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RE: New Trend? - 1/13/2011 8:09:39 PM

Need4Squeeze

Posts: 25
Joined: 12/26/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: couldbemage

Amongst younger people man and woman carry an unspoken yet implied "old".

Most of my vanilla friends always use girl when referring to women close enough in age to be potential partners. Culture changes with time...

Totally agree with this.
I think that's what I was trying to elude to in my earlier post. In the 'vanilla world' most women like to be young or be seen as being young. If I call a woman a girl it's often because I see her as a peer ("close enough in age to be potential partners"). If I call an older woman a girl, it's meant as a flirty compliment.

On a related note, I've been thinking about all these rules and protocols within this scene. I've been kinky all my life but have only recently joined this site and begun interacting with 'the scene'. I find it kind of odd, the amount of importance most Dommes place on strict language and terms etc...
I mean here are these powerful (sometimes scary) looking Women, dressed in leather, latex, fishnets and big cool boots. They often have a whip in their hand. They have guys grovelling at their feet and licking their shoes. They have guys tied up, completely under their control, totally at their mercy and begging them. They have guys suffocating under their asses. Guys worship them and treat them like a Goddess. They have guys wanting to serve them and please them.
Isn't that Dominating enough?
They have all that and yet some still worry about calling them a Woman with a capital 'W'?! All the strict rules and protocols could actually be seen as insecurities.

I've known and loved some naturally dominant women. They were confident, fearless, aggressive and comfortable with their gender (an ex-girlfriend of mine was a kick boxer and I'm sure she could have beaten the crap out of most of the Dommes here). They may not have dressed like a Dominatrix but they could still be kinky and dominant in the bedroom. I know that's different to the 'lifestyle' and is a separate issue... I'm beginning to rant.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that 'personally', some of the rules and protocols seem kind of fake and forced to me. Unnecessary, is probably the best word.
I'm submissive and I like Dominant Women. I like some of the 'fetish fashion', although it isn't essential. But all these rules etc. in the scene, probably just alienates a lot of people who may otherwise have been interested. It's like an exclusive club, with those who know it all and those who don't, not welcome or worthy.Who made these rules and why should I or anyone else follow them? Same goes for all the labels. We're all individuals...

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Post #: 41

RE: New Trend? - 1/13/2011 10:07:51 PM

SylvereApLeanan

Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Need4Squeeze

On a related note, I've been thinking about all these rules and protocols within this scene. I've been kinky all my life but have only recently joined this site and begun interacting with 'the scene'. I find it kind of odd, the amount of importance most Dommes place on strict language and terms etc...

Oh here we go...

Try to remember that your experience is yours. It is not necessarily indicative of the majority of dominant women worldwide. Or even on this site, for that matter. For example, I'm not big on protocol. In a formal setting, and by that I mean a fetish ball or something similar, I prefer to be addressed as Ma'am or by my name, depending who who's speaking and how familiar we are. Ms. Sylvere or Ms. ap Leanan are also acceptable. It's pretty much how you'd expect to be addressed by friends, acquaintances, or strangers in the vanilla world. Only the person (or people) wearing my collar get to address me as Mistress.

quote:

I mean here are these powerful (sometimes scary) looking Women,

Hmm...nope. I'm five feet, three inches (appx. 160cm), weigh about 122 pounds (appx. 55 kilos), and I have small enough bones to wear my great-grandfather's baby ring on my little finger. I'm probably the least intimidating looking person I know.

quote:

dressed in leather, latex, fishnets and big cool boots. They often have a whip in their hand.

Jeans and t-shirts, mostly, unless I decide to Goth out. I own fetish attire but I rarely wear it. I don't know how to use a whip. (My riding crop is another story.)

quote:

They have guys grovelling at their feet and licking their shoes. They have guys tied up, completely under their control, totally at their mercy and begging them. They have guys suffocating under their asses. Guys worship them and treat them like a Goddess. They have guys wanting to serve them and please them.

Where? Not in my world. Trust me when I say I do not have blokes lining up to grovel at my feet. Not even remotely.

quote:

Isn't that Dominating enough?
They have all that and yet some still worry about calling them a Woman with a capital 'W'?!

