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RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 10:06:01 AM

sirsholly

Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LDVixen

I have never enjoyed the belt being used on me, it's an implement that scares the hell out of me, which probably makes it hurt worse.

Yep, it would stem from having it used on me through childhood into my teenage years, abusively at times. (Think a mass of bloody welt marks from the top of my ass to the back of my knees with lots of wrap marks and you'll get the idea. There was nothing erotic about it and the belt has the power to render me a babbling semi-catatonic zombie. Lovely ehh, but the point is, I survived it with only being afraid of having a belt used on me. Could be far worse, ya know?)

What tips do you have for helping a person learn to accept if not entirely enjoy something they are not thrilled about?

The belt was a hard limit for you, but you broke that limit because it is something that he enjoys. Sadly, it is causing you emotional stress, anxiety, and in all probability, PTSD. He is aware of your reaction, at least in part, which is why he uses a vibrator as a distraction, and holds you after the fact.

You know what? Enough is enough. His enjoyment is not worth what is happening to you. The fact is, he knows your past history of abuse, and knows that using that implement continues to be traumatic for you. Yet he continues with that behavior, and that tells me he is a self-centered jerk.

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(in reply to LDVixen)

Post #: 21

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 11:29:09 AM

CherryNeko

Posts: 330
Joined: 12/29/2010
From: Mexico City
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDVixen

I have never enjoyed the belt being used on me, it's an implement that scares the hell out of me, which probably makes it hurt worse.

Yep, it would stem from having it used on me through childhood into my teenage years, abusively at times. (Think a mass of bloody welt marks from the top of my ass to the back of my knees with lots of wrap marks and you'll get the idea. There was nothing erotic about it and the belt has the power to render me a babbling semi-catatonic zombie. Lovely ehh, but the point is, I survived it with only being afraid of having a belt used on me. Could be far worse, ya know?)

What tips do you have for helping a person learn to accept if not entirely enjoy something they are not thrilled about?

The belt was a hard limit for you, but you broke that limit because it is something that he enjoys. Sadly, it is causing you emotional stress, anxiety, and in all probability, PTSD. He is aware of your reaction, at least in part, which is why he uses a vibrator as a distraction, and holds you after the fact.

You know what? Enough is enough. His enjoyment is not worth what is happening to you. The fact is, he knows your past history of abuse, and knows that using that implement continues to be traumatic for you. Yet he continues with that behavior, and that tells me he is a self-centered jerk.

OP, if you were abused, neither of you should be messing with belts.
Sirsholly is right.

_____________________________

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Before this night ends?
I'm dying surrounded by white flowers
Which scatter in the sky...

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Post #: 22

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 11:37:25 AM

windchymes

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I agree with Holly.

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Post #: 23

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 12:23:04 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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This I like (from Nueva Vida)
My ex had me befriend it. He let me touch it, and caressed my face and body with it. I could see it was just a piece of leather, no different than any other piece of leather. He would hit me very lightly with it, and because of my fear, the pain was a LOT greater than it would have been, otherwise. But I did learn that it wasn't the belt that was "dangerous" to me, it was the hand that held it. In his hand, it would not harm me.

I was well on the road to overcoming that fear until he used it as punishment. Not his smartest move as all my fears came back to me, and the belt no longer felt safe, even in his hand.

But that's the past. Daddy knows of my fear of the belt, and has used it a few times. When I see him pull it out, my heart jumps, but the emotional safety I feel with him is constantly reinforced and fostered in me (didn't have that in the past relationship), and he's pretty gentle with the belt, caressing my bottom between hits. He starts out very gently, caresses me, then very slowly increases the strength of the hit until I'm at a point I don't even remember what he's hitting me with, I just want more. But he does this each time and never just starts whacking me from the start. He is very careful with it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've spoken before about the fact that I rarely use physical punishment. The above is one of the reasons that I use it rarely. And when I DO use it, it is with an implement that is a hard limit...for play. (And yes,. before anyone asks, that implement and its future use have been discussed and agreed to beforehand). I do not want fear of the bad kind creeping into my play or hers.

