RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans?

RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 4:44:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Yes, I agree with that, most of our issues are the drink related variety, myself having been a victim of such, so I am very aware of what booze does to people and with that drugs, the drinking sessions where lines of coke are used. I was being facetious when I said our high levels of crime, that based on earlier postings where some claimed the UK was worse than the US. But as to the drink related problem, I for one would welcome a return to the old licensing hours, as what we have now is clearly not working, and for me, the town at night is a no go area. The dickhead that changed the licensing hours believed he could stimulate a cafe culture in Britain, what a complete out of touch idiot he was, this is Britain, where we like our beer, and reason for the licensing hours in the first place. A very good point. I agree entirely. Although I don't think it was so much "cafe culture" they were after, just an increase in revenue ahead of the smoking ban. Neither worked (for the pub trade). quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin But as to robbery, here in my own city, because guns are not used that often, there are other tools of persuasion, and look at the bravodo ( or stupidity) of the robbers in this little episode, one of whom has now been caught; Who needs guns The thing is though that, with a crossbow or a knife, there's really only so much damage you can do. You can kill a small number of people, and even that takes time and effort. Once Tactical Plod turn up you're roundly and royally screwed. With a gun you can blast away for as long as you've got ammo, and both firing and reloading are speedy procedures.

RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 4:47:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower Name it however you want, but don't expect me to sit back when you falsely claim about violent incidents which do happen, even to "visitors". I didn't "claim" anything, I merely related a personal experience. It was, as I clearly labelled it, a generalisation and, as I also stated, there are exceptions. But you, however, immediately leapt to the internet to provide you with an exception, as you always do when I post almost anything. Actually, thinking about it, it's time for the ignore bin for you. You're an idiot, and I've never seen you contribute anything of worth to any thread you post to. Bye now.

Phoenixpower -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 4:54:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower Name it however you want, but don't expect me to sit back when you falsely claim about violent incidents which do happen, even to "visitors". I didn't "claim" anything, I merely related a personal experience. It was, as I clearly labelled it, a generalisation and, as I also stated, there are exceptions. But you, however, immediately leapt to the internet to provide you with an exception, as you always do when I post almost anything. Actually, thinking about it, it's time for the ignore bin for you. Make sure to keep that promise [:D]

Aneirin -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:08:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue quote: ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower quote: ORIGINAL: RapierFugue In London, genuine cases of violent mugging, for example, outside a few dodgy areas (which no-one would want to visit anyway) are amazingly rare; I can think of maybe 2 incidents in decades (and I know a lot of people), and neither of those involved visitors. Oh really??? [8\|] I guess this 12 year old tourist would disagree with you when she would be asked about being safe in London as a visitor [8\|] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6724333.stm Dredging up individual, fairly rare cases is an idiotic way to progress an argument. Name it however you want, but don't expect me to sit back when you falsely claim about violent incidents which do happen, even to "visitors". [sm=Groaner.gif] Yes, sadly tourists are victims of the scum in our country, but that because of the fact that they are likely to be clueless and carrying expensive items as well as cash and the means to get it, the same here as tourists anywhere in the world, but here, the plod act when a tourist is attacked, as tourist protection is a number one priority due to the fact that tourists we depend on and need not frighten away. But the plod can't be everywhere all of the time, as the citizens of the country know full well so crime sadly is a fact of life, the trick here as anywhere in the world, is not make yourself attractive to the scum in society, have responsibility for your own actions.

Aneirin -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:23:45 AM)
One thing about brandishing a firearm though in the Uk, invariably it ends up in the perpetrator getting shot, so it is a no win situation, but people still do it when they get hold of guns and the mind to threaten with them, but perhaps it is the fact that they have a firearm in their posession that the facts of society they forget, as the gun seemingly weaves it's magical spell on the user, they believe they are invincible. The sad thing is the police are also trigger happy bastards and they can weave whatever protecting the public rules into what they do, just look at recent news footage and reports where gunmen are fataly shot, even after they have signalled that they have given up.

RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:26:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Yes, sadly tourists are victims of the scum in our country, but that because of the fact that they are likely to be clueless and carrying expensive items as well as cash and the means to get it, the same here as tourists anywhere in the world, but here, the plod act when a tourist is attacked, as tourist protection is a number one priority due to the fact that tourists we depend on and need not frighten away. But the plod can't be everywhere all of the time, as the citizens of the country know full well so crime sadly is a fact of life, the trick here as anywhere in the world, is not make yourself attractive to the scum in society, have responsibility for your own actions. I was in Amsterdam a good few years ago, sitting outside a "coffee" shop one mid-morning and relaxing in the spring sunshine. In Amsterdam, most of these “coffee” shops were in or near the red light area, giving it what used to be a pleasantly bohemian atmosphere, although it was also clearly the sort of area where you wouldn’t parade your wealth. I used to just wear my black leather biking jacket and jeans, not shave for a day or two, and people left me pretty much alone. The bar chap returned with my coffee just as a bloke walked past. Now I try not to stereotype, but this bloke could have been lifted from the pages of "Stereotypical American Tourist Monthly"; dreadful plaid trousers, fat as butter, booming voice, small, shrill wife ... and four (count em, four!) cameras round his neck, and all of them Canon. I'm a pretty keen photographer, so I recognised not one, but two Canon A1 bodies, one with a stock 50mm and one with a medium tele lens fitted, an AE-1 with what looked like a wide angle, and something else Canon flavoured I couldn’t quite see well enough to tell what it was ... bear in mind that, at the time, the A1 was about as pricey as amateur photography got, and the AE-1 wasn’t exactly cheap either. He had a gold Rolex on, and she was absolutely dripping with gold jewellery too. They waddled past the “coffee” shop, nodding politely to the bartender and myself as we gazed in amazement, we waved in return, and they toddled on their merry way. The barman looked at me, I looked at the barman, we both laughed, and he said “I bet any money you like they won’t have a good day”. I didn't take that bet.

RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:33:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin The sad thing is the police are also trigger happy bastards and they can weave whatever protecting the public rules into what they do, just look at recent news footage and reports where gunmen are fataly shot, even after they have signalled that they have given up. In my experience, most of the UK police shoots are perfectly reasonable - what tends to happen is the family & friends all cry foul, say what a lovely bloke the perp was, then later the details come out, and it's nothing like the initial media report. Much as I criticise the Met (and I do), the thing is, if you're waving a gun around (or what you're trying to convince people is a gun) and you get shot by armed plod, then tough shit, we're short one fuckwit, and I'm a space up in traffic tomorrow morning. Win-win! ;) The other (surprisingly common) one is "suicide by cop" - a copper mate of mine mentioned a while back that those are really on the increase; blokes deciding to end it all, and rather than just topping themselves quietly, they barricade themselves into their homes or other location, make a fuss, then try to take as many cops with them as possible before they're dropped. Good riddance to them. that idiot who tried to claim one of them was an "execution" by plod because the guy used a replica, waving it at passers-by, then at police, made me boggle; what the fuck are they supposed to do? Wait until you pull the trigger to confirm it's a "real" gun?

Aneirin -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:38:14 AM)
I do understand that observation well, for I live in Plymouth where we have the Mayflower steps where the US flag flies alongside the Jack, and the American tourist is attracted to like bees to a honey pot, the American can be spotted straight away, dress sense is a clue long before the voice is heard. Just what is it about those plaid trousers and jackets that no one else in the world would be seen dead in. And yes, they seem clueless to the threats around them as they display their wealth for all to see. Following the American as an easily recognisable target come the Japanese.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:46:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda But what would you suggest? Nothing short of rewriting the Constitution? I'm just struggling to get a handle on where you and Peon are starting from, exactly what you would consider to be the practical solution, what "solved" would look like to you. I don't think I've got an accurate grasp of that at the moment. To be honest, I don't think there is a short term solution, as a couple of people have pointed out the part of society who shouldn't have guns wouldn't give them up if they'd be made illegal, so you'd still be stuck with them having guns. Changing the Constitution would just cause a riot. You are simply having a completely different situation than we have here, you got guns all over the place, most European countries don't have have them. I agree, murders, robberies, homicides and all that happen in countries where there are little guns as well, but there is a correlation to the amount of guns and the amount of deaths. For example going on a murderous rampage with a sling shot will possibly claim some lives, however possibly not quite as many if a fast loading fire arm is used as a weapon. I don't think one country is more violent than another, but if you are having a situation where violence escalates (which can happen everywhere), introducing guns into such a situation will most likely have more disastrous results. Just imagine a case of domestic violence, possibly due to one of the partners being unfaithful, you might have punches flying, physical violence, all very ugly but not as potentially lethal as bullets. In a situation where people lose their tempers and become violent, the danger of pulling a trigger is just higher if you got a gun around in the first place.

RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:49:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Just what is it about those plaid trousers and jackets that no one else in the world would be seen dead in. And they never go out of "style" either :) I mean, I still see them in central London, although to be fair, not as much as a few years back. The "plaid trouser" brigade seem to have moved on to brightly coloured shell-suit type clothes in some cases too. Quality :)

LadyConstanze -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:54:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin One thing about brandishing a firearm though in the Uk, invariably it ends up in the perpetrator getting shot, so it is a no win situation, but people still do it when they get hold of guns and the mind to threaten with them, but perhaps it is the fact that they have a firearm in their posession that the facts of society they forget, as the gun seemingly weaves it's magical spell on the user, they believe they are invincible. The sad thing is the police are also trigger happy bastards and they can weave whatever protecting the public rules into what they do, just look at recent news footage and reports where gunmen are fataly shot, even after they have signalled that they have given up. You know, if I was a cop and some bloke would signal that he's given up, I wouldn't be willing to risk my life on account that a guy who tried to kill me and others before says he's given up - would you? If he comes out in his underpants with his hands above his head so I could see he's not hiding a gun or can't "change his mind" about killing me, yeah sure, but then I would still keep a weapon ready. Trusting the word of somebody who tried to kill you and others before isn't good common sense.

Aneirin -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 6:55:26 AM)
Oh that is simple, JSP regulations state that one can open fire to protect life is someone appears to have a firearm, in which a replica , model, or even a stick fall into, if what they are carrying is used in a manner to make another think it is a firearm. It is one of the reasons I cringe at the parents who still buy toy guns for their kids, as a game can go wrong with the UK mentality towards guns and with the knowlege that young thugs and some of very young ages have access to firearms. Now I invariably carry a knife, not as a weapon, but part of my daily carry, as I have always carried a knife and it has been used as a tool many times. But given the knee jerk mentality we have now to knives as being the instrument of evil I am finding it quite scary in using the thing outside of my home. I am fully aware of the law, and my knife complies one hundred percent with the law concerning type and size as I am also a custom knife maker, but I find as soon as I withdraw the thing from my pocket, it is like a deathly silence and all eyes on me as a possible killer, yeah with a multitool, one has to find the bloody blade first. What I am trying to indicate, is that our knee jerk society has no sense when it comes to people, as people seem unable to differentiate between threat and no threat, so an adult or even a youth that picks up anthing that gives the impression of a gun, they are taking a very big risk.

RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 7:05:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin Oh that is simple, JSP regulations state that one can open fire to protect life is someone appears to have a firearm, in which a replica , model, or even a stick fall into, if what they are carrying is used in a manner to make another think it is a firearm. I know that, but the problem is that certain sections of the media got it into their heads a while back that cops were somehow supposed to know (by what means I have no idea) who was carrying a replica and who wasn't. One utter numpty went as far as saying police should not be permitted to engage any armed individual until a "specialist identification unit" had turned up, had a look at said piece (presumably through very powerful binoculars) and certified it definitely was a gun. FFS. There's much to criticise about the police, but their response to armed crims isn't generally one of them. Yes they fucked up in the De Menezes case, big time, but then that wasn't a gun related situation, and they were severely let down by their own senior officer(s), one in particular.

Aneirin -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 7:17:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin One thing about brandishing a firearm though in the Uk, invariably it ends up in the perpetrator getting shot, so it is a no win situation, but people still do it when they get hold of guns and the mind to threaten with them, but perhaps it is the fact that they have a firearm in their posession that the facts of society they forget, as the gun seemingly weaves it's magical spell on the user, they believe they are invincible. The sad thing is the police are also trigger happy bastards and they can weave whatever protecting the public rules into what they do, just look at recent news footage and reports where gunmen are fataly shot, even after they have signalled that they have given up. You know, if I was a cop and some bloke would signal that he's given up, I wouldn't be willing to risk my life on account that a guy who tried to kill me and others before says he's given up - would you? If he comes out in his underpants with his hands above his head so I could see he's not hiding a gun or can't "change his mind" about killing me, yeah sure, but then I would still keep a weapon ready. Trusting the word of somebody who tried to kill you and others before isn't good common sense. Been in that situation many times, and it is very scary, all the mind does is shout questions at you regarding what you are seeing, as perhaps it doesn't occur, that when one has a firearm themselves, with a round in the chamber, you are shit scared and all you can think of is the jsp's and what constitutes a situation where one must open fire. But in the UK, that act is even worse due to the knowlege that as soon as you forced to open fire to protect life, you are technically a criminal, and that all following the Private Lee Clegg situation, where the regulations that he adhered to were thrown out the window by lawyers. I personally hope never again to be in that situation ever and only hope that others in a similar situation are fully aware of their responsibilities. But as to the general public who think the world is cute and cuddly and the police are just good 'ole boys who act like in the movies, they need to be educated that if they act in a threatening manner with what appears to be a gun or a petrol bomb they are a bug's dick away from death when confronted with a live armed force, because the movies are not reality. My understanding of the situation when one appears to be brandishing a firearm, is that they intend to use it and I believe that is the situation with the police too, so countrywide education should be put out that you pick up a firearm in the wrong place at the wrong time, you are going to get shot and that is that.

RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 7:20:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin so countrywide education should be put out that you pick up a firearm in the wrong place at the wrong time, you are going to get shot and that is that. Why waste good money? If someone is so stupid as to believe they can wave a shooter around and not have plod take it very seriously then they're too stupid to live, and we're better off without them. "Sometimes, the gene pool needs a little chlorine" ;)

Aneirin -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 7:37:13 AM)
I tend to think in terms of protecting life, therefore all education is necessary as it is not only the gunman's life that needn't be wasted, but any other who happens to be a victim of the gunman, why let the situation happen in the first place, why put people at risk for want of an education in reality. Just as the police and armed forces have strict guidelines to adhere to, then so should the public, the rule pick up a firearm and use it in a threatening manner will result in your death should be common knowlege, and with that, there is no hiding place behind youth or mental illness, a human with a gun in the wrong place at the wrong time is a threat and that is that. Bollocks to all this, it's not loaded, or it's a replica or it's a stick, the rule being simply those questions aren't asked as rule one, what appears to be a firearm, rule 2, what appears to be a firearm used in a threatening manner, rule 3 can be established after the fact when either the gunman is dead or luckily captured.

LadyConstanze -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 7:39:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin But as to the general public who think the world is cute and cuddly and the police are just good 'ole boys who act like in the movies, they need to be educated that if they act in a threatening manner with what appears to be a gun or a petrol bomb they are a bug's dick away from death when confronted with a live armed force, because the movies are not reality. My understanding of the situation when one appears to be brandishing a firearm, is that they intend to use it and I believe that is the situation with the police too, so countrywide education should be put out that you pick up a firearm in the wrong place at the wrong time, you are going to get shot and that is that. I'm not quite as nice as you are here, if you don't have the brains to realize that if you threaten with something that could be a real weapon, you are playing with your life and will most likely end being killed, then you're a danger to yourself and others, and the parents who come complaining that their darling son or daughter was killed for brandishing a fake weapon, just take them to court for neglecting their parental responsibility to explain the facts of life. I reserve sympathy for people who are in bad situations through no fault of their own, I might be a terrible person but I find it incredibly hard to feel sympathetic to somebody who brought it all on himself.

Aneirin -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 7:44:30 AM)
We are all responsible for our actions, that is the reality, but I do believe a large portion of my countrymen are slaves to a so called civilised society, perhaps a belief in the nanny state where all is sweetness, light and cotton wool padding.

RapierFugue -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 7:49:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin I tend to think in terms of protecting life, therefore all education is necessary as it is not only the gunman's life that needn't be wasted, but any other who happens to be a victim of the gunman, why let the situation happen in the first place, why put people at risk for want of an education in reality. Because we already chuck millions upon millions down the drain by trying to allow for fuckwits in every situation - trying to make every single possible permutation of idiocy not happen; witness the money wasted on signs adorning coffee machines that say things like "WARNING! DISPENSES HOT LIQUIDS!" and the like. Without some form of Darwinian pressure a species eventually degenerates into fuckwittery and does a dodo. If you're genuinely too stupid to work out that waving a gun around, and then not putting it down promptly when instructed so to do by a heavily armed police officer, is possibly going to result in your death then I'm sorry, you're a liability, you're taking up valuable resources that could be better expended on someone with half a brain, and the human race as a whole is better off without you. "It's time to trim the herd".

LadyConstanze -> RE: Are the British more law abiding than Americans? (1/3/2011 7:59:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aneirin We are all responsible for our actions, that is the reality, but I do believe a large portion of my countrymen are slaves to a so called civilised society, perhaps a belief in the nanny state where all is sweetness, light and cotton wool padding. I'm as much of a fan of a civilized society as the next person, but where's that belief that it's all sweetness, light and cotton wool padding? Anybody who believes that possibly never held down a job for longer than a few hours or hasn't left the house EVER.

Page: << < prev 8 9 [10] 11 12 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.140625