Depends on the woman in question. Maybe you missed my earlier post where I said I don't really care much whether or not someone calls me "girl" unless the person is blatantly trying to be offensive.

quote:

All the strict rules and protocols could actually be seen as insecurities.

Failure to ask how a women prefers to be addressed and/or abiding by her wishes could be seen as being an asshat. Read some past threads and you'll find that the majority of women on this board prefer to be addressed by whatever screen name they've chosen. Most dislike being called by any type of honorific, such as Goddess, Mistress, or Princess. It's not about protocol as much as it's about respecting the woman enough to ask rather than assuming you know what to call her before you've even exchanged three words.

quote:

I'm beginning to rant.

Um, yeah. You might want to monitor that.

quote:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that 'personally', some of the rules and protocols seem kind of fake and forced to me. Unnecessary, is probably the best word....But all these rules etc. in the scene, probably just alienates a lot of people who may otherwise have been interested.

Think about this for a minute. Are you saying that we, as women, don't have the right to decide how we prefer to be addressed? Or are you saying that we don't have the right to have our wishes respected by the average stranger on a kink site? Do you see how this sort of attitude could be offensive? Whether or not you might have been interested is a moot point if the first thing you do is insult the person you were trying to attract.

I don't think it's out of line to expect not to be addressed as "girl" if we don't like it. How about if someone were to call you something you don't like and didn't respect your desire not to be called that? I don't think you'd care for it. So why get brassed off when persons of the female persuasion say they dislike being called "girl"? Note the distaste for it and try to remember not to use it unless you're familiar with the person in question and she's ok with it. How hard is that?

quote:

It's like an exclusive club, with those who know it all and those who don't, not welcome or worthy.

Oh, goodie...the Power Clique argument again. No, it's really not a club, it's basic courtesy. If you can't muster the courtesy to ask first, then maybe you're not worthy. However, there are plenty of us who are tolerant of newcomers and have the patience to educate as long as the newbies are polite and don't expect to be spoonfed answers to basic questions that can be easily researched with Google. If there's a club, it's not terribly difficult to join. There are plenty of people, male and female, dominant, sub, and switch, who belong to it.

quote:

Who made these rules and why should I or anyone else follow them?

Emily Post and because it's the courteous thing to do.

quote:

We're all individuals...

There ya go.

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Post #: 42

RE: New Trend? - 1/13/2011 11:48:17 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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Sylvere did a great job in her response coming from her perspective. I wanted to add a few words here coming from someone who is more protocol oriented.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Need4Squeeze
On a related note, I've been thinking about all these rules and protocols within this scene. I've been kinky all my life but have only recently joined this site and begun interacting with 'the scene'. I find it kind of odd, the amount of importance most Dommes place on strict language and terms etc...

This may seem odd, but I actually suggest that folks consider protocol a compatibility point when searching for a dynamic. Some people are happier with a more laid back style and other people prefer a more formal atmosphere. We've had a number of threads here from people who have felt the effects when the two persons involved were on different sides of the spectrum. It can cause problems when they don't match in this area.

quote:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that 'personally', some of the rules and protocols seem kind of fake and forced to me. Unnecessary, is probably the best word.

Which is ok, for you. At the same time, you have to understand that other people might feel differently. Some folks actually desire a higher level of protocol.

quote:

I'm submissive and I like Dominant Women. I like some of the 'fetish fashion', although it isn't essential. But all these rules etc. in the scene, probably just alienates a lot of people who may otherwise have been interested. It's like an exclusive club, with those who know it all and those who don't, not welcome or worthy.Who made these rules and why should I or anyone else follow them? Same goes for all the labels. We're all individuals...

This is the part that I really wanted to address. I'm not a fetishist who wears leather. I'm a leather person and that is something completely different. To Me, leather is a lifestyle, not a fashion statement. Leather folks are not your average person interested in BDSM. We're not the only ones. There are various cultures under the umbrella of wiitwd.

