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10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Reserv... - 1/12/2011 12:26:09 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Reserve Had Never Been Created
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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 12:52:05 PM   
Lucylastic


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Status: offline 		just from the title havent read the post..
if your aunt had testicles she would be your uncle
in other words
what ifs are not relevent


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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 1:41:14 PM   
mnottertail


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what would you rather eat or an egg sandwich?

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 1:45:19 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 2:20:44 PM   
Termyn8or


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I'll have to go with the others on this. I have a pretty good idea how it would be and will not comment on whether it would be better or worse. Reason being that some of it is not acceptable in public. Another reason is that there is no point in doting over what might have been, even if it was Shangri-La.

In my view, if one is to fantasize, it should be about the future, not the past.

T

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 3:02:16 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Status: offline 		#1 on the list is we wouldnt have to put up with yet another asinine Federal Reserve post.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 3:46:43 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		For one, we'd have had much higher inflation.

The piece also doesn't understand the difference between the Fed and the Treasury, and mistakenly believes we had no debt before the Fed.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/12/2011 3:48:39 PM >

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 3:50:52 PM   
DomKen


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I think I'm going to write a boilerplate post explaining that US currency is not debt. That way I can just cut and paste it every time this ridiculous meme comes up.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 4:56:27 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

For one, we'd have had much higher inflation.

The piece also doesn't understand the difference between the Fed and the Treasury, and mistakenly believes we had no debt before the Fed.




The dollar is worth 4 cents.  Yay for the fed!   Yay!    YAAAAYYYY

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 4:56:56 PM   
Termyn8or


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"#1 on the list is we wouldnt have to put up with yet another asinine Federal Reserve post."

Yup. But then opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Comtemplate how it would be ? Sure, if you have the time. I find the issue absorbing enough without speculative hindsight, as well as what I should be doing to adjust.

"For one, we'd have had much higher inflation."

Yes indeed, and the situation would've been corrected long before any of us were born. They put the fucking problem on us, and yet we still do nothing about it. A quick look at the debt over the years tells much. It was fine when debt service was a small part of the economy. The good old days.

"I think I'm going to write a boilerplate post explaining that US currency is not debt"

Your boilerplater license is as good as anyone's. If you can explain away this debt, you should seek employment with the government. Unfortunately the holders of our debt do not have reciprocity, and to assume that those who loan money don't ever want it back is not a sound stance. Pay or explain, it really doesn't matter anymore. Maybe that's what you mean. I'd also like a short treatise on how what was borrowed was not loaned, if possible.




One sheeple a long time ago told me that the debt was money that the government owed itself. This is how people think. Maybe I'm not people. Whenever I borrowed money the lender wanted it back. If you have found this to be untrue, please tell me who to borrow money from. I'll be honest. I just want to borrow enough to live comfortably for the rest of my life without working. Don't worry, your kids will be able to pay it, since things are looking so good. Raising the debt doen't matter at all, because we will not have to pay it. And in that lies the truth that there is no debt. Debt that you don't have to pay back is what ? My vocabulary fails me.

T

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 5:13:16 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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Status: offline 		The interest is never created.  Even if it was created- the interest on the interest would not be created.

On 14 tril- that is some serious bananas.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 5:22:50 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

A quick look at the debt over the years tells much


No, it doesn't.

Inflation isn't dependent on debt, and we've had plenty of it without debt and before the Fed.

Look at all the nations and their central banks. The ones with more independent central banks have the lowest inflation historically.

And right now--we have record low inflation, even flirting with deflation...a serious problem for your assertion.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/12/2011 5:23:52 PM >

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 5:30:18 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Oh PULEASZEEEEEEEEEEE!


Deflation my ass!

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 5:44:12 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		Gee, as long as you have reasons, I guess.

