RE: The South shall rise again??? (Full Version)

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AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:21:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

I wasn't disagreeing with you, because you didn't assert anything.   You said you wouldn't be surprised if this was true...  
quote:

2. Lots of the slaves are descended from criminals that African peoples wanted to get rid off.
My however, was regarding the same thing you were responding to.    I would think the criminals were the people selling and buying human chattel.    M

Ahh I see what. [:)]

Though I don't see why you would think the people buying and selling would be the criminals. They weren't selling their own tribe members when they captured and sold. Slavery was already practiced amongst the tribes when Europeans came to Africa, they just expanded their customer base when new customers arrived. To relate it to another culture - Jews are allowed, by the Torah to own slaves. Just not Jewish slaves, though there are a lot of terms and conditions.

So it makes complete sense to me. Group A captures some of group B as slaves to do with what they will. They sell some off and, in addition, get rid of some of their own undesirables, maybe like a death sentence only they get some cash. Group A doesn't regard the capture and sale as criminal because it doesn't violate their own laws on the matters.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:24:21 AM)

quote:

who do you think sold them to the slave traders?
What did you think I meant by this?  
quote:

I would think the criminals were the people selling and buying human chattel.



Termyn8or -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:26:23 AM)

"Jews are allowed, by the Torah to own slaves. Just not Jewish slaves"

I read somewhere that is also embodied in Israeli law, but I'm not sure if it's true. Have they yet eliminated the Kibbutzes ?

T



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:27:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

quote:

who do you think sold them to the slave traders?
What did you think I meant by this?  
quote:

I would think the criminals were the people selling and buying human chattel.



The problem is that assumes that all the tribes were bound by one law or code. They weren't. Like European countries, the other complex of "it's ok to hurt them, they aren't part of us" was in effect.



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:28:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

"Jews are allowed, by the Torah to own slaves. Just not Jewish slaves"

I read somewhere that is also embodied in Israeli law, but I'm not sure if it's true. Have they yet eliminated the Kibbutzes ?

T


Not a clue. I confess that I'm not much up on Isreali politics for a variety of reasons. So you'd have to ask elsewhere for the specifics.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:36:37 AM)

quote:

Though I don't see why you would think the people buying and selling would be the criminals.
You don't?   Is this like the poor robber is a criminal, but the rich embezzler isn't?    First, I believe it's against the law in most parts of the world nowadaays.   Personally,  I know it's an ethical question, but I don't see how involuntarily buying, and selling humans can be viewed as less than a crime, or a mortal sin (not that the religious leaders saw it that way).

quote:

They weren't selling their own tribe members when they captured and sold. Slavery was already practiced amongst the tribes when Europeans came to Africa, they just expanded their customer base when new customers arrived. To relate it to another culture - Jews are allowed, by the Torah to own slaves. Just not Jewish slaves, though there are a lot of terms and conditions.
True, but hopefully not something legally practiced anymore. 

quote:

The problem is that assumes that all the tribes were bound by one law or code. They weren't. Like European countries, the other complex of "it's ok to hurt them, they aren't part of us" was in effect.
Oh no, I don't assume that at all.   Humans have always had the potential and desire to feel "more right, more powerful, more rich, better..." than "the others."    Racism makes no sense whatsoever...  Biology says, genes are stronger when mixed with different sets.   But we (generic) all want to feel more special than the next person.    M



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:42:32 AM)

Oh for goodness sake... That is both offensive and idiotic.

I pointed out that the what they did was not regarded as illegal by their tribe and you have the nerve to ask me if *I* think it's criminal?

What *I*, a 25 year old woman living 2011 with degree thinks has no relevance on what men and women thought in various parts of the world in the 1600s to the 1700s. I can not go back in time and teach them. I can only study how and why it happened in the hopes of teaching people not to do it now.

If you can not see the difference between explaining the thinking of a society hundreds of years ago and agreeing with it, you have a lot of learning to do.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:47:12 AM)

You're incredibly easy to offend, since none of what I've said here is personal.   Idiotic?  If that gets you through the night, who am I to take it away.
quote:

I don't see why you would think the people buying and selling would be the criminals.
Were you being Ironic with this statement?    I thought we were just having a discussion.     M



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 12:52:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SexyBossyBBW

You're incredibly easy to offend, since none of what I've said here is personal.   Idiotic?  If that gets you through the night, who am I to take it away.
quote:

I don't see why you would think the people buying and selling would be the criminals.
Were you being Ironic with this statement?    I thought we were just having a discussion.     M


ETA: Since you mentioned the modern slave trade I thought I'd spell it out for you: I'm talking about history and a specific part of it. If you want to discuss the modern slave trade, feel free to open a new thread. [:)]

We were until you brought my morality into question by implying I have no personal issue with it.

