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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 5:47:54 PM   
FukinTroll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub


But then you'd never call me...



Tried to when I was in NC... you jus ignored me.


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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 5:50:32 PM   
AquaticSub


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*tries to remember if Troll has her number or if he is pulling her leg - knows she got no messages saying "Damn it Aqua, it's Troll, answer your damn phone!"*


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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 5:51:55 PM   
FukinTroll


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I was in NC a cpl months ago. Tried tae e-mail ya, but it was that sad ol Elvis song... return to sender or sum crap. 

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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 5:54:03 PM   
AquaticSub


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Ahhh shit. I may know why. I think you may have one of the e-mail addies that has fallen by the wayside with the shit I've been dealing with. Long story but multiple jobs, may be moving to another state, all that crap. Send me a message on the other side and tell me which one you sent it to if you don't mind. >.<


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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 5:57:17 PM   
FukinTroll


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Yew got mail.... if:
Your perv filter is off.
Your freak filter is off.
Your Troll filter is off.
Your old dude filter is off.
Crap... better turn it all off Aqua.


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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 6:06:45 PM   
Focus50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

I'm actually fine with the notion of "under consideration" as long as it's mutually exclusive.


Well, hmm. We have a potential individual "under consideration", and yes, we ask that they not look at other potential situations while they're under consideration with our household. Our reasoning is that it is difficult for an individual to be able to immerse themselves in OUR situation if they're bouncing between two or three other situations -- however, the House certainly may be looking at more than one individual at any given time... our reasoning on this... we have several Keepers and trainers available at any given time, and not all of our servants are active in all of our sub-houses. We're honest about that, and it makes sense for us -- but there certainly isn't any "mutual exclusivity" clause in there. However, it is still functional, and certainly not "a joke" -- at least not for any of those of us who are participating.


I'm loathe to fill each and all of my posts with tedious disclaimers about how my posts represent only my personal opinion blah blah (that's what dvd's are for). "Mutually exclusive" means my relationships are monogamous. That's the perspective I post from and that I'd think the majority of relationships are still monogamous, so it shouldn't be a reach for you to glean the gist of my meaning....

Overall, your poly perspective seems reasonable to me if the one under consideration is appraised and seems reasonably able to make their own informed decisions. The poor rep "consideration" has comes from deceit; of some dom/me taking advantage of a newbie's lack of knowledge or experience.

Focus.


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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 6:41:11 PM   
coookie


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Lol I would have remembered had you "dibbed" me. One never forgets the FuckinTroll

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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 6:44:34 PM   
FukinTroll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: coookie

Lol I would have remembered had you "dibbed" me. One never forgets the FuckinTroll


Does a slurp count as a dib?

SLURP!


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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 8:26:26 PM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
Not sure how my preferred font colour compares to locking the inexperienced or uninformed into a relationship that doesn't subject me to the same exclusivity.


The comparison is an apt one.  I see a grownup writing in what looks to me like crayon colors, and my immediate first impression is pretty negative.  I tend to start thinking things about their level of maturity and professionalism that may not actually be true.  I suspect you're doing the same thing when you see people use a "collar of consideration".  In some cases you may be right, and in other cases you may be wrong and these individuals may be quite sober and serious and know what they are doing.


quote:

I think you (and others) are clouding what should be a simple concept by smothering it in protocol and then using it to take offense. I'm actually fine with the notion of "under consideration" as long as it's mutually exclusive. I roll my eyes because mostly it's not - that fact trumps theory.


I'm not taking offense so much as pointing out that people do use this term as an honest communication of their status.   I have no freaking clue what the statistics are on what people do online, nor do I care as I'm not very interested in online kink.  I only know what my friends in the community are doing, and at times they do use a "collar of consideration" or "under consideration" to designate a provisional relationship status.  It has generally been used to mean that they're in the process of seriously negotiating a possible D/s or M/s relationship, but they still have some talking to do before deciding whether or not they will take that step.  Which makes perfect sense to me. 

I am not sure why it would fail to make sense to anyone else, though I suppose if people are rampantly doing a lot of stupid shit and playing drama games online, you could expect them to continue doing this no matter what they decided to call their relationship.  The problem here is not with the idea of "consideration".  It's with people doing stupid shit on the Internet. 


quote:

A vanilla couple dates 2 or 3 times and makes plans for a 4th. Nothing formal; no rings etc - just two people dating.... They are reasonably under (relationship) consideration of *each* other. To me, including D/s (or M/s), this is how adults go about such things. Two people with a common purpose....


But we're not vanilla.  So if there's a prospective relationship where you think you might be giving or accepting a collar in the future if everything goes well, and you want to communicate that to others, I don't see any reason not to use "under consideration".  I don't think it's something that I would personally jump right into on the second or third or fourth date, but if I'd been seeing someone for awhile and built a solid enough relationship that I wanted to start talking about the possibility of a collar, I might refer to them as "under consideration". 


quote:

What I don't like is the D/s equation of it. That there are dom/mes who'll actually use their self proclaimed dom/me status to justify playing the field while locking in the sub to exclusivity. And that sub is almost always an inexperienced novice suffering from badly misplaced trust. A very-usual red flag....