I'll agree with you on one of your points. Leather isn't for everybody and if your not big on protocols, rituals, etc it's probably not for you. Where I'll disagree with you is that it alienates people. A lot of people who get their first exposure to the leather culture have a feeling of coming home because they know that is the way they want to live.

It's actually the opposite of an exclusive club. Leather events across the country specifically advertise that a person doesn't have to be leather to attend. Often, that's the way that folks start learning about the way leather folks structure protocol into their lives. A high majority of leather conferences will include a beginning class on protocol and rituals. There are also other resources for learning about it that leather folks have had in publication for decades. The quick version is patterned pretty much of a variation on how military protocols work, with some Emily Post and other types of formalities sprinkled in.

For those who would prefer not to get involved in the leather culture because they feel alienated, I'm actually good with that, too. We're not short on folks in our culture where changing the way we do things to make the new generation happy is all that high on the list. Our community grows just fine with those who are wanting the kind of protocols that we practice. There's still a very big BDSM world out there if the protocol thing isn't for you.

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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Post #: 43

RE: New Trend? - 1/14/2011 1:30:41 AM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Need4Squeeze
I mean here are these powerful (sometimes scary) looking Women, dressed in leather, latex, fishnets and big cool boots. They often have a whip in their hand. They have guys grovelling at their feet and licking their shoes. They have guys tied up, completely under their control, totally at their mercy and begging them. They have guys suffocating under their asses. Guys worship them and treat them like a Goddess. They have guys wanting to serve them and please them.

I think you've been watching too much bad porn. Mostly we're not like that. Mostly we're just fellow human beings who happen to be into the lifestyle, have an XX chromosone and are oriented to prefer the D side of the D/s relationship. That doesn't mean we have a D/s relationship with you, or that we want one.

quote:

They have all that and yet some still worry about calling them a Woman with a capital 'W'?! All the strict rules and protocols could actually be seen as insecurities.

I don't give a damn if you capitalize it or not, but I do consider myself an adult and I do object to being referred to as a child.

quote:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that 'personally', some of the rules and protocols seem kind of fake and forced to me. Unnecessary, is probably the best word.

So basic courtesy and respecting other people's boundaries is unnecessary? Boy, is that attitude ever gonna get you far in life.

Ya know what? Fuck protocol. I don't even care if you call me "dude" or otherwise talk to me in a totally casual way like an equal. That really is fine with me. Talk to me adult to adult, without using words that connote inferior status, and I'm cool with that. You can talk to me as an equal. But you don't get to address me as an inferior, or as a little child, or in a diminutive or condescending way. I do not expect you to talk to me as if I was your superior or your dominant, but you don't get to talk to me like I was your submissive either.

quote:

Who made these rules and why should I or anyone else follow them?

Emily Fucking Post, dude. If you are talking to another adult, have reasonable respect for what they say their boundaries are. If they ask you not to, do not address them as if they were a young child, or of lesser status or station than you. That is not an unreasonable request for anyone to make, regardless of their gender or D/s orientation.

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Post #: 44

RE: New Trend? - 1/14/2011 2:47:18 AM

Need4Squeeze

Posts: 25
Joined: 12/26/2010
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ok, I was expecting to get slapped for my rather hastily added, ill thought out 'side note'. But that 3 way beating was brutal! (lol)

So who's this Emily Post? Some kind of 'Tuff Chick'?

(I'm kidding, I Googled her)

If a Lady dosn't want me to call her a girl, then I wont call her a girl. End of story. I'll call her whatever she wants.
I am polite and respectful whenever messaging someone or talking in person. I'm very polite. But my broad generalizations were more about the 'hardcore' element within the scene (and others who just think they are hardcore), who's demands (to me) seem to be a bit overboard.
This impression has been formed from looking at a LOT of Dominant Women profiles here at CM, over the last few weeks. I never said "all" Dommes or Women. I was also reading a thread at FetLife explaining the protocols at a BDSM club. Eg: a sub is not allowed to speak unless given permission from their Owner (not even to say hello to someone they know). A Domme/Master is not allowed to speak to a sub without asking the permission of the Owner, etc... I can see the appeal as a fun sort of game, creating a pretend, alternate world but it seems a bit silly. But whatever floats your boat, I guess.
Also, I didn't say that the leather or fashion alienated people (I like it). I was talking about some of these strict rules of protocol.
And I'm not trying to change the world, just airing some thoughts.
I was hoping to gain some more insight and some of the replies have given me a bit.

btw, this probably isn't the time or place but I really like your profile LadyNTrainer!