To be a criminal one has to break the law. They were not breaking their laws therefore they were not criminals.

It's a pretty easy thing to understand. Criminals break the laws. They didn't break laws.

So if you think people who were acting within the laws of their time were criminals, have fun. The proper question would be "Do you find that ethical?"

And no, I don't.



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:13:51 AM)

quote:

If you can not see the difference between explaining the thinking of a society hundreds of years ago and agreeing with it, you have a lot of learning to do.
You take my calling them criminals, feel you have to explain to me that it wasn't illegal (in the law books) at the time, duh.   I cannot afford to look at the actions of the past as legal, or ethical, just because I live in a time where the law has caught up with humanity.  

Than you take my comments regarding your statement (discussion, not personal feeling of yours I thought)
quote:

I don't see why you would think the people buying and selling would be the criminals.
personally, get defensive, condescending, and vulgar.    As I said, whatever gets you through the night.   M



Charles6682 -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:16:31 AM)

Slavery is okay in this lifestyle!!Under a different mindset of course!Just trying to ease the tension![sm=hippie.gif]



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:20:22 AM)

Thank God for that.  [8D]   M



gungadin09 -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:20:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles6682

It does appear that intolerance is still a factor in the South.

Well, technically, intolerance is a factor everywhere.

Now,the Civil War is long over as it should be. However,theres still a few in the South who like to say the "South shall rise again".Clearly,some Southerns still have resentments towards the North for winning the Civil War.I dont know,if the North lost,would Yankees feel this way?

i think both sides would have resented losing, but the South probably more so. I'm sure that for many Southerners it felt like being conquered by a foreign country. What would have happened if Japan had seized possession of Hawaii in WWII? i suspect that for many years the Hawaiians would have said, "Some day Hawaii will rise up from this hostile occupation." It's understandable that people who lost their autonomy would feel that way, whether the war was right or wrong.

...I know many good Southerns.

Of course you do.

...However in modern day times,lets just say I have noticed more racism in the South.

i wouldn't know. i've never been to the South, nor do i follow politics that closely..

...I see the intolerance more aimed towards gay and those who disagree with them...Why is that? Is the South really mad at the Federal government because to them,it still represents the North that defeated them

i'm not sure that being against gays is the same thing as being against the Federal government. But if the South is more intolerant as a rule, then i don't know why. If You live down there, why not ask the locals? i'm sure they could explain what they think better than i could.


i believe that there are some significant cultural differences between the North and the South. (There were far greater differences at the time of the war than there are now). It's normal that that would be a source of tension. It's also normal for there to be regional pride. i'm not sure what your question is, exactly.

pam



Rule -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:21:31 AM)

Umm ... AquaticSub has survived on these forums for nearly fifteen thousand posts, and is a green and huge hulk. You have a little bit more than two hundred posts.

Now, I am not commenting on whether you are right or wrong, SexyBossyBBW, but perhaps it would be wise to take a step back and a pause, instead of setting yourself up to be trampled like by a herd of wild elephants?



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:21:56 AM)

Calling them criminals is inaccurate as they weren't breaking the laws. Of course I explained that they weren't breaking the law - when one willfully uses incorrect terminology one has to expect to be corrected.

If you find my posts vulgar, that is your opinion though I regard it in the same light as referring to law-abiding people as criminals. By the way, if you are seeking to avoid judging the past and those in it, you need to use correct and unloaded terms. Just an FYI.

But hey ... As you say, whatever gets you through the night. If incorrect terms is your thing, go for it! [:)]



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:25:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

Umm ... AquaticSub has survived on these forums for nearly fifteen thousand posts, and is a green and huge hulk.



AQUA SMASH!

*snickers*



Rule -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:27:29 AM)

lol [;)]



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:29:45 AM)

I think coloring my pic green on an impulse was one of the better things I've done. It's led to so many funny quips. [:)]



SexyBossyBBW -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:32:14 AM)

Rule, you're assuming I'm new to the boards.
You're also assuming that this would be the first time I'd have to survive a trampling at collarme.    This is the net!   How bad can a trampling hurt anyway? lol      M



AquaticSub -> RE: The South shall rise again??? (1/12/2011 1:35:03 AM)

It's ok - you aren't really on danger. I don't trample. Watch out for the other redheads though.



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