RE: GUNS (Full Version)

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GreedyTop -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 6:23:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Is my morality wrong ?


No, but your country is.  Live in one in which no-one's ever going to break into your house with a gun.  [;)]


Where is that? OZ?

Then ya gotta worry about them damn flying monkeys. Hmmmm a good wingshot could have fun there. [8D]


HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Termyn8or -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 6:33:17 AM)

Kill them with what ?

T



gungadin09 -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 6:46:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

yay Aynne!

(and I notice there hasnt been any comment on the stats I posted earlier, from anyone.. unless I missed soemthing.. )


Okay, i'll comment. A 98% drop in crime is impressive, although the guy they interviewed (Jones) said that Kennesaw did not have a big problem with crime before the law, and that the drop in crime could not be completely attributed to the law. He also apparently said the drop in crime was not the law's purpose, and the article hints that it might have been done merely as a publicity stunt. Nevertheless, the reduction in crime is impressive, even if it's only partially attributable to the mandatory gun law.

i couldn't access the third link, and the second merely gives the number of crimes without comparing them to anything.

i am more impressed with people's first hand accounts of using guns in self defense. i have never been in that situation, but after reading what people had to say about it, it's easier to understand why people feel the need to own guns.

pam



pahunkboy -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 6:54:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Kill them with what ?

T


Shhh!!!     ;-)



GreedyTop -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 7:06:31 AM)

http://www.wesellptc.com/crime.html



omkfY -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 7:16:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech


You are not allowed to carry the firearm in public unless you have a permit.


Not true here, people can legally open carry without permit.


As for the notion that most gun owners have more than one, I don't find it hard to believe. I have a 12 gauge for upland game, 22 for target & vermin, 30-06 for deer, and .45 for meth heads. They are just tools... How many fisherman have just 1 hook? Like many people mentioned, there are significant expanses of the US that are still quite wild. My neighboring county is three times the size of Rhode Island, yet its human population is so low it does not have a single traffic signal...



TreasureKY -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 7:17:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Nope. I didn't fail at trying. I failed at scceeding.


lol... I stand corrected.  [;)]



Kirata -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 7:29:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

The UK. But we do have marauding grey squirrels here so, on reflection, a machine-gun or even a modestly-sized anti-aircraft gun might be necessary after all.

You apparently have rather a lot of those damn squirrels...
    UK is violent crime capital of Europe ~Telegraph
    The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. ~Mail
    Violent crime underestimated for 10 years ~Independent
Try not to let that turned-up nose of yours catch the wind.

K.



Termyn8or -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 7:48:08 AM)

"and .45 for meth heads"

Actually that is the tool specified in the manual.

T



SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 7:52:34 AM)

There are differences in how crime figures are recorded and what constitutes a violent crime. Surely you are above picking out distorted headlines that support your case. Some of these crime figures have also been gathered by the Tory government to paint a picture of the previous government.



PeonForHer -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 7:56:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

UK is violent crime capital of Europe ~Telegraph The most violent country in Europe: Britain is also worse than South Africa and U.S. ~Mail Violent crime underestimated for 10 years ~Independent



From the Telegraph Report:

"A Home Office spokesperson said: “These figures are misleading. Levels of police recorded crime statistics from different countries are simply not comparable since they are affected by many factors, for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime.
“Violent crime in England and Wales has fallen by almost a half since a peak in 1995 but we are not complacent and know there is still work to do. “

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHerTry not to let that turned-up nose of yours catch the wind.


Kirata, this is the second time that you've made reference to my supposed 'snobbery'.  Apparently my preference for our UK policy of strict gun control over the USA's lack of that is all the evidence you need.  I'm aware that those who feel inferior 'see' snobbishness in everyone they meet - but that really isn't my problem to sort out, is it?   I'm afraid you're going to have look elsewhere for someone to oppress you.  I can't be bothered.



GreedyTop -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 8:03:09 AM)

I dont see you as snobbish, Peon.

Just unfamiliar(in a way that is beyond easily defined) with the (generic) American position on gun laws :)

(although.. when I was in London.. I saw heavier firepower carried by LEOs than what I see here.. granted.. the UK has been more of a terrorist target than the US..)

hey, not saying either is better than the other..


just that the views are different and never teh twain shall meet!

IMHO, anyway....



rulemylife -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 8:08:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

(and I notice there hasnt been any comment on the stats I posted earlier, from anyone.. unless I missed soemthing.. )


Well, since you asked:


Gun Control and the Second Amendment

MYTH: A decrease in crime in Kennesaw, Georgia after it passed a law which required people to keep a firearm in their homes shows that guns reduce crime.

TRUTH: Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig explain, "The case of Kennesaw, Georgia, which adopted an ordinance in 1982 requiring every household to keep a gun, has been prominent. There have been several published analyses of the burglary trends in Kennesaw around the time of the ordinance, with contradictory results.

In any event, this is not a good test of the deterrence hypothesis, since the ordinance was purely symbolic. Most homes in Kennesaw already had a gun before the ordinance, and it seems unlikely the ordinance had any effect on prevalence since there was no penalty specified in the law for refusal to comply." ("Guns and Burglary", Evaluating Gun Policy, pages 81-82)

The gun ownership rate of Kennesaw could have actually decreased because there has been a big increase in the population of Kennesaw since 1982, and it's not certain how many of the new residents abide by the ordinance. Nationwide the gun ownership rate has decreased according to the General Social Survey. So if Kennesaw has followed nationwide trends the gun ownership rate in Kennesaw would have also declined.