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Post #: 45

RE: New Trend? - 1/14/2011 9:29:20 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

If you were hoping to gain insight, why do you term it a three way beating when people try to give it to you? I know you were joking. At least, I would hope you were because otherwise, I would think you were over-sensitive.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the thread that you're reading on Fet has to do with a leather association or a high protocol evening for a club. Most BDSM clubs don't run on high protocol unless they are doing it for a special occasion. It's the norm for some leather clubs, but not BDSM.

_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Post #: 46

RE: New Trend? - 1/14/2011 10:09:39 AM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Need4Squeeze

ok, I was expecting to get slapped for my rather hastily added, ill thought out 'side note'. But that 3 way beating was brutal! (lol)

What's not to like about a brutal beating? Sounds yummy.

quote:

So who's this Emily Post? Some kind of 'Tuff Chick'?

She's a hot MMA cage fighter who will totally lay a beatdown on your ass if you cross her. She has this fetish for good grammar and proper etiquette. Don't fuck with her, man.

quote:

If a Lady dosn't want me to call her a girl, then I wont call her a girl. End of story. I'll call her whatever she wants.

That's all there is to it, really. A lot of guys object to being called "boy" for the same reasons some of us don't like being called "girl". Others wear either or both labels as a term of pride. It's up to the individual and their preferences.

quote:

I am polite and respectful whenever messaging someone or talking in person. I'm very polite. But my broad generalizations were more about the 'hardcore' element within the scene (and others who just think they are hardcore), who's demands (to me) seem to be a bit overboard.

Thing is, ain't nobody here but us chickens. Or us real people, more to the point. I don't know anyone on these forums who acts like that, and on the rare occasions we get somebody who does, they get lol'd and trolled back off again in short order.

quote:

This impression has been formed from looking at a LOT of Dominant Women profiles here at CM, over the last few weeks.

My guess is they're either findommes or they think this is what guys expect. The stereotypical culture of femdom isn't actually all that much fun for women, as it tends to focus on what the woman is wearing and doing to the man and demanding of the man a lot more than it focuses on what the man looks like, how hot he is, and how it feels to get to enjoy him and use him. It tends to be sex-negative and distant rather than hot and intimate. This culture tends to be more of a male projection of how women are supposed to be (eg, nice girls who say no to sex and who are Mommy-like stern disciplinarians) than what adult women with healthy sexual appetites who happen to be dominant actually fantasize about.

quote:

I was also reading a thread at FetLife explaining the protocols at a BDSM club. Eg: a sub is not allowed to speak unless given permission from their Owner (not even to say hello to someone they know). A Domme/Master is not allowed to speak to a sub without asking the permission of the Owner, etc... I can see the appeal as a fun sort of game, creating a pretend, alternate world but it seems a bit silly. But whatever floats your boat, I guess.

The fuuuuck? Again, I think you're looking at bad porn. High protocol in-role events do exist, but they are incredibly rare and usually made up of very small groups of people who all know each other and who are basically scening together for the evening. 99.99% of BDSM events are not like this. It's not really practical for them to be. Subs are pretty well represented in leadership positions in the community, doing a fair bit of event organizing and logistics. It's hard to work and play at the same time, and the high protocol scene you're describing is definitely play time.

Most people don't consent to randomly play with strangers, which is why uber high protocol and all doms expecting all subs to behave and speak submissively to them doesn't actually work so well. As a dominant, I for one don't consent to accept a random stranger's submission if I don't know them.

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Post #: 47

RE: New Trend? - 1/15/2011 1:03:24 AM

Need4Squeeze

Posts: 25
Joined: 12/26/2010
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quote:

Again, I think you're looking at bad porn.

