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RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 9:11:32 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelandKindSdst

The usual idiotic and stupid logic and thinking of a Liberal... take the guns away so that only the killers and the criminals have them.


Im liberal... and i support gun ownership.

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Profile   Post #: 361
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 9:15:09 PM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

The expulsion should have been a red flag to whom??



That is an excellent question, Hlen. I don't know. The family, certainly. The nanny-state gives me the horrors, too.

Six people are dead, a US Representative is among the critically wounded. I'm still in the angry place a little bit.

Have you heard the report that the 9 year old was born on 9/11/01, and featured in a photobook of children born on that day?


I did hear that. She was also on her student council. To think her life began on a day of such violence and ended in violence...........This is the most heartbreaking thing to me of Saturday's events.

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RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 9:20:23 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Like it or not, the fact remains that if guns were not so freely available in the US then there wouldnt be so many of these mass murders. Sure we do have similar events in the UK, like the shooting in Cumbria, but far less frequency than in the US.


You make it sound like you can go to the corner store and buy one today. Last i heard, that wasnt the case.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 363
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 9:26:00 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I would also say that there is a simple reason why the level of angry rhetoric has been steadily increasing. It's because it works. Fear-mongering is a hugely successful tactic. The ranting demagogue defeats the calm intelligent debator. You might not want it that way, but that's the way it is. Joe McCarthy's anti-communist screed is looked down upon now but it was hugely successful. He won office. He got re-elected. You don't think the big political thinkers noticed this?


Exactly!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 364
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 10:02:29 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Excuse me RealOne? 


you want care for the mentally ill but they do not even give decent care to the kids that come back from across the pond.

ohaha was right his health care would reduce the budget, but that lets them get their grubbers into the pie so they can steal from us and people who know about how the financial world really works cannot get the proper refunds from the criminals so the deficit continues to grow.

You have chemicals in your food and water and no solid ground for any of the kids to stand upon. 

the system as it is today is literally approaching anarchy and people are supposed to be sane.

we all live in a world where virtually everything is a lie.

the roots of a society has been ripped up in this country by widow watchers who's only basis for their opinions are what the "feel" and we wonder why we have nutty people....



RealOne, please do not assume that I do not address these issues simply because I didn't mention all the causes I have worked for in one post. I am sure no one would want a book length post. I have been a phone calling and paper working terror to many senator's and congress persons on many of these issues. I have gone face to face with some, in many areas.

Yes... I do want better mental health for all people including Vets. I used to say... have you hugged a Vet today? Did you actually take that homeless Vet, stinky and dirty and hug them, love them and then try to get their needs met? Most said no... I said yes.

Until you know my work, love and causes... chill out before you confront me on any of this.




lockit, my post was not directed at you, it was directed at the system at large.   It was also directed at how we as a society do it to ourselves.  People frankly do not give a shit about anything, at least not enough to do anything about it.  Kudos to you if you are out there pounding the street for what you believe in even if we should find we are on the opposite sides of there street thats just fine, at least you are doing something and therefore a credit to th4e country as compared to most who are nothing more than keyboard parlor talking commandos.

The problem with mental health is that like most things now days the roots go extremely deep.

The repair is not likely to happen.  broken families, everything is commercial and bullshit, no one really has decent foundational values anymore.  When you have a praze' dante' that gets up and says "it depends on what is, is" you know we are in deep shit in this country and that takes a change in literaly all the people in this country and I do not see it happening.  at least not to the point any real progress will be made along the lines of the mentally ill.

I hope that better clears up where I stand on the matter and its all about them stealing our money anyway they can.

Like the old cartoon.
1 for you
2 for me
3 for you
5 for me
5 for you
20 for me

that is how the gubmint operates.


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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

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Profile   Post #: 365
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 10:09:09 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Shrugs, So what you are saying is that as long as you didn't actually hang a black man in the south then you really had no part in the apartheid that existed?......Spin it for your benefit DS, don't worry, your buddies will be back on radio tomorrow to spout how they aren't responsible.


WTF?  I never DID hang a black man in the South.  I never WAS in the south.  And I did demonstrate for civil rights way back when.

Tell ya what.  You quit holding ALL whites responsible for the acts of a few, and I won't consider you a racist.  You know, those people who make blanket, untrue assumptions about others based on skin color.

You'll note that in my previous post, I stated that I had never listened to right wing radio personalities.  I'm not a fan of them for several reasons.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Profile   Post #: 366
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 10:27:09 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		I have to agree with DarkSteven on this one.I have never seen any posts DS has made,that indicates he is really too far on either side of the aisle.If anything,he is one of the few who do not come on here talking bad about anyone.Seems like a reasonable guy from what I can tell.

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Profile   Post #: 367
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 10:32:27 PM   
wittynamehere


Posts: 759
Joined: 2/5/2010
Status: offline 		What is this "aisle", and why do you and others seem to want to be near it so badly? Is it The One True Way(tm)?