There's been a lot of discussion as to whether negotiated inequality works in a poly situation, specifically whether a dominant can be free to add more partners while a submissive does not have the same right.  In non-kinky poly, it's referred to as mono/poly, not the board game.  The most common consensus from folks who are actually doing it is that it can work, but like any other poly situation, it can also implode in bad drama if it is done poorly and anyone's core needs are not being met in the relationship. 

Dominance is not a substitute for doing good poly in the sense of establishing solid foundations of honesty, trust and communication.  There are no shortcuts for those things, any more than "On your knees, bitch," is a shortcut for establishing a D/s relationship.  But D/s can mean negotiated inequality in a relationship, including in a poly relationship.

My owned submissives do not have the right to seek other partners without my say-so.  That's what "owned" means; they are my property.   I do have the right to seek other partners.  In reality, I am unwilling to do anything that would make either of my committed partners unhappy, nor spend so much of my time and energy elsewhere that I could not meet their needs.  Because I am responsible for their health as well as my own, I limit my play with others to primarily nonsexual and near zero risk activities (flogging, spanking, etc).  In short, I actually do this thing that you are complaining about (eg, being a poly dominant who keeps their submissives as exclusive property), but I'm doing it responsibly and in a way that does not leave a destructive trail of unhappy people.  I think so, and my boys think so, and as long as we're all happy with the way it works, other people don't get a vote.


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RE: consideration? - 1/17/2011 9:46:22 PM   
StrictlyKind


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From a journal entry I wrote on the subject several year ago...

quote:


CONSIDERATION When I see this I translate it as... "I'm exclusive, he's not. I'll do absolutely anything he tells me to do, even though he's not willing to make any sort of commitment to me." Once again D/s is based on relationships. The mere fact that I've been communicating with someone means that I'm considering the possibility of a relationship. I may not know what kind of relationship, but it means I AM considering something. I've seen too many girls put up "Under Consideration" one day and take it down the next after giving it up to some guy who said he was "considering" them. Once again, I'd love to hear from you if I need to be set straight.

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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 3:54:26 AM   
Focus50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

A vanilla couple dates 2 or 3 times and makes plans for a 4th. Nothing formal; no rings etc - just two people dating.... They are reasonably under (relationship) consideration of *each* other. To me, including D/s (or M/s), this is how adults go about such things. Two people with a common purpose....


But we're not vanilla.  So if there's a prospective relationship where you think you might be giving or accepting a collar in the future if everything goes well, and you want to communicate that to others, I don't see any reason not to use "under consideration".  I don't think it's something that I would personally jump right into on the second or third or fourth date, but if I'd been seeing someone for awhile and built a solid enough relationship that I wanted to start talking about the possibility of a collar, I might refer to them as "under consideration". 


Not for the first time; I think you try too hard to be difficult and contrary. It's one thing to respect the right of individuals to express their personal opinions but your posts invariably have a familiar theme that anyone not doing things your way is doing it wrong.

Which means you make zero effort to understand what others are saying. ("But we're not vanilla.")

You're unable to let my font colour go.... You naturally assume everyone gets poly.... You use this online media to trash "online" at every opportunity.

Seems a perpetual pissing contest. I admire your stubbornness to compete regardless - but there's no-one else in the contest; truly! Let it go - and just *be*.... 'Cause otherwise, you seem quite intelligent and knowledgeable. Just not terribly smart with it (so far).

Focus.


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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 3:58:50 AM   
Focus50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrictlyKind

From a journal entry I wrote on the subject several year ago...

quote:


CONSIDERATION When I see this I translate it as... "I'm exclusive, he's not. I'll do absolutely anything he tells me to do, even though he's not willing to make any sort of commitment to me." Once again D/s is based on relationships. The mere fact that I've been communicating with someone means that I'm considering the possibility of a relationship. I may not know what kind of relationship, but it means I AM considering something. I've seen too many girls put up "Under Consideration" one day and take it down the next after giving it up to some guy who said he was "considering" them. Once again, I'd love to hear from you if I need to be set straight.



I think this (quoting yourself) is largely poor form - laziness. Hence, I didn't bother reading it on principle.

Others may not share my handicap (principles).

Just sayin'....

Focus.


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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 4:50:17 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
Overall, your poly perspective seems reasonable to me if the one under consideration is appraised and seems reasonably able to make their own informed decisions. The poor rep "consideration" has comes from deceit; of some dom/me taking advantage of a newbie's lack of knowledge or experience.

Focus.


Oddly enough, weren't we just on a thread earlier this week where your position was that guilty until proven innocent didn't work for you?  Though you didn't phrase it quite that way in the other thread, it's pretty much the way you are coming across here.  You're basing your opinion on reputation, rather than on people who actually do use the term effectively.  There's a hint of stereotyping in that.
quote:

You naturally assume everyone gets poly....

Are you saying that you don't get the concept?


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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 10:59:32 AM   
LadyNTrainer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

A vanilla couple dates 2 or 3 times and makes plans for a 4th. Nothing formal; no rings etc - just two people dating.... They are reasonably under (relationship) consideration of *each* other. To me, including D/s (or M/s), this is how adults go about such things. Two people with a common purpose....


