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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 8:32:39 AM   
ModTwentyOne


Posts: 2504
Status: offline 		A friendly reminder... please trim your quotes. It is not necessary to quote 6 inches of previous material for a one-sentence response. In other milieu, a minimum of 6 inches is a requirement; here, not so much. Thank you.

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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 10:28:04 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I don't want my tax dollars paying for someone elses car. If you want it buy it with your own money without the tax credit needed to prop up a peice of junk.


And I don't want my tax dollars going to add more lanes to the highway going to your suburb. Live with it...

(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 11:11:22 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There is a reason that a $7000.00 tax credit is being given out to entice buyers to buy the $41,000.00 GM Volt. No one would buy it without a government subsidy. If that was a car that people wanted to buy, there would be no subsidy needed..


So I imagine you were pretty upset when this happened:


Fed Tax Break Encourages SUV Purchases


Thanks to a generous tax credit, Karl Wizinsky is driving a very large vehicle these days — a 2002 Ford Excursion.

"It doesn't hurt to have a larger vehicle, but I wouldn't say it's a requirement of my business," he said on a cell phone while driving the Excursion. "But I ended up saving $32,000."

This year, the perks of buying a large SUV — if you're a small business owner — got even bigger.

Congress recently passed a tax bill, as proposed in President Bush's economic stimulus plan, that offers a $100,000 tax credit for business owners who purchase any vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or more when fully loaded.

(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 12:05:18 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I don't want my tax dollars paying for someone elses car. If you want it buy it with your own money without the tax credit needed to prop up a peice of junk.


And I don't want my tax dollars going to add more lanes to the highway going to your suburb. Live with it...


Carefull DYB, the "Grays" like wide highways especially those leading into *suburbs!*
You might not be as lucky as this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMarOunalow

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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 12:18:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		WTF?  All roads lead to Rome?   This is some fucked up shit.

Selah.

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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 2:04:50 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Hey boys and girls, willbeurdaddy is subtly advocating NUCLEAR POWER!



I have long advocated ALL alternative sources of energy and domestic drilling on these boards.

You can take the rest of your rant and shove up your climate change religion's ass.

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to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 3:19:43 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
I have long advocated ALL alternative sources of energy

Sure that's why you were questioning wind power because it might change weather patterns.

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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 3:22:13 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
I have long advocated ALL alternative sources of energy

Sure that's why you were questioning wind power because it might change weather patterns.



Take things out of context much? No need to answer, we all know its one of your favorite debating techniques, along with outright lies about what people said.

You might want to note that my questions about solar and wind were about WIDESPREAD use, and that an approach that uses all alternatives available would obviate the need for WIDESPREAD use of any of them.

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Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 3:31:56 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Widespread? You've have to build enough to start blocking the wind and the sun.

A few square miles of solar would generate all of the electricity in the U.S. That's how powerful sunlight is.

Similarly with wind. If you want to throw up blockages, problems with birds and noise are usually cited, along with unsightliness.

But I live in an area with hundreds of windmills, and none of these things are problems here.

Solar can also be done cheaply--by using mirrors to heat water to turn turbines.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 4:40:44 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Widespread? You've have to build enough to start blocking the wind and the sun.

A few square miles of solar would generate all of the electricity in the U.S. That's how powerful sunlight is.



Why do you say you would have to "block the wind and the sun". Climate is largely a chaotic process, and therefore subject to sensitivity to initial conditions. That was in part the genesis for AGW in the first place. Has there been modeling that looks at the threshholds or has it just been assumed to not be an issue?

_____________________________

Hear the lark
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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 4:49:50 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Widespread? You've have to build enough to start blocking the wind and the sun.

A few square miles of solar would generate all of the electricity in the U.S. That's how powerful sunlight is.



Why do you say you would have to "block the wind and the sun". Climate is largely a chaotic process, and therefore subject to sensitivity to initial conditions. That was in part the genesis for AGW in the first place. Has there been modeling that looks at the threshholds or has it just been assumed to not be an issue?