The only reason I look at so much bad porn, is because so much Femdom porn is bad. Bad acting, stupid roleplay, terrible dialogue and worst of all, some Woman just going through the motions without any enthusiasm or real joy. I like it when the Woman is obviously and genuinely enjoying it, getting into it and ultimately, getting off on it (while doing something that I enjoy doing). Also my interests are rather selective, so a lot of it I find unappealing and a turn off.

quote:

If you were hoping to gain insight, why do you term it a three way beating when people try to give it to you? I know you were joking. At least, I would hope you were because otherwise, I would think you were over-sensitive.

Yes, I was joking... I am sensitive but nothing said was nasty. I've noticed LadyPact, that you are particularly tolerant and patient to newbies (good karma for you). But even if you did say bad things, I wouldn't take offense. I may say stupid things on occasions but none of you really knows me or what I am like.

quote:

What's not to like about a brutal beating? Sounds yummy.

lol LadyNTrainer, I was thinking the same thing actually... I'd probably enjoy that.
And it would be a more effective way to get your point across!
Actions speak so much louder than words. Sadly, this is the internet, where there are no actions, only words...

Thank you all for your insights.
And my apologies for highjacking this thread.

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Post #: 48

RE: New Trend? - 1/15/2011 9:05:10 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Need4Squeeze
The only reason I look at so much bad porn, is because so much Femdom porn is bad. Bad acting, stupid roleplay, terrible dialogue and worst of all, some Woman just going through the motions without any enthusiasm or real joy. I like it when the Woman is obviously and genuinely enjoying it, getting into it and ultimately, getting off on it (while doing something that I enjoy doing). Also my interests are rather selective, so a lot of it I find unappealing and a turn off.

Then stop watching it. LOL.

quote:

Yes, I was joking... I am sensitive but nothing said was nasty. I've noticed LadyPact, that you are particularly tolerant and patient to newbies (good karma for you). But even if you did say bad things, I wouldn't take offense. I may say stupid things on occasions but none of you really knows me or what I am like.

First off, you're not hijacking this thread. The reason that I created it in the first place was so we could learn something. If that's happening here, we're doing ok. Not that I think that a person who creates a thread owns it or anything, because it really doesn't work like that.

As for the patient and tolerant part, that really depends on the approach. When people honestly want to learn about a subject, I can be, but in My case, it's got everything to do with the way they are going about it. I'm not nearly as good when folks are coming across like they are looking for wank material or some such thing.

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Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Post #: 49

RE: New Trend? - 1/15/2011 12:55:35 PM

Tantriqu

Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
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I find the word 'girl' disrespectful, and denies my age, wisdom and experience.

It's a litmus test, like finding out a would-be sub is squicked by pubic hair: he's likely too indoctrinated, having watched too much anti-female porn or rap videos, and would probably even use the 'b' word.

Here's an amusing one: female pubic hair should indeed look like a map of the island of Tasmania, not a pre-pubescent or a male, but for me, not in curlers, either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B8omCWBl8s

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RE: New Trend? - 1/15/2011 3:01:58 PM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Need4Squeeze
The only reason I look at so much bad porn, is because so much Femdom porn is bad. Bad acting, stupid roleplay, terrible dialogue and worst of all, some Woman just going through the motions without any enthusiasm or real joy. I like it when the Woman is obviously and genuinely enjoying it, getting into it and ultimately, getting off on it (while doing something that I enjoy doing). Also my interests are rather selective, so a lot of it I find unappealing and a turn off.

So do I. Honestly, the majority of porn and pretty much all femdom porn is marketed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, which is to say that guy with a hot fantasy who doesn't have a real life partner. And a lot of what these guys find hot (sexy women in tight clothes catering to their fantasies) is absolutely not hot either for a heterosexual woman or a genuinely submissive man who wants to know his partner as person.

So don't watch the stuff. Srsly. It all sucks dead donkey balls, and it's usually not worth the pixels it's printed on. If you know of any femdom porn *that is actually hot and sexy* especially for dominant women to watch, porn that focuses on how sexy and helpless the guy is, and how intense the energy is between them, turn us on to it, please. I'm not convinced that it exists however.

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Post #: 51