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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/5/2006 7:56:43 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		You edited once for each letter? 

heheheh....~ducks~

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Profile   Post #: 181
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/5/2006 7:59:10 PM   
Kidless


Posts: 104
Joined: 5/4/2006
Status: offline 		This is terribly simple. Respect your local laws.
Do  as you see fit,otherwise-and harm none.

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Profile   Post #: 182
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/5/2006 8:08:52 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kidless

This is terribly simple. Respect your local laws.
Do  as you see fit,otherwise-and harm none.


Let's make sure we understand each other.... I WASN"T INVOLVED... I only witnessed this. And my local laws don't state no one can be lead about on a leash... I do as I seem fit.. for me.. and mine... I harm no one .. I do not reach out and snatch them up and say look at me.. like it or not...

I've noticed in other threads... you love to try to goat people .... piss them off... so let me just stop you now on this one...  I'm not asking no one to agree with me.... nor disagree with me... I only stated what I had witnessed... and I asked if others had gone through this... or witnessed this... 3 or 4 have spoke of witnessing... or being involved in something like this... most have decided to argue about it... which is always nice to see views on this as well.... so it served a couple of purposes...

Owned..... Smart ass.... Here.. have a grannysmith and hush... I need to get nails trimmed so I can chill on typos... LOL

Enjoy your evening... and have  nice weekend...


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Profile   Post #: 183
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/5/2006 8:12:05 PM   
Kidless


Posts: 104
Joined: 5/4/2006
Status: offline 		Sighs I'm just expressing my thoughts.

Let me state something here, I can't force anyone to react in certain ways-they have to want to. If what I say hots a raw spot-maybe it's good idea to see why it's so tender?

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Profile   Post #: 184
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/5/2006 8:20:38 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kidless

Sighs I'm just expressing my thoughts.

Let me state something here, I can't force anyone to react in certain ways-they have to want to. If what I say hots a raw spot-maybe it's good idea to see why it's so tender?


naa... times to short to let it bother me... or you....

Owned.. you slow ass reader... catch up.... LOL


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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/5/2006 8:56:07 PM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

Owned.. you slow ass reader... catch up.... LOL



I'm trying, but this apple is really drippy and making a mess

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Profile   Post #: 186
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/5/2006 10:15:05 PM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline
Two things-

First off if you are doing something in public that is considered different, you should fully expect to be treated differently then people who fit into the "norm."  If you are a gay guy and are walking around the mall holding hands and stealing kisses with your BF expect to be treated differently.  (for the record I don't agree with a man and a woman being all over each other in public either)  Sure you have the right to do it, but keep it private and if you so feel the need to express it in public do so discreetly or expect to be treated differently.  If you feel the need to walk around in Goth wear with ten inch green spikes be prepared to be treated differently.  If you walk around with a collar being led by leash, expect to be treated differently.  All these and more fit into things outside of the norm and especially in areas where children will see it, should not be done.  Sure you have the right to be however you want to be but at the same time others have the right to not witness your "abnormal" behavior.  With great personal freedom comes great responsibility and you need to be responsible and use proper discretion in your actions.  You can still be who you are and not flaunt it.  And it is respectful to your fellow human beings to not do things to make them feel uncomfortable.  Would it really be going out of your way if you are gay to not display it?  If you are a Dom/slave to not flaunt it by leading her around by a leash?  To maybe trim the spikes down a little?  We are all different but there are well understood boundaries on acceptable public behavior and they are there for all to be able to enjoy their time out. Your right to expression doesn't give you the right to make others uncomfortable with your actions. 
Secondly, a mall is private property.  They have every right to ask anyone to leave if they so desire and security being an agent of the owner or renter has the same rights to do so unless someone who outranks them invites you to stay.  Your right to be who you want to be doesn't override the rights of a property owner to ask someone to leave if others feel uncomfortable.  I'd be willing to put money on someone having complained about their behavior.  Did they first ask them to please remove the collars and leashes and they had gotten a few complaints?  If they did and the Masters/slaves refused then that just serves them all the more right for being given the boot for having the chance for a reasonable compromise and not willing to do so.