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Profile   Post #: 368
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 10:47:05 PM   
eihwaz


Posts: 367
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline 		Agreed that we need to learn more about the killer's motives.  And, yes, there will always be psychopathic and/or psychotic individuals with which societies will have to contend.  However:

  • Congresswoman Giffords was included in Sarah Palin's political hit list.  Each elected official in the hit list was indicated by a cross hairs.
  • Timothy McVeigh's avowed reason for the Oklahoma City bombing was revenge for the federal government's handling of the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas.  He was not "merely" crazy like Charles Whitman; he viewed himself as pursuing a political agenda shared with the militia movement and others.
  • Dr. George Tiller, a physician who performed abortions in his clinic in Wichita, Kansas, was assassinated by an abortion activist on 31 May 2009.  Dr. Tiller was on Operation Rescue's hit list and was referred to as "Tiller the Baby Killer" on The O'Reilly Factor numerous times.
So while it may be premature to do so at present, and while the killer must be held accountable for his crimes, it will in future be appropriate to debate whether the inflammatory rhetoric of Palin and others was contributory.

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 369
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/9/2011 11:42:42 PM   
Charles6682


Posts: 1820
Joined: 10/1/2007
From: Saint Pete,FL
Status: offline 		You know,the "aisle" can probaly be defined by however one wants to make it.In upstate NY,I would most certainly be considered a "Moderate" up there.Yet,here in Flordia,many would probaly consider me to be a far left "Liberal".I guess I understand when those in Canada and Europe,who say that their "right" is Americas "left".Just depends on where you live and how that community defines its own "center".

< Message edited by Charles6682 -- 1/9/2011 11:44:03 PM >

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RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 12:06:01 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

Apparently the second suspect is no longer a suspect.

Here is more on the person of interest, who according to NBC News has been ruled out: "Authorities tell NBC News they have interviewed the 'person of interest' in the Arizona shooting [and] are now satisfied he was merely at the Safeway store and not connected to the shooting or the suspect in any way."

The New York Times notes: "Investigators said that the second man was a taxi driver who drove the suspected gunman to the scene. Upon arriving there, the passenger said he did not have change and he and the taxi driver went into the supermarket for change and the two then walked out together and separated."

Current charges...

WASHINGTON - The United States Attorney for the District of Arizona, Dennis K. Burke, announced today that his office filed a federal complaint against Jared Lee Loughner. The complaint was signed by Magistrate Judge Michelle Burns in Phoenix.

Loughner is suspected of shooting U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords, Chief Judge John Roll, Giffords' staff member Gabriel Zimmerman and approximately 16 others Saturday in Tucson, Ariz.

The federal complaint alleges five counts against Loughner:

COUNT 1

On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did attempt to kill Gabrielle Giffords, a Member of Congress; in violation of Title 18, United States Code Section 351(c).

COUNT 2

On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did unlawfully kill Gabriel Zimmerman, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1111.

COUNT 3

On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did unlawfully kill John M. Roll, a U. S. District Court Judge for the District of Arizona, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1111.

COUNT 4

On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did, with intent to kill, attempt to kill Pamela Simon, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1113.

COUNT 5

On or about Jan. 8, 2011, at or near Tucson, in the District of Arizona, the defendant, Jared Lee Loughner, did, with intent to kill, attempt to kill Ron Barber, an employee of the United States who was engaged in performance of official duties and who was assisting Member of Congress Gabrielle Giffords while she was engaged in performance of official duties; in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1114 and 1113.

Loughner will make an initial appearance on the complaint at 2 p.m. Mountain time Monday, Jan. 10, 2011, in front of U.S. Magistrate Judge Lawrence Anderson at the Sandra Day O’Connor Courthouse in Phoenix in courtroom 302. He is entitled to a preliminary hearing and a detention hearing. The court will set a date for both hearings. Loughner remains in federal custody.

The Rules of Criminal Procedure require that a grand jury review the evidence and issue an indictment within 30 days of the defendant's initial appearance.

The U.S. Attorney's Office for the District of Arizona is in the process of drafting an indictment against Loughner for presentation to the grand jury.

The Lawyer.... and its really no surprise... who else would have any experience at all in defending this type of case?

A federal public defender known for handling high-profile cases, Judy Clarke, has been appointed to represent him, a federal judicial source told CNN. Clarke previously defended the "Unabomber," Ted Kaczynski, and assisted in the case of confessed al Qaeda operative Zacarias Moussaoui.

Could more be coming?

NBC Chicago is reporting that Illinois Congressman Danny Davis received an email threat on Sunday.

It effectively said, "Danny Davis is next." There is no indication that the message directly referenced Saturday's attack on Rep. Giffords, but NBC says the note was "presumably referring to Saturday's shooting in Tucson, Ariz."

Davis' office has notified authorities.

UPDATE: Davis tells Chicago Breaking News that the threat might have usually been ignored, but in light of Saturday's shooting it was reported. "In this climate, it pays to be as cautionary as one can be," he said. Davis also added that the emailer is somebody who has been known in the Chicago community to "do this before."

