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RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:15:05 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
What I despise are people who won't take a stand on anything. People who want to sit back, hold hands, and pretend that the solutions are oh so simple.

You sit there and complain about it, then accuse others of not offering any solutions while offering absolutely nothing except your self-righteous ranting.

At this moment, what is there to take a stand on? You know why this guy went on a kill-crazy rampage? Please share that with the rest of us.

If you're creating a solution armed with only your preconceived notions or those provided to you by some talking heads on your favorite talk show - I don't want your solutions.

I don't think the solution is simple. In fact, I think the solution is so complex that the immediate knee-jerk reaction is almost certainly going to be wrong. Once I have some idea of what's behind this incident, I'll probably try and take a stab at what could be done to correct for it. I acknowledge that it's possible that nothing can be done. That happens sometimes.

If you have a solution, if you've taken a stand on this, please fill me in as to what it is. I went back and re-read this whole thread (God help me) and based on your posts, I haven't been able to determine what it is you view as an answer or as the root cause of the problem.

its all gossip and parlor talk!

bunch of window watchers playing government and they do not even know the facts. (if that is even possible in todays world of spin and lies.)

I have said several times much of this thread is enough to make me puke.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to InvisibleBlack)

Post #: 341

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:15:09 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Excuse me RealOne?

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Post #: 342

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:16:55 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

Reading this thread is almost brain damaging... If all you want to do is score some talking points any time someone dies tragically, you're definitely not part of the solution - you're part of the problem.

I second the motion!

Most of this is gawd awful hard for me to read and keep my composure.

looks like I am 3rding it now.

Make that four, or whatever number we're up to now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I've been offline for a couple of days but following the story. When I got home, I read this whole thread. Does anyone else notice that wilbur and truckinslave havent posted here? I bet they support the sick asshole and that's why they haven't posted.

Please don't say that, Hill. I know folks have extremist positions at times, but I can't believe the above about anybody. Not when innocent people died.

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(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 343

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:18:24 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

Reading this thread is almost brain damaging... If all you want to do is score some talking points any time someone dies tragically, you're definitely not part of the solution - you're part of the problem.

I second the motion!

Most of this is gawd awful hard for me to read and keep my composure.

looks like I am 3rding it now.

Make that four, or whatever number we're up to now.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

I've been offline for a couple of days but following the story. When I got home, I read this whole thread. Does anyone else notice that wilbur and truckinslave havent posted here? I bet they support the sick asshole and that's why they haven't posted.

Please don't say that, Hill. I know folks have extremist positions at times, but I can't believe the above about anybody. Not when innocent people died.

Sorry, LadyP, one of them has already come out in support of folks that would murder abortionists. I just think theyre sick and ignorant.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 344

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:21:35 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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Maybe I missed it but where did the right out and out direct someone to take a life?... Remember it is not necessarily a party member that incites people. Look right here in our chat rooms...Now tell me you have not observed left leaning posters as well as right inciting, and agitating. How do any of us know, who, where, or what pushed or influenced this man to commit murder.

I am not posting here to assign blame as many...but stating my hope that we can all tone down or rhetoric and become more understanding and accommodating of other ideas.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 345

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:21:47 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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I'm just hopin. Make that Hoping that people uderstand that this little crazy dipsit isn't representative of moderate/conservatives in this country.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 346

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:23:01 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Excuse me RealOne?

you want care for the mentally ill but they do not even give decent care to the kids that come back from across the pond.

ohaha was right his health care would reduce the budget, but that lets them get their grubbers into the pie so they can steal from us and people who know about how the financial world really works cannot get the proper refunds from the criminals so the deficit continues to grow.

You have chemicals in your food and water and no solid ground for any of the kids to stand upon.

the system as it is today is literally approaching anarchy and people are supposed to be sane.

we all live in a world where virtually everything is a lie.

the roots of a society has been ripped up in this country by window watchers and keyboard commandos who's only basis for their opinions are what they "feel" and we wonder why we have nutty people....

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/9/2011 5:28:04 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 347

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:28:41 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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FR

We who have stood over
so many graves
know that no matter what they do
all of us must live
or none

Alice Walker, "Each One, Pull One"

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No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 348

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:28:45 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Excuse me RealOne?

you want care for the mentally ill but they do not even give decent care to the kids that come back from across the pond.

ohaha was right his health care would reduce the budget, but that lets them get their grubbers into the pie so they can steal from us and people who know about how the financial world really works cannot get the proper refunds from the criminals so the deficit continues to grow.

You have chemicals in your food and water and no solid ground for any of the kids to stand upon.

the system as it is today is literally approaching anarchy and people are supposed to be sane.

we all live in a world where virtually everything is a lie.

the roots of a society has been ripped up in this country by widow watchers who's only basis for their opinions are what the "feel" and we wonder why we have nutty people....

RealOne, please do not assume that I do not address these issues simply because I didn't mention all the causes I have worked for in one post. I am sure no one would want a book length post. I have been a phone calling and paper working terror to many senator's and congress persons on many of these issues. I have gone face to face with some, in many areas.

Yes... I do want better mental health for all people including Vets. I used to say... have you hugged a Vet today? Did you actually take that homeless Vet, stinky and dirty and hug them, love them and then try to get their needs met? Most said no... I said yes.

