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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/17/2011 5:43:47 AM

ThePeripatetic

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Thanks for posting this link... I'll give it a more thorough read when I get some free time.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/17/2011 5:50:15 AM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

BDSM and Feminism
Tammy Jo Eckhart
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/sister/BDSM.html

Cheers. I didn't agree with some of the points, but an interesting read.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/17/2011 8:45:32 PM

naughtynick81

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Feminism and BDSM will never mix as what Peon was saying...

quote:

a feminist is someone who believes in freedom and equality

The feminists in BDSM sites crack me up...well nearly all contemporary feminists in the western world crack me up actually

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/17/2011 8:59:07 PM

PeonForHer

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Ducks and carburettors are made to do different things in different galaxies, Nick.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/17/2011 9:23:24 PM

naughtynick81

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Peon, feminists only seem to want equality when it suits them. Not under the circumstance of equality in every way of life 24/7. Equality basically means equality, 24/7 365 days a year.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 2:01:16 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

Peon, feminists only seem to want equality when it suits them. Not under the circumstance of equality in every way of life 24/7. Equality basically means equality, 24/7 365 days a year.

In that kind of absolutist world, there's no room for a power dynamic in any case. Feminism, as a case for equality between the genders, is a nice thing -- maybe calling it "peoplism' instead of "feminism" would get the point across better... but I find it interesting that nobody asks the questions "Does a guy that holds on to the idea of male supremacy make him a bad authority figure?" like they're implying that a woman who holds on to the idea of -female- supremacy makes her a bad authority figure. To me, I wouldn't be comfortable yielding authority to -either- of them, but you know, there's a HUGE double standard playing out right here on CC, and I think that it is this pervasive double standard that reinforces the impression that we still need "feminism".

Calla

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 2:32:39 AM

ThePeripatetic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

BDSM and Feminism
Tammy Jo Eckhart
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/sister/BDSM.html

Cheers. I didn't agree with some of the points, but an interesting read.

I'm curious Peon, what points exactly didn't you agree with?

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 2:52:23 AM

naughtynick81

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I have asked this question to many feminists. Why call themselves feminists if they are truly about gender equality? I think "humanists" sounds better instead of a one sided view. If a movement only cares about women, it's not equality. Such as VAWA. It's female centred, not equality centred

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 6:23:28 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThePeripatetic
I'm curious Peon, what points exactly didn't you agree with?

I think if I were to get into them here it'd lead the thread way off track and into an area that almost caused a civil war here at CM a while ago, TP.

The main thing is I thought it was a good article. I think she puts her finger on it.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 7:14:53 PM

Tantriqu

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I am a humanist, in the sense that both sexes are equal, and women still aren't treated equal [from Sharia law, to asking JK Rowling why she didn't identify herself as female, or go get a shirt dry-cleaned but call it a blouse, or get a table in a restaurant under the name 'Debbie' or 'Donald', and see how close to the kitchen you get].
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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 9:43:29 PM

naughtynick81

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^ The Sharia Law thing I agree on but the other examples are ludicrous. Besides, it's only in them certain countries. Sharia Law has nothing to do with western societies and for that, it can't be claimed that every woman on the planet is not treated equal.

People need to stop over turning rocks to look for anything to claim female victim status on when there is nothing else to claim. When there is nothing left to claim female victim status, feminists will simply make shit up! Feminists seem to also make mole hills into mountains and go hysterical over something that's not really a big deal. Things that any functional person can brush off their shoulders and move on. They will desperately resort to anything really just so it looks justified that feminism should still exist in the western world 2011. And basically just another excuse to take a cheap shot at men. The dead horse has been beaten far too much, in fact, feminists are just beating a carcass now. Feminists these days simply use the feminist label in the guise of their hatred they have towards men. It may make many feel that the feminist label actually gives them a license to hate men.