I am especially fond of the warm-up. I've had a few submissives who occasionally wanted to get right to the hard stuff or who only needed a bit of warm-up but I have yet to meet one play partner who did not appreciate the warm-up. I used the belt on my last submissive...in front and in back... and she enjoyed it each time. BUT...there was warm-up first.

Someone mentioned aversion therapy. Not to denigrate others' opinion of it but I HAVE seen it work. Depends on the mindset and the point at which you are at in the relationship. I would not try it with a new submissive or one I had been with only a few times or with one who was not sure what she wanted in that regards. I would introduce the idea and then let her mull it.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 1/17/2011 12:36:48 PM >

(in reply to CherryNeko)

Post #: 24

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 12:28:54 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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Now, you all know the real reason I moved from Colorado!

That Creative guy lived too close for my booty's comfort levels. I knew even as a dominant, I was going to deserve it sooner or later! hehe

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Post #: 25

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 12:34:40 PM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subsfaith

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDVixen

I have never enjoyed the belt being used on me, it's an implement that scares the hell out of me...

What tips do you have for helping a person learn to accept if not entirely enjoy something they are not thrilled about?

Stop telling yourself that you have never enjoyed the belt being used, that it scares you, etc. While you keep telling yourself that it will be so.

Try reminding yourself of only the positive things... and if a negative creeps into your mind chase it away with positive though.

ever heard about that having fear is a good thing to have?

I couldn't agree less to ignoring aspects which are bothering someone for reasons....and quite frankly when she was abused with a belt in younger life I don't consider it as appropriate to tell her "stop telling yourself that you have never enjoyed the belt being used" when it as a matter of fact was the case as she says.

That just reminds me on folks who tell people who survived abuse "to just forget about it" when quite frankly its not about shrugging it off or living in denial about it...but instead (at least in my view and experience) to learn to live with it and accept it as part of your life.

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 1/17/2011 12:35:35 PM >

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to subsfaith)

Post #: 26

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 12:38:30 PM

Lockit

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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I agree with Holly, as well.

I had a man that thought because I had been raped by multiple men, that I needed to be kidnapped and raped again, by multiple men, by surprise, so that the outcome could be different with him ending things by nurturing me and proving I was safe.

I had one answer for that and even I, the cursing woman I am won't put all that here. It amounted to... not in this life time and not if you all want to live.

There are just certain places you don't take a former victim.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Phoenixpower)

Post #: 27

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 12:38:44 PM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Someone mentioned aversion therapy. Not to denigrate others' opinion of it but I HAVE seen it work. Depends on the mindset and the point at which you are at in the relationship. I would not try it with a new submissive or one I had been with only a few times or with one who was not sure what she wanted in that regards.

I agree to that and know from own experience that aversion therapy can work. But yes, the mindset has to be right and you can't enforce it when someone isn't ready for that step.

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 28

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 12:39:56 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Now, you all know the real reason I moved from Colorado! That Creative guy lived too close for my booty's comfort levels. I knew even as a dominant, I was going to deserve it sooner or later! hehehe

you KNOW it, lovely Lockit...you know it.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 29

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 12:42:59 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

I agree, some aversion therapy can work in some things and with some people. To give someone kinky pleasure, wouldn't be coming from the right place and once you already start that path without knowing what you are doing... good luck with that. It hasn't worked so far with the OP... Time to step back.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Phoenixpower)

Post #: 30

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 12:46:10 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower

I couldn't agree less to ignoring aspects which are bothering someone for reasons....and quite frankly when she was abused with a belt in younger life I don't consider it as appropriate to tell her "stop telling yourself that you have never enjoyed the belt being used" when it as a matter of fact was the case as she says.