But we're not vanilla.  So if there's a prospective relationship where you think you might be giving or accepting a collar in the future if everything goes well, and you want to communicate that to others, I don't see any reason not to use "under consideration".  I don't think it's something that I would personally jump right into on the second or third or fourth date, but if I'd been seeing someone for awhile and built a solid enough relationship that I wanted to start talking about the possibility of a collar, I might refer to them as "under consideration". 


Not for the first time; I think you try too hard to be difficult and contrary. It's one thing to respect the right of individuals to express their personal opinions but your posts invariably have a familiar theme that anyone not doing things your way is doing it wrong.


Dude.  Can you even hear yourself talk?  You just got done telling people that "this is how adults go about such things". 

If you trash the way other people do things, it's not unreasonable or unexpected that those others are going to speak up and say, "This stuff actually works for me; are you telling me I'm not an adult?"

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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 11:04:04 AM   
FukinTroll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

are you telling me I'm not an adult?"


Saw those boots at baby gap... so I am skeptical.


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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 5:21:01 PM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

I have often seen on profiles "under consideration by <insert name here>" Im just curious but what are your thoughts on consideration online?


Greetings TNDommeK,

In my opinion it is typically a mixed bag and that's a very tactful spin on what is usually a debacle for most and the beginning of something meaningful for a select few. It has been my observation that most people who find themselves entertaining such notions are usually in for a very big letdown.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 5:22:25 PM   
CerVeza


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I actually attended Wrestlemania when it was in Glendale, Arizona. I have great photos.

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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 5:51:45 PM   
CaringandReal


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Here we go again.

Every time this topic comes up, folks are so quick to jump to conclusions about the term.  Personally, I find that a bit unfair to those of us who use it because it's the best way to describe our interactions and the way we run a household.


---snipped for brevity---


Great post, LadyPact. I'm in full agreement with this. Maybe "under consideration" isn't the best phrase in the world, but it sure beats "I'm engaged"--at least in my book. In these sorts of relationships, it seems natural that the dominant does the majority of the considering while the submissive is objectified as the one being considered and the one who must earn their place. That doesn't mean that the submissive puts their critical faculties on hold--in fact, this practice is a very good way of giving the submissive a chance to get to know you and your style of dominance as well, and decide for themselves if they fit it. What I like best about "under consideration" is that it does make it very clear exactly who wants to be considered by whom, who is doing the bulk of the examining, and who needs to restrict their contacts, behave themselves, and otherwise watch their steps while being considered.

It would be totally ridiculous, IMO, for a dominant to put the following on their profile: "Under consideration by slave cutie-pie so I can't speak with any of you other submissives at this time, as I don't want to make a bad impression!" Although it would be rather funny, in a dark-humorish sort of way.

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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 6:18:49 PM   
MaamJay


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As I have said before, but like LadyPact and Calla, it bears repeating, the term "under consideration" isn't the problem, it's what people do with it. I am another (of the very few in Focus's opinion it seems) and what's more I live in the same disadvantaged country that he does ... who has used the term and with honourable intent! However, I am also poly (so he won't get this probably) and for Me, consideration is an essential stage that a relationship goes through, as adding someone to an existing poly isn't something you do lightly.

For Me, it is a stage that begins well beyond the first few "dates" (not that I like that term at all, it gives Me the same heebie jeebies as consideration does to others), it commences at the first declaration that "this seems to be working, let's try it as it would be if you were fully part of this poly". In the case of Master and i (when I was married and Domme over hubby), Master actually moved to live with us 24/7 when consideration began ... and it lasted until He collared me 2 years later! Now that's pretty serious consideration, but we both knew in that time, we could call it off with no recriminations as it was all part of the growing together time. We bought mutual commitment rings about 5 months in and we still wear them too, but there's no way we were going to call it "engaged" since I was already married! Still am technically though hubby is long gone, but Master and i are still very happy together nearly 7 years after He moved in. Likewise, I had a female sub under consideration a good while back, she seemed like a great match at first, but when it ramped up to more full time, she came to the realisation that she was not, at heart, a sub. While that hurt us all a bit at the time, we can see that it was good, at least she found that out about herself before we were all into it deeper (eg she hadn't moved house at the time for eg) ... and we are still friends. There is no way I would meet someone a few times and then say "Righto, you're My new sub, let's hope you get on with Master" ... now THAT would be foolishness! And while I am not exclusive, I would be unlikely to be trialling more than 1 sub at a time, it takes far too much energy!

I am no fan of people bandying around "under consideration" or velcro collars in a scurrilous way online, but I do object to people assuming that EVERYONE who uses the term in ANY context is a predator, an idiot, or a naive sub!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: consideration? - 1/18/2011 7:43:33 PM   
osf


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if he is communicating with her in earnest then he is considering the possibilities

I correspond with many, most just for a couple exchanges a few for more, in a sense they all are under consideration in some way

so far none have not measured up to my goose


this is a general post and not in answer to MJ

i have to remember this site doesn't work like others i'm on








< Message edited by osf -- 1/18/2011 7:45:00 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 60
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