But let's take a look a closer look at the FBI crime statistics that you posted for Kennesaw in 2003 and compare them to a similar size city with a handgun ban.



The Kennesaw, Georgia Gun Violence Reduction Myth

Gun lobbyists and their supporters are once again parading a deeply misleading myth that claims greatly improved public safety in the rural community of Kennesaw, Georgia after in 1982 the City Council passed a law requiring every head of a household to own a gun, while the community of Morton Grove, Illinois passed a handgun ban in their community earlier in 1982.

Gun supporters misleadingly claim that Kennesaw is now much safer than Morton Grove by the use of some select use of statistical percentages of claimed crime reductions.  However an honest comparison of the actual crime figures of the two communities certainly fail to prove the case of the gun advocates that more guns in a community improve the public safety compared to less guns.

FBI crime statistics for 2003 provide the most recent equal models for comparison of the two cities which are roughly comparable in population. Morton Grove has 22, 966 and Kennesaw 25, 183 for the purposes of this 2003 actual crime figures comparison.

In 2003, Morton Grove had 2 murders and Kennesaw just 1. But both figures are subject to yearly fluctuations, where some years neither community will have an incident classified as a murder.

In 2003, Morton Grove had 4 robberies compared to 7 in Kennesaw. The Kennesaw figures are much higher than Morton Grove's for that year, and guns are often the weapon of choice in a robbery.

In 2003, Morton Grove had 12 aggravated assaults compared to the higher number of 15 in Kennesaw.

In 2003, Morton Grove had 70 burglaries compared to the much higher number of 89 in Kennesaw. Many burglars may carry a gun in case of being surprised by security or a property owner.

In 2003, Morton Grove had 390 incidents of larcency and theft compared 455 examples in Kennesaw.




SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 8:08:38 AM)

Yeah but they only generally carry them at the airport or when they are chasing electricians on the LU.

My thoughts are that if we had an armed police force i.e. all of them armed as standard, I'd be really suspicious as to their motives for joining. I don't even like to think of the consequences of that, it's a one way trip to poor relations.



Kirata -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 8:26:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Apparently my preference for our UK policy of strict gun control over the USA's lack of that is all the evidence you need.

Yes, that must be it. Hold that thought. It will comfort you.

And, of course, if the Home Office says the figures are misleading then that certainly must be so, for where in the world could one find a more disinterested source? The question might be asked, however, misleading in which way?

for example the recording of violent crime in other countries may not include behaviour that we would categorise as violent crime

Heh... yes, or for example the reverse: "Police forces recorded offences of grievous bodily harm in lower category."

You do bother to read things before you pop off, don't you? Yes, certainly you do.

K.



Termyn8or -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 8:28:38 AM)

FR, part......

No PFH, you misunderstand. Our way is not quite that of civilized beings. We are a fearful, warmongering race. And yes, I guess we are a race now. In that light please try to undetrstand. We are unique in the world, our ideals are different, our goals are different. Think differently, act differently. I don't mean me personally but we love war, in fact conflict of any kind. We thrive on it, it strengthens us.

I am not going to pull any punches now. Remember the USSR ? We fucked them up their ass nonconsentully, kinda, they did ask for it. They are broke up into smaller pieces that we find easier to deal with, at this time. We have agenteur in all the old republics. We have more military bases than China has rice. We are the biggest kid on the block right now. What we say goes. This attitude is shared by the government and the sheeple. Who owns who Hunky ?

I don't like it, I don't like forced loyalty because it is alweays fake. I don't like what we do, but have come to realize that this is the way we maintain our lifestyle. All I care now is how to get ahead, how to beat the odds and get rich. How to excel with the minimum of effort. Perhaps that takes me down a notch or three in your opinion, which is fine because I don't care.

You might not like how we are, but I tell you what. We were there for YOU EUROPE. When the war started our boys, young Men actually came there and died for you among other reasons. WE WERE THERE, when have you EVER been there for us ? Name me one time foreigners came to our soil to liberate us or help us in a war effort. Not fucking once. Hitler wasn't born in New Fucking Jersey, he was your problem, one that we solved for you. We spent our money and blood, and now that the party is over you want us thugs to become sheeple ? Go fuck yourselves.

The only fucking country that ever paid up for our help was Finland. The rest of you can shut the fuck up. You might own a bunch of our Tbills and shit, but money doesn't mean a fucking thing. We gave you BLOOD.

You panty waist sheeple don't have the stomach for war, you just dial U S A and we are there, where we don't belong, fighting for you. Whether it is for your freedonm or cheap gasoline we do the fighting. And that means Israel as well, fuck them. Fuck those brothers who can't get along, and they are brothers, Jews are not the only Semites. Fuck them all. They want our best, our bravest and strongest ? How about paying up. Is that foreign aid a fucking welfare check ? When do we get our money back ?

So you all across the pond don't like our way of life, but we come in handy when there is some dirty work to be done ? FUCK YOU ALL if that is your attitude.

Got more if anyone is interested.

T^



omkfY -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 8:34:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Name me one time foreigners came to our soil to liberate us or help us in a war effort.


1776



Termyn8or -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 8:44:20 AM)

Welcome.

T



PeonForHer -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 9:02:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I dont see you as snobbish, Peon.

Just unfamiliar(in a way that is beyond easily defined) with the (generic) American position on gun laws :)


I think I'm familiar enough for my own purposes, Greedy.  When all's said and done, it's my country that I'm concerned about, not the USA.



GreedyTop -> RE: GUNS (1/2/2011 9:04:16 AM)

I agree, Peon.. and that is as it should be :)

*tacklesmooch*



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