That just reminds me on folks who tell people who survived abuse "to just forget about it" when quite frankly its not about shrugging it off or living in denial about it...but instead (at least in my view and experience) to learn to live with it and accept it as part of your life.

I look at it from a completely different perspective, and I was severely abused with the belt growing up.

If I continue to tell myself I am scared of it, I will always be scared of it. If I tell myself a different message about it (ie; In the wrong hands, this is a dangerous tool but in the right hands, I can befriend it), then I don't have to keep myself limited by my own fears from the past.

I'm a big proponent in the belief that our thoughts dictate where we go. This is not at all downplaying some of the horrible past events of my life; it's simply saying that the present does not need to imitate the past, and I can play an active part in recovering from some of the traumas that have occurred.

It's not necessarily a simple process. But it's not at all the same as "forgetting about it." I understand where you're coming from, I just didn't interpret subsfaith as such.

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Post #: 31

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 1:52:24 PM

LDVixen

Posts: 131
Joined: 11/28/2010
From: Southern CA
Status: offline

I agree that there are routes that should not be traveled again. I would not appreciate being back in a situation be it scene or not where a person was in control of me, and preparing to beat me with a belt. This is not what he is suggesting doing, nor has he done it. I would not agree to it.

My question is not "should we" but "can this become something I enjoy". He is very cognizant of my fears, and he is not attacking me with the belt.

1) I trust him enough to allow him to even get close to me with a folded belt.
2) I trust him enough to allow him to use the belt on my ass because I have allowed him to do it a bit
3) I am much more comfortable with him taking his belt off in normal context of getting undressed.
4) He has never told me that he is going to use his belt on me. He has told me each time that he would like to spank me with it, and asks my permission.
I HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY NO Thank you and I HAVE, other than saying "Okay", he has never expressed disappointment over my saying no.
5) He understands that the sound of the belt popping together will set off a visceral reaction and is careful not to do this.
6) When he has used it on me, he has been gentle. He is checking in with me constantly, not standing there mindlessly beating me.

Allowing anyone else to get near me with the intention of using a belt on me, wouldn't happen. I trust this man with my life. I trust this man with my soul. He is not going to go off half cocked and hurt me simply because it's what he wanks to. I enjoy pain, I crave pain. What happened to me in regards to the abuse happened so very long ago, over 20 years. He enjoys using the belt, he can live without using it, but he enjoys using it. He gives me so much mentally as well as physically, I would like to be able to train my mind to get used to the belt.

In the big picture, it's one thing I am unable to give to him, and it's certainly something he can live without. In the smaller picture, not being able to take the belt for him is a sense of shame for me. Personal shame, he has made me feel shamed for being afraid of it.

Does that make what I am trying to explain more clear?

< Message edited by LDVixen -- 1/17/2011 1:54:00 PM >

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 32

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 2:42:29 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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I'm a big proponent in the belief that our thoughts dictate where we go. This is not at all downplaying some of the horrible past events of my life; it's simply saying that the present does not need to imitate the past, and I can play an active part in recovering from some of the traumas that have occurred.

The above from Nueva Vida...

I know I seem to be a very big fan of yours today, N.V...you know I am almost all the time

...but you've made some really good comments today.

(in reply to LDVixen)

Post #: 33

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 2:44:56 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
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Hi LDVixen,

Why does it have to be a belt for him, the one thing you are phobic about (with good reason it seems)? There are so many other bdsm implements: Riding crops, cat o' nine tails, wooden paddles, leather paddles, tawses, singletails, canes, etc. Some of these things hurt more than a belt. I don't understand why he wants to use this one thing? Is he trying to push through your phobia?

Just curious.

...

OH, just read your last message. It's clear. My answer to your question is yes, people can get over almost anything. I'm thinking that this will take some time though. It sounds to me like he is doing it right. This is how you desensitize someone to a phobia: slowly, easily, regularly with extremely gradual increments. I'm not sure why why you want to do this, but if it's important to you, then go for it. It certainly can be done.