Until you know my work, love and causes... chill out before you confront me on any of this.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Real0ne)

Post #: 349

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:31:51 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Incredible, to support your argument you are using the link of gun ownership vs suicide bombers. I find it abhorent that you can even try and do this. Its like you saying about someone being stabbed to death in the UK and me saying "Well you had 9/11"

Like it or not, the fact remains that if guns were not so freely available in the US then there wouldnt be so many of these mass murders. Sure we do have similar events in the UK, like the shooting in Cumbria, but far less frequency than in the US.

I find it hard to believe you don't see the logic... If I want to kill and I'm a fanatic I will find a tool to do it...Taking away guns will not stop these people as it has not stopped them in the UK.

We must get off this guns are the root of all evil fallacy…they are the root of nothing…people are.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 350

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 5:48:18 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline

Guns are NOT the root of all evil. Intolerance IS the root of evil.

No matter how well armed and different in opinion 2 or 3 or 4 or............ different groups views are, if they tolerate each other and listen to each other, there will be no terrorism.

This kid was a terrorist.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 351

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 6:00:48 PM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Like it or not, the fact remains that if guns were not so freely available in the US then there wouldn,t be so many of these mass murders.

Clinically, you are probably correct. Shootings like that which occurred in Arizona on Saturday would likely become less frequent if guns were not so freely available in the USA. Everyday crime (which does not garner 24/7 coverage on CNN) would likely rise sharply as it has in the UK since handguns were banned there. From that article:

"Crime was not supposed to rise after handguns were banned in 1997. Yet, since 1996 the serious violent crime rate has soared by 69%: robbery is up by 45% and murders up by 54%. Before the law, armed robberies had fallen by 50% from 1993 to 1997, but as soon as handguns were banned the robbery rate shot back up, almost back to their 1993 levels."

Ever time this topic comes up the same question is asked: How do we get criminals to abide by the handgun ban? To date, none of you that favor this has come up with a viable answer to that question. Answer that question and I will gladly turn over my firearm.

(in reply to Politesub53)

Post #: 352

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 6:50:19 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

I think Bill Maher should run for President!!He has the right idea.Hes not afraid to tell it as it is!A true genius for the modern day America!Let Obama finish his term 2016,then let Maher run for office!

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(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 353

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 6:59:08 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
Sorry, LadyP, one of them has already come out in support of folks that would murder abortionists. I just think theyre sick and ignorant.

Understand that I meant no offense to you. I would just hate to think that there are people out there who believe this is a good thing. While I'm sure that I am naive in saying so, I would hate to think that any human being would be happy about or support this kind of tragedy.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Hillwilliam)

Post #: 354

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 7:09:29 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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Likewise Lady P. I'll name names here, though, truckinslave has already come out in favor of those who would murder abortionists. I told him that he was no better, morally, than "abdullah the raghead" who would set off a car bomb in front of a marketplace filled with innocent people to further a religious agenda.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 355

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 7:19:02 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

For damns sake at least use a decent reference, I might suggest using the Home office Criminal statistics
which offer up a whole whack of different scenarios than you suggest
Murder for example was at 739 in 1997, had a high of 1,047 in 2002, went down every year till last years figure which was 615
Attempted Murders in 1997 652, attempted murders in 2009/20010 588
All Robbery statistics in 2009...75,101 in 1997 63,0372
Burglary Statistics in a dwelling... in 1997 513,346 and down to 282,986 in 2008/9 as 2010 figures were not provided.

http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/recordedcrime1.html
look for the key publications link down at the bottom of the page has years 1898 to last year
Its a huge spreadsheet in excel, that you can download or open in google docs...
I have screen snaps, but I doubt that will convince you
but its there if you care to prove me wrong
Edited to add, these are the TOTAL crime figures since 1997
4,598,357 in 1997
4,545,337 in1998
4,481,817in 1999
5,109,089 in 2000
5,301,187 in2001
5,170,843 in 2002
5,525,024in 2003
5,974,960 in 2004
6,013,759 in 2005
5,637,511 in 2006
5,555,174 in 2007
5,427,558in 2008
4,951,173in 2009
4,338,604 in 2010
All easily verifiable and the best statistics from the people who really KNOW

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 1/9/2011 7:41:15 PM >

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(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 356

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 7:31:54 PM

liks2plzlf

Posts: 390
Joined: 7/21/2005
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Makes one wonder if making handguns illegal would work better than making drugs illegal has!

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 357

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 7:40:20 PM

Hillwilliam

Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: liks2plzlf

Makes one wonder if making handguns illegal would work better than making drugs illegal has!

They ARE illegal in the District of Columbia (Wasington DC). I don't think it is a coincidence that DC has a higher violent crime rate than any of the 50 states.

(in reply to liks2plzlf)

Post #: 358

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 7:46:21 PM

Charles6682

Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline

Hmm,good point.I can go and buy any gun I legally want and go buy a bottle of whiskey.Yet,smoking a joint is totally illegal and is a threat to society.What a dumb country we live in.

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 1/9/2011 7:47:44 PM >

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Post #: 359

RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 9:08:37 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

"There's reason to believe this individual [Loughner] may have a mental issue,"

He wanted to own a gun. Of course he had a mental issue.

Owning a gun... or wanting too.. doesnt make anyone mentally unstable.

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Post #: 360

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