Don't get me wrong, feminism did some wonderful things in the past. It used to be a validated cause. But now the feminists these days simply invalidate the good name the movement once had.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 10:03:08 PM

Wickad

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(fast reply)

I don't usually try to introduce myself into conversations with folks who have rigid views and who are unlikely to listen to nor care to even admit there is another side. However, I'm really happy to see naughtynick81's last post. It really does say a great deal about the person behind the nickname.

Now if anyone takes him up on what he is offering ... well, it's there own damn fault. LOL

Wickad

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 10:16:56 PM

naughtynick81

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Well you see Wickad, if I had or anyone had the same types of views towards masculism, that person would not be deemed as a troll, asshole, sexist etc etc. The double standard is bloody obvious and yet even the most educated people pretend it doesn't exist. Around of applause for political correctness

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/18/2011 10:54:48 PM

ThePeripatetic

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Naughtynick... I think what Wickad is getting at (I apologize if I'm incorrectly paraphrasing) is that you've done yourself and everyone else a disservice by posting on a discussion forum harshly critical points of view that leave no room for further discussion. It's not so much a matter of being politically correct or not, but more about using a bit of tact to get your point across yet still leave room for healthy debate. You're certainly entitled to voice your opinion but perhaps be more mindful that others may have some valid points as well.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/19/2011 12:30:49 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

Feminism and BDSM will never mix as what Peon was saying...

quote:

a feminist is someone who believes in freedom and equality

Funny you should say that, Nick. I'm both a feminist and a submissive and I have no issues with the combination at all. You see, I am most certainly the equal of any man I choose as a partner, and I am just as certainly free to choose the type of relationship that I want. It just happens that said relationship is not equal when it comes to who is in charge. My choice in a relationship is one where the Dominant is in charge and the submissive follows his lead. To paraphrase Aqua's sig, "We are equal, but our roles are different".

It seems to me that you are confusing equality as a human being with equality in relationship dynamics, and that is where your post goes off the tracks. Either that, or you are yet again confusing the terms 'bottom' and 'submissive', as you are the former and still have no clue about the latter.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 1/19/2011 12:45:48 AM >

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/19/2011 12:44:22 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

People need to stop over turning rocks to look for anything to claim female victim status on when there is nothing else to claim. When there is nothing left to claim female victim status, feminists will simply make shit up!

Just... LOL. Thanks for the 'educated' opinion, Nick. I intend to take up a collection to buy you a clue.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/19/2011 1:10:32 AM

Wickad

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ThePeripatetic,

Well, that's not really what I meant at all, ... but I'm not going to turn this into a flame war in order to debate my opinion with a metaphoric wall. I do have more productive things to do like, .... well, anything - lol.

Wickad

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/19/2011 1:52:16 AM

ThePeripatetic

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My bad Wickad.

Hmmm, well anyways, not sure what else there is to say... naughtynick pretty much has it all figured out for us, no need in debating this any further I suppose.

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/19/2011 2:36:50 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: naughtynick81

CallaFirestormBW

I have asked this question to many feminists. Why call themselves feminists if they are truly about gender equality? I think "humanists" sounds better instead of a one sided view. If a movement only cares about women, it's not equality. Such as VAWA. It's female centred, not equality centred

I think that part of the problem may be that there isn't an effective term for the "next step". Using the term "humanist", while accurate, would provide substantial confusion since it is already used by a particular philosophical path that many women do not find themselves inclined to follow (secular humanism).

I wonder, some days, whether all the drive we have to "label" ourselves into neat pockets that are easily defined in a sound-byte or two inhibits our ability to actually reach any kind of widely expansive goal like "acceptance and equality regardless of race, hair color, gender, who one loves, how many tattoos one has... "

Calla

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RE: Feminism & BDSM - 1/19/2011 10:26:40 PM

bobbliestut2

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Yes I have run into writings by Andrea Dworkin. I lived in NYC for many years. I do not think that women should settle for just equality.

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