious.

The tensions in first the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes and later in Yugoslavia was not the result of varying ethnicities hating the neighbors they had to share a country with, but rather conflicting and competing nationalisms that got in the way of each other because of structural problems in the way the unified state was constructed. Yugoslavia was simply too small for the nationalisms of its constituent ethnicities... What occurred then was a result of manipulative leaders like Ante Pavlic, Slobodan Milosevic, and Franjo Tudjman who exploited and manipulated people's nationalist leanings to gain power and prominence.

K.

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RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 10:45:16 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The underlying dynamics in this area of conflict are nationalistic, not religious.

The tensions in first the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes and later in Yugoslavia was not the result of varying ethnicities hating the neighbors they had to share a country with, but rather conflicting and competing nationalisms that got in the way of each other because of structural problems in the way the unified state was constructed. Yugoslavia was simply too small for the nationalisms of its constituent ethnicities... What occurred then was a result of manipulative leaders like Ante Pavlic, Slobodan Milosevic, and Franjo Tudjman who exploited and manipulated people's nationalist leanings to gain power and prominence.

K.

That is utterly and completely hilarious and completely predictable coming from you.

A quick history lesson, Bosnia historically consisted of 2 ethnic groups, The Orthodox Serbs and the Catholic Croats. Both groups are slavs. The group known as Bosniaks (Bosnian muslims) are people whose ancestors converted to Islam during the Ottoman period. They are not ethnically distinct from the Serbs or the Croats but are descended from either and usually from both.

The violence by the Serbs resident in Bosnia against their neighbors was entirely about religion, as it was the only distinguishing feature of those targeted. They spoke the same languages, lived in the same towns and were alike in all other ways.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 11:29:15 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
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Status: offline 		Conservative Christians are the biggest backers of war in Iraq http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1010-02.htm

Signs put on Baptist churches throughout America give out messages like this 'We support our troops and their mission — Freedom is bought with blood — thank God for the Cross!”

As far as some Christians are concerned, Iraq has been very much a Holy war and as far as the Islamic innocents who have suffered huge losses on their own soil, this is very much about the Christians versus Islam.

My question would be, why do you hate Islam? its not Islam we have been at war with but a small fraction of radical Islamic fighters who don't represent Islam as a whole.
Imagine for a moment if it had been some radical Christians who had gone over to Iraq and planted bombs, killed Iraqis and then vanished into the night. Imagine if the Iraqis were one of the worlds leading forces who then came over to America and bombed American cities night after night and day after day, week after week, month after month until everything was obliterated. All our resources are crippled, our water is contaminated, we have no access to medicine, our families have perished and we have to walk over bodies in the streets and watch mothers cradling their dead children.
Would we hate Islam then? of course we would but why do we hate Islam now?

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 12/29/2010 11:33:41 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 11:42:24 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

That is utterly and completely hilarious and completely predictable coming from you.

A quick history lesson...

Given your practice of relying on supernatural powers for your conclusions, I admit it is predictable that I would disagree with them. But there is also the detail that it didn't 'come from me' -- it came from GlobalSecurity.org -- and, of course, the additional detail that you are, as usual, wrong. The tensions were ethnic and nationalistic.

ethnic
—adj
1. relating to or characteristic of a human group having racial, religious, linguistic, and certain other traits in common

The fact that the ethnic difference in this case pertained to religious customs does not automatically make it a religious war (a quick history lesson: that's what's being disputed). The conflict was neither urged by religious preaching, nor fought in the name of religion.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/29/2010 12:41:18 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 1:37:06 PM   
hertz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Islam still preaches and starts and fights religious wars.

Christianity does not.


Utter rubbish. Islam doesn't preach anything - how can it? Islam is a set of ideas and beliefs tied together to form a religion. It can't possibly preach anything, any more than cookery can preach nutrition, or Logic can preach rationality. And as for starting and fighting a war - maybe you can explain how something with no arms and legs can start a fight?

I think maybe you mean to suggest that some of the followers of Islam interpret it in ways which support the idea of armed struggle. Now, that makes some sense. But if that is the case, then surely it is true that some followers of Christianity make exactly the same sort of connection between armed struggle and their own religion? Didn't GWB himself smite the Iraqis because he said God told him to do it?

You've got it all wrong, truckinslave. There's nothing much wrong with either Islam or Christianity as a set of ideas and principles. Where it all goes wrong is when we put people into the picture. That's when the craziness starts.

Strangely enough, when you put people in the picture, that's where the beauty of religion also begins.


< Message edited by hertz -- 12/29/2010 1:38:40 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Islam and illogic - 12/29/2010 1:37:40 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Islam still preaches and starts and fights religious wars. Christianity does not.

Some sick bastards blow up children and preach jihad in the name of Islam. Some sick bastards kill abortion doctors and celebrate the deaths of gay solders in the name of Christianity. Some sick bastards slaughter millions in the name of a political ideology. Some sick bastards commit rape and murder because it gets them off. Some sick bastards blame religions, political ideologies, or kink for the world's problems.

The common element here is sick bastards.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 12/29/2010 1:44:07 PM >

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 80
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