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RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/6/2011 1:07:23 AM   
SexyBossyBBW


Posts: 1693
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum
quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW
I will date just about anyone, provided, I feel some attraction, and an he comes to me, with an open mind to learning that which he may not know.
So, it's easy to refuse to deal with people who are high maintenance, or for some reason are lacking in learning; some days I lack the patience, and I do not; but most days I try to give a little guidance, and watch for receptiveness.    M

I'm confused by this.

Hypothetically speaking, if a man who was interested in dating you addressed you by the term "bitch", but was never tought that it wasn't acceptable, would you still date him?

This just seems to be like ignorance of the law. You still broke it.
Maybe I sounded a bit too general, in saying I would date just about anyone...   Of course I wouldn't.

I suppose, I take it for granted that all people know not to call others out of their names, unless seeking a verbal or physical beatdown.   
When I speak about lacking the basics, I mean things like: he doesn't know to walk on the outer side of the sidewalk with his woman; he doesn't quite know how to be in a nice restaurant; he doesn't know, he shouldn't walk in front of his lady, he is respectful and kind, but doesn't know how to express himself well, etc.

What I mean mostly is, if someone expresses erroneously, but has good intentions, is kind, and is open to learning, I would tend to be patient with him, and I don't always mind micromanaging.

quote:

LadyPact
The highlighted above, to Me, seems a contradiction.  If someone can't come into My house and respect everyone in it, they aren't welcome there.  If they aren't the type to be courteous, they aren't invited into My home in the first place.  Not even on an acquaintance level, much less an actual place of significance in My life.
We used to have sunday school at my parents' home, growing up, so everyone was welcome.   Anyone was also likely to be taught manners by my father, if he felt he/she needed it.    There was no swearing, or raunchiness at home, ever.     Needless to say, anyone who could not mind his manners, was free never to return.   There are many people in the world, who don't know the significance of "home trainin" because they never had it.   My position is, I wouldn't dismiss someone for making one mistake, if he is willing to learn, and do better.    M


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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/7/2011 11:15:01 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Guess I'm still confused on that one, but different strokes for different folks, as they say.

I did want to take a moment to thank everyone who participated in the thread.  Maybe it will be a good reference thread for those who are just joining the site.


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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/7/2011 11:36:35 AM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissAsylum
Hypothetically speaking, if a man who was interested in dating you addressed you by the term "bitch", but was never tought that it wasn't acceptable, would you still date him?

This just seems to be like ignorance of the law. You still broke it.


Good example of culture clash.  Piers Anthony, a fantasy author, deals with exactly this question in the context of a world where werewolf packs address one another as wolf and bitch as titles of ordinary respect.  In a werewolf pack, if you call someone "man" or "woman" or "boy" or "girl", that is the equivalent term of disrespect, presumably because it suggests they don't have a wolf nature. 

If I was chatting with someone who had chosen this culture (and I know a couple of "wolf pack" poly groups who actually do), and genuinely internalized the idea of wolf and bitch as respectful titles that carried no hint of mainstream cultural bias, I'd be fine with its use in that context.  My own household is also feral and animal identified, which is how we've connected to some of the "wolf packs" out there, but none of us are wolves.  So we don't use those words.  I have seen others use them in a respectful context.  It's possible, just rare.  What it means to them is simply that they identify very strongly with the animal and are proud to be so identified.

Your point of ignorance of the law also counts.  You'd have to be pretty socially impaired to use terms known to be offensive outside the context of your subculture where you're sure that everyone understands them as respectful.  So if someone randomly used the term on a stranger who was not a consenting part of their group, I'd agree that this would be a pretty big problem.  Their trying to explain that they were using the term respectfully probably wouldn't help.  Understanding the social conventions of a culture are crucial if you are attempting to relate in it, and in this case there is no excuse for not understanding the mainstream social norm of "bitch" being patently offensive. 

Looking at the thing from a linguistic perspective, it becomes fairly obvious that no word in and of itself is offensive, with the possible exception of excrement words.  These are deemed insulting by every human culture extant, and apparently spontaneously by language using primates.  Yes, Koko cusses.   With this exception, it is cultural context and framing that makes a word offensive.  Understanding cultural context is the crucial skill here.