This is indeed a scary thought... regardless of his political affiliation.

I have heard that Gifford was a follower of the shooters youtube account... here is what is being reported...

Ben Smith at Politico makes an interesting catch: Giffords' YouTube account subscribes to her alleged shooter's.

The only other account Giffords subscribes to is former Representative Ike Skelton's.

A cached version of Giffords' profile shows that she didn't follow Loughner as of December 26, indicating that the subscription may have been done by a staffer after the shooting to keep an eye on any developments with the account.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/sarah-palin-statement-shooting_n_806224.html

I do not want it believed i blame Palin for anything at this point. Im waiting to see what comes from the grand jury as well as what the shooters computer may reveal before passing any judgement upon anyone.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Charles6682)
Profile   Post #: 371
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 3:27:59 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Tazzy's post above bother me A LOT.  All five charges relate to Loughner shooting fed employees.  Nothing about him shooting the others, including the nine year old girl.  Anyone know why this is the case?  Is it because these are federal charges, and charges relating to the others are filed at another level?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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Profile   Post #: 372
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 3:35:58 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		I thought the same thing when the charges were announced.

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Profile   Post #: 373
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 4:45:51 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CerVeza

I admit I am constantly amazed at the new ways leftists show how stupid they are!


And I am constantly amazed at how bigoted some people are. But at least you are obvious about it. That way I don't have to worry about missing any important info, when I skim past your posts.


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Profile   Post #: 374
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 5:07:21 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

And while we are talking about it, give me some examples of those "liberal gay bashers".


Go to one of our local Detroit churches and ask them how they feel about same sex marriage. The majority of them will tell you it's a sin and you are going to roast in hell. Now are you going to tell me that they are all conservatives?



I don't know, I don't live in Detroit and I don't go to church.

It is funny though how if someone else had made the argument you just presented you would be all over them for the generalizations you just made.



It's funny how you pretend to know what I am going to do. But you could be right. Maybe you should explain how it is generalizing to suggest that there are christians on the left as well as the right that are against gays.


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Profile   Post #: 375
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 5:19:36 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Tazzy's post above bother me A LOT.  All five charges relate to Loughner shooting fed employees.  Nothing about him shooting the others, including the nine year old girl.  Anyone know why this is the case?  Is it because these are federal charges, and charges relating to the others are filed at another level?


Im not quite sure. I do know they have not ruled out further charges. He is in federal custody... guess they come first.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 376
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 5:35:11 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		The "person of interest" has been cleared by the FBI. His name wasn't released to protect his privacy. Apparently someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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Profile   Post #: 377
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 5:36:21 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		He was the cab driver.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 378
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 5:37:17 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Shrugs, So what you are saying is that as long as you didn't actually hang a black man in the south then you really had no part in the apartheid that existed?......Spin it for your benefit DS, don't worry, your buddies will be back on radio tomorrow to spout how they aren't responsible.


WTF?  I never DID hang a black man in the South.  I never WAS in the south.  And I did demonstrate for civil rights way back when.

Tell ya what.  You quit holding ALL whites responsible for the acts of a few, and I won't consider you a racist.  You know, those people who make blanket, untrue assumptions about others based on skin color.

You'll note that in my previous post, I stated that I had never listened to right wing radio personalities.  I'm not a fan of them for several reasons.



Good lord, try not to take things so literal. Didnt accuse you of anything....nice to know that you don't think a society has any responsiblity for what its leaders decide and do.....which is complete horseshit. But, basically what I have come to expect from you

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Profile   Post #: 379
RE: Arizona Democrat Congresswoman and 11 others shot - 1/10/2011 5:44:46 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Well RapierFugue, you have the last word. I said I wasn't making any further comments on gun control. You win. Done deal...

Except you then posted again, saying nothing of value, in order to do exactly what you said you weren't going to do.

Nice one! Well done you! Way to honour the dead, and way to advance the debate. You're a star.


WTF is your problem? Okay, I have only a few minutes here because I have a son to get to. You say I was inaccurate in my refuting what you said. Other than guns, or a situation addressing guns only, I couldn't refute what you said, by your debate terms I was unaware of. Good one. There isn't anything to refute it with if you are talking a gun incident. In your eyes mass murder by gun was the only thing I could use to refute what you said and therefore by your decree of what can be used in this debate or for mass murder to prove guns are bad... was guns... so yes... they are bad. You win.

My inaccurate... was my opinion that if someone wants to kill many people, there are other ways other than guns and if they wish to do it, they will find a way. They can use a gun or other things. One way or another they can get the deed done. How is that inaccurate except by your debate terms of only speaking of guns?

As for honoring the dead and all that bs you said... whatever. I guess you can read minds and hearts as well as create debate terms. Now, here's my debate term. It is a done deal for me. I am not going to sit here and fill my day with a stupid argument.. not that the topic is stupid.. but the arguing is. I am done. You did pull me in implying I was dishonorable... it won't happen again. Say what you will.



Just block the fucker.      He is a Subject- not a Sovereign- like we are.

(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 380
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