Another response pulled from your ass.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 5:48:27 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		Inflation ? Sorry but even the use of that word indicates a shallow understanding of the subject. Nothing inflates, it is the USD which deflates. Sometimes it is hard to see because of other active forces applied to the situation. Nothing has changed value much, except the money.

When you print money without solid backing, devaluation is inevitable. Period. It's not that each USD is backed by the "full" faith and credit of the issuer, it's that all dollars collectively are, and that value does not change easily. The total value of the dollars, all of them together is what we are worth. That's what happens once a currency is agreed upon.

Inflation does not exist. Never did. It's a buzzword, like publican or demykrat. It means nothing. It's an aggregated figure derived only partly from the relative value of the currency at hand. Each piece of that currency, not the whole body of currency in circulation. Also other factor affect that misleading figure. Actual values, when they change relatively, skew the figure one way or the other unless the accounting and weight is properly assigned to each variable. Nobody seems to have done that successfully, and if you think they have, you are mistaken.

Enough for now Tim. I don't want to be an asshole, nothing of the sort but I will say this. There is a part of this puzzle of which either you are unaware or not giving proper weight. I'm not sure what it is but I suspect that you have your numbers predigested. If I figure it out I'll let you know, but so much for that idea now because I simply can't read your mind.

And even if you started as a teenager with a hundred buck broker account and are now a multi-billionaire, that does not make you right. From a certain perspective you can see things others can't. By the same token I can see things you can't, and/or others as well.

T

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 5:55:28 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
"I think I'm going to write a boilerplate post explaining that US currency is not debt"

Your boilerplater license is as good as anyone's. If you can explain away this debt, you should seek employment with the government. Unfortunately the holders of our debt do not have reciprocity, and to assume that those who loan money don't ever want it back is not a sound stance. Pay or explain, it really doesn't matter anymore. Maybe that's what you mean. I'd also like a short treatise on how what was borrowed was not loaned, if possible.

Note I'm not in the mood for your claims of superior knowledge so if you make any claim what so ever be prepared to back it up.

The dollar is a symbol. It allows for a more complicated economy than standard barter would allow. The dollar has no intrinsic value.

When a dollar is printed there is no corresponding debit/credit on the US governments books beyond the actual costs of manufacturing and transporting/distributing that dollar. There is no debt necessarily created when a dollar is created.

The government could quite simply pay off all existing government debt by simply printing enough money to pay off the various Treasury bonds as they mature. It would cause massive hyperinflation and the probably collapse of the US economy but it could be done.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 5:59:36 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Now we are getting somewhere.

The govt does not create money.  A private corporation does that- of which we are to pay interest to said enterprise.   Hence it can never be repaid- because the interest is never created.    even if it were- the interest on that interest is not created.   all of which is paid to PRIVATE entity- not the govt.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 6:06:00 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Now we are getting somewhere.

The govt does not create money.  A private corporation does that- of which we are to pay interest to said enterprise.   Hence it can never be repaid- because the interest is never created.    even if it were- the interest on that interest is not created.   all of which is paid to PRIVATE entity- not the govt.


No, the federal government creates money and pays nothing to do so except for the actual costs involved. Specifically the Bureau of Engraving prints paper money and the U.S. Mint makes the coinage. Both are part of the Department of the Treasury.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 6:19:27 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Now we are getting somewhere.

The govt does not create money.  A private corporation does that- of which we are to pay interest to said enterprise.   Hence it can never be repaid- because the interest is never created.    even if it were- the interest on that interest is not created.   all of which is paid to PRIVATE entity- not the govt.


No, the federal government creates money and pays nothing to do so except for the actual costs involved. Specifically the Bureau of Engraving prints paper money and the U.S. Mint makes the coinage. Both are part of the Department of the Treasury.

WRONG.   There would be no need for interest if the money was created by the actual government.

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RE: 10 Things That Would Be Different If The Federal Re... - 1/12/2011 6:22:59 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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If not then why?

---------------------------------------

Ok-  then why should the govt if you dont?

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