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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/7/2011 2:47:05 PM   
MissAsylum


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Your point of ignorance of the law also counts.  You'd have to be pretty socially impaired to use terms known to be offensive outside the context of your subculture where you're sure that everyone understands them as respectful.  So if someone randomly used the term on a stranger who was not a consenting part of their group, I'd agree that this would be a pretty big problem.  Their trying to explain that they were using the term respectfully probably wouldn't help.  Understanding the social conventions of a culture are crucial if you are attempting to relate in it, and in this case there is no excuse for not understanding the mainstream social norm of "bitch" being patently offensive. 



This is where my environment comes in. I wasn't raised in Baltimore,MD, and yet I get called "bitch" as a complement (particularly from the younger people), but i still don't care for the word.

Yesterday is a prime example. I take the metro to work. A young man said to me, "excuse me 'ma' but you is one fly ass bitch."

I said thanks, but I informed him that I don't appreciate being referred to like that. he looked at me like i said "fuck off" or something.

did I understand what he was saying? yes. did I like what he said? uh-no.



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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/7/2011 2:57:15 PM   
LadyConstanze


Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline 		The c word could be a term of respect in almost every culture, if somebody calls me that, it's a declaration of war...

Living in a fantasy world of your own is fine, but the moment you bring it out into the real world and expect people to live by the rules you have in your own closed environment, you are heading for a serious clash and lots of trouble.

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Those who do and those who don't!

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/7/2011 3:03:19 PM   
sexyred1


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Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR
I'd say: know how to tell your kink-side to shut the hell up until you've made a proper human connection.


This should be an addition to the TOS or needlepointed on a pilllow, at the very least.

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/7/2011 10:19:47 PM   
SexyBossyBBW


Posts: 1693
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline 		I can honestly say, I've never been called a bitch to my face.   Online, I have, when I haven't complied with some HNG's request to top him online.
Tangent:  I had a guy stand in front of my car in D.C. once, called me ma, and insist I give him my phone number, or I was not going to be able to move my car, without running him over.   Eventually, I gave him 10 numbers, and he left.

Back on the subject of training:  I also have a lot of youngsters hang around my place at times, with nieces and nephews, but when I enter, they know cursing is out, or they are; slowly, one does notice less vulgar speech, and a softening of the "hard core."   I do know that in poor neighborhoods, many basic communication skills are absent, because 1 or 2 parent/s are too busy trying to make ends meet, or they simply assume the offsprings will absorb and emulate their behavior.    I know many good/decent people, who still need some basic information.
 
The only time I will absolutely not tolerate "he may not know any better", is when the ignorance is accompanied by a narrow/stubborn mind, or aggressive posturing.   M


_____________________________

"..touching was and still is and always will be the True Revolution" Nikki Giovanni
"Only when there are many people who are pools of peace, silence, understanding, will war disappear." -Osho

(in reply to MissAsylum)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/8/2011 11:24:24 PM   
Sinbad


Posts: 2
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		Ma'am.

Thank you for allowing me to write.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/9/2011 2:16:37 AM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		Fast reply- thank you LadyPact, for the platform to address this issue. You are a gem.

To all the lovely submissives and slaves out there:

I require obedience, and I don't do training in this area. You either are obedient, or you aren't.

You do what you are supposed to at work, at school, and in your interactions in the rest of the world, in your daily lives. So do what you're supposed to with Me, too. Your strict obedience and willing compliance is necessary for our mutual pleasure and fulfillment.

I don't engage in reward/punishment dynamics, (funishment yes- that is yummy) so your willing obedience had better be a constant. If you need training in this area, we're not a good match.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/9/2011 3:11:26 PM   
Steponme73


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/9/2007
Status: offline 		After reading what everyone has posted, I have a couple of thoughts. First, I agree, manners, common sense courtesy, respect are must items.

Second, I think part of the problem here are the profiles themselves. How many profiles on here refer to male subs as losers, money pigs, etc. Now, I know that is part of the "game", but I think what happens sometimes, is that new people to the site don't understand all of the dynamics.
Personally, I would never respond to a female who considered me nothing more than a loser or a money pig. I can see how some male subs get the idea that manners and common sense don't play a part. The problem is not the internet. The problem is with the people. I would bet you dollars to donuts, if you could talk to these subs in a vanilla world, the majority of them would show the proper respect and manners. If they didn't, society would be down on them hard and faster than you could blink your eye.

Is there a solution to this problem? I don't think so. I do think that threads like this one help to bring people back to reality. Of course there are those that you just can't help. Maybe if they read this, they will understand that even though this is a kinky site, manners and proper respect for "ALL" is still something that should be adhered too.