< Message edited by CaringandReal -- 1/17/2011 2:51:18 PM >

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Post #: 34

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 2:47:27 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

My black leather belt is a masculine thing, it's convenient wherever I am and if done with an easy build-up it can make a submissive fly. To say it succinctly, if I had someone who was afraid, I would start very slowly. If her phobia was so bad she panicked, I wouldn't do it. A severe phobia is a psychological matter that is best worked treated in other ways.

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(in reply to LDVixen)

Post #: 35

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 2:50:31 PM

LDVixen

Posts: 131
Joined: 11/28/2010
From: Southern CA
Status: offline

We all have our fantasies I suppose. He enjoys using the belt. We have other very nice toys we use, some that are favorites of his, some that I prefer. The belt was a favored implement of his long before he met me.

My favorite over the knee toy is either the sweat scraper or the simple plastic ruler. Both pack a very nasty stinging thud, leave nice red marks, and have me howling with just a few well placed smacks.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 36

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 2:59:45 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I know I seem to be a very big fan of yours today, N.V...you know I am almost all the time...but you've made some really good comments today.

LOL CD, I don't mind you being a fan. But thank you for the compliment. :)

LDVixen, I'm glad you cleared up some of the questions. However, you said he has made you feel shame for being afraid of it. Did you mean he has NOT made you feel shame? I hope the former is true and you mis-typed.

Be patient with yourself. Overcoming such fears takes time. He only uses the belt infrequently and I still have to remind myself (at first) that I'm in safe hands. One thing I tell myself is, he is in control. In the past, the hand that held the belt was not in control. Big difference.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

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Post #: 37

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 3:07:03 PM

LDVixen

Posts: 131
Joined: 11/28/2010
From: Southern CA
Status: offline

quote:

LDVixen, I'm glad you cleared up some of the questions. However, you said he has made you feel shame for being afraid of it. Did you mean he has NOT made you feel shame? I hope the former is true and you mis-typed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

LDVixen, I'm glad you cleared up some of the questions. However, you said he has made you feel shame for being afraid of it. Did you mean he has NOT made you feel shame? I hope the former is true and you mis-typed.

Be patient with yourself. Overcoming such fears takes time. He only uses the belt infrequently and I still have to remind myself (at first) that I'm in safe hands. One thing I tell myself is, he is in control. In the past, the hand that held the belt was not in control. Big difference.

Yes, I did mis-type, it should say he has Not made me feel shame over this. (See, one little teensy missing word and Prince Charming can become the Beast!)

The person who was beating me with the belt was absolutely not in control. In my family, it was a matriarch based one, with the women being in charge of doling out the punishment while the men were the "Why did you hurt my poor princess?" type.

Also oddly enough, the person who had no problem turning my ass and thighs into blood blister like marks thought that slapping someone in the face was brutal. Being slapped in the face makes me mad, not scared, not submissive, it makes me flat out ready to tear the entrails out of the fool who dared.

< Message edited by LDVixen -- 1/17/2011 3:12:12 PM >

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 38

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 3:09:16 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LDVixen

Yes, I did mis-type, it should say he has Not made me feel shame over this. (See, one little teensy missing word and Prince Charming can become the Beast!)

LOL, yes, it certainly changes the entire message, doesn't it? With everything else you had written, it seemed there may have been a very important little word missing.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to LDVixen)

Post #: 39

RE: Can I learn to "enjoy" the belt? - 1/17/2011 3:47:05 PM

Phoenixpower

Posts: 8098
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida
But it's not at all the same as "forgetting about it." I understand where you're coming from, I just didn't interpret subsfaith as such.

ok, point taken

Its just that I know quite a few folks (outside of this lifestyle) who have such view points a la just to forget about it where it appears they have truly no clue what they are talking about (eg sometimes colleagues from a previous work place where we worked at times with abused kids)...so it depends how it is meant.

_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 40

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