Once again do you really want to compare the disruption of air currents caused by urban areas to even large scale widespread wind farms?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 5:01:50 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Widespread? You've have to build enough to start blocking the wind and the sun.

A few square miles of solar would generate all of the electricity in the U.S. That's how powerful sunlight is.



Why do you say you would have to "block the wind and the sun". Climate is largely a chaotic process, and therefore subject to sensitivity to initial conditions. That was in part the genesis for AGW in the first place. Has there been modeling that looks at the threshholds or has it just been assumed to not be an issue?

Once again do you really want to compare the disruption of air currents caused by urban areas to even large scale widespread wind farms?


I posited a question...has it been studied or hasnt it.

Whether urban areas have a greater or lesser effect is besides the point. Study the urban areas' impact then. And do it honestly, not like the CO2 hogwash. Maybe we should be limiting the height and density of developments, not crippling our economy with taxes designed to control the economy in the liberals' vision and to make INVESTMENTS far more profitable than donated speaker fees ever could be.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 5:05:17 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=wind+farm+weather+disruption&hl=en&as_sdt=1%2C14&as_sdtp=on

The only concern seems to be with birds flying into the rotors.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 5:30:04 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Alright, let me get this straight, burning fossil fuels does not put massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere? Or is it that burning so much fossil fuels does not put anymore CO2 in the atmosphere than every living thing breathing puts into it?

The evidence, as accepted by the VAST fucking majority of climatologists points to accelerated climate change that has NO precedent in history.

While the climate has fluctuated over the centuries, it seems that there is something different that can be directly linked to the increased carbon emissions.

Of course the conservatives will deny the evidence of receding glaciers, polar ice pack, the antarctic ice sheets, not to mention the shrinking Greenland ice sheets. As rule, pahunk and realone would claim, it is all done with camera tricks.

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You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 7:27:27 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		wilbeur, meet pahb.

pahb, meet wilbeur.

You two are going to really hit it off.

Oh, wilbeur, check out PrisonPlanet--you'll LOVE it!

Get pahb to introduce you to Alex.

You'd really like Real too. Have fun you guys!

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/18/2011 7:29:04 PM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 7:45:59 PM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline 		Wilbur. seriously, are you going to posit that the biggest wind farm on the planet could approach the wind deflection of one decent sized hill in the middle of the dekkan sinks of India?

You are grasping at STRAWS. You also didnt say anything about my ability to refute your "what if" on solar.

Deal with it. Your scientific background is abysmal.

Solar, wind and fusion are our sustainable future. Unfortunately, there are those who have tens of billions of dollars of interest in the "awllll bidness" who are spending millions to kill research in these areas.

< Message edited by Hillwilliam -- 1/18/2011 8:25:39 PM >

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 8:33:19 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		We need to stay away from nuclear. The waste remains toxic for far too long. There is no way to contain something for that long without there being any leaks. Also, life expectancy is much lower for those who live near nuclear power plants. Wind and solar are great ways to generate power and they're perfectly safe. Nuclear power should be globally outlawed.

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Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to Hillwilliam)
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 9:13:34 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now you're being ridiculous. A pine tree has more impact--and yes, that's been studied (a 50 ft. pine will effect wind currents 200 ft. above the ground--but it doesn't change the global climate, and there are a LOT of pine trees! Nor are we going to alter the effect of solar energy. You should like PP boy.)



Direct me to the peer reviewed studies that widespread use of wind/solar will not impact the climate. Until then your words carry no more weight than DomKen's, and we know how lightweight they are.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 9:26:57 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Perhaps you skipped school the day they taught burden of proof is on the positive claim.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: Fall of Rome linked to climate change - 1/18/2011 9:34:06 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Perhaps you skipped school the day they taught burden of proof is on the positive claim.


Perhaps you skipped school the day they taught the difference between a claim and a question.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 60
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