Oh, for people who post pictures that are not main stream type photos...what are you thinking? The answer is they are not. I don't think there is hope for them.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/9/2011 4:16:56 PM   
MissAsylum


Posts: 1863
Joined: 1/9/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steponme73

Oh, for people who post pictures that are not main stream type photos...what are you thinking? The answer is they are not. I don't think there is hope for them.



Agreed. If they wouldn't flash me on the street, they shouldn't do it here.

But if they would anyway...eh.

Live and let live.

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/10/2011 12:28:57 PM   
XXMystiqueXX


Posts: 41
Joined: 1/4/2011
Status: offline 		          Lady Pact.... Thanks for coming up with this thread.  Now, how to get most of the hopefuls here on CM to read / understand / retain what all the good Lady's <and a few males>  have posted here?  <G>    I think many of the sub males here would be amazed at what results they could achieve in meeting Lady's if they would apply these common sense basics!
 
                  
                ~~Not new to CM.  Just a new name to protect the NOT so innocent.~~

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/11/2011 2:34:11 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		I would add:

Know that relationships aren't built in a day. It takes time to build a relationship, and to even figure out whether there is going to BE a relationship. I shouldn't have to teach, explain, reiterate and reinforce that I am NOT "in love" with you after the first date, piercing session, or hour of service.

How to "agree to disagree"--and how to know when it's time to shut up when it is clear that one's arguments are not going to change the other person's beliefs. We are human beings. I should not have to teach someone that we are EACH entitled to our own opinions. It is fine to state one's opinions (yes, even for those on the yielding end of the relationship, under the proper protocols for their dynamic), with the understanding that, at some point, it may become crystal clear that one's opinion is not shared by the others. Instead of  continuing to argue it into the ground, it is time to shut up and look INSIDE and figure out whether one can live with the fact that one's opinion is not shared in that environment. If the answer is "YES, I can accept that", then -do- accept it. You don't have to change your opinion -- just don't pull it out and wave it like a red flag every time there is a break in the general conversation. If the answer is "NO, the fact that they don't agree with me will never be acceptable", then it's time to start looking for a situation where those dearly held opinions are shared by the other individuals involved. That -doesn't- mean that it's time to continue to attempt to change the minds of those present, to the point of distracting every conversation and continuing to flap one's lips until everyone else in the gathering despises one's very presence and dreads seeing one coming.

Calla


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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/11/2011 3:58:53 AM   
Scala


Posts: 63
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline 		Interesting thread ... I have one question Ladies. Are your expectations set higher for submissive men than they would be for "normal" vanilla men ?

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/11/2011 4:47:45 AM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		Scala, I would ask if you ask that in a separate topic rather than detract from the wonderful advice located in this particular thread.

Oh I have one (even though I am not a Domme) and it may have been discussed already:

How to think on your own and finding the drive to please a Woman rather than waiting for punishment/pleasure to drive you.


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As your desire is, so is your will.
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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/11/2011 4:58:46 AM   
Scala


Posts: 63
Joined: 7/5/2008
Status: offline 		Pyro ,
The topic is, "areas that shouldn't require training". My question is, "is the normal decorum and manner found in the vanilla world suffice to satisfy an approach to a domme or is more expected from a submissive man ?

so no I don't think that it warrants a seperate thread for something that is relavant to the topic being discussed

take care
Scala

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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/11/2011 2:48:04 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scala

Interesting thread ... I have one question Ladies. Are your expectations set higher for submissive men than they would be for "normal" vanilla men ?


Not for me -- My standards are the same regardless of gender, race, or philosophical background. *grins*

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/15/2011 8:16:55 PM   
cloudboy


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A jazzy sports car can help make up for deficiencies in those areas.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/15/2011 9:09:51 PM   
SweetDommes


Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Scala

Interesting thread ... I have one question Ladies. Are your expectations set higher for submissive men than they would be for "normal" vanilla men ?



this is assuming that we would date a "'normal' vanilla man" - I wouldn't even bother with one, nor would Holly.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Areas that shouldn't require training. - 1/16/2011 3:14:56 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


A jazzy sports car can help make up for deficiencies in those areas.


It would be nice to think so if one is the person with the sportscar trying to pull this "bait-and-switch" off -- but not really. Our usual response to this attempt to cover deficiencies with a revving engine is usually "what a Donkey!" (In our best Mike Meyers/Shrek imitation). *LOL*

Calla


_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

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Profile   Post #: 60
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