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 1:11:45 AM   
Vancouver_cinful


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf1020
Would it really be going out of your way if you are gay to not display it? 


Oh for Heaven's sake, what an archaic statement. How dare anyone expect people to be ashamed of who they love, as long as it's another consenting adult. Straight people have a right to hold hands and kiss in public, as long as it's not deemed obscene, but gays shouldn't desire the same right?

Cin

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 7:03:36 AM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
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From: Anderson, SC
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How did I know someone would pick out of my entire post something about gay people to focus on and simply disregard the meaning of the entire post.

I will summarize for you since you obviously didn't bother taking my entire post into context.  You have the right to be different, you don't have the right to force it down other peoples throats, and if you are in public total and open displays are not a good idea and if you are treated differently or thrown out don't be surprised.

_____________________________

"The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they'll sleep at night."~ Otto von Bismarck

"Fish and visitors smell in three days"~Benjamin Franklin

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 8:44:51 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf1020

You have the right to be different, you don't have the right to force it down other peoples throats, and if you are in public total and open displays are not a good idea and if you are treated differently or thrown out don't be surprised.


I agree and disagree.  People DO have rights to protest, in either direction.  Some might say the Million Man March was forcing a view down people's throats.  Some would say those who hand out religeous leaflets are pushing their views.  Or Gay Pride Parades, or those who gather outside abortion clinics holding pro-life signs (although  in California anyway there are laws as to how many feet protesters must stand away from public or private buildings in their protests).  On both sides of the coin, people have rights to display public statements, within the confines of various laws. 

However, it is true in our society that those who step "outside the box" - whether just slightly or in a lunatic fringe, will be viewed as "different," and treated as such.  Look as close as in this very forum and see all the different and passionate viewpoints on topics such as scat, humiliation, safe words, limits....Any society has acceptable norms.  And when people practice their right to step away from those norms, they will indeed likely be viewed as "problematic, attention seekers, or just plain wrong."  Anyone who makes such a step would be ignorant to think he or she would not see a difference in treatment as a reult.

I could decide that my new thing is wedding dresses, and I'm going to wear a wedding dress wherever I go.  Do you think I would not get looks?  Comments?  Questions? 

Now, as for being kicked out of a mall, I doubt walking around in a white dress and veil would get me kicked out.  If a mall has the right to refuse service to anyone, he whose service is refused as the right to protest it and file a complaint if he thinks it is appropriate.    Someone earlier in this thread said we don't know if there was a history with these people.  Maybe they DID cause trouble before.  Maybe they had shoplifted and were banned from entering the mall again, and this event had nothing to do with the leashes and collars at all.  Interesting consideration, but the assumption we all came to sure made for an intersting thread!

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 8:49:04 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Like so many things already asked and answered more than once in this thread:
"You have the right to be different, you don't have the right to force it down other peoples throats..."

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other person's nose begins."
– Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., U.S. Supreme Court justice (1841-1935)

The part you are having a problem with is understanding when something is being shoved down your throat and when it's not. If I were to shove my cock down your throat I think you might notice that fact - that would probably be wrong, especially if performed non-consensually. If by contrast, I happen to be walking along hand in hand with my boyfriend and you are merely a casual observer I don't see how that's any of your fucking business.

Harming no one else, I expect to be allowed to do exactly as I please - even in public.

I will not by my silence allow that there should be only one view of what is right and what is wrong. The range of what is acceptable must be made wide enough to include everyone's way of life.



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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:06:48 AM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline
Depends on where you are.  Why the hell should everyone else in the mall have to feel uncomfortable to accommodate your need to express being different.  If someone complains the mall owner has every right to boot you off his property.  You are the one that has chosen to be different and with that right comes the responsibility to not shove it in other peoples faces. 

I have the right if I so choose to not bathe myself, should I be allowed to go to the mall after not having showered for a month and wearing cloths that I have worn for the past week?

What you have the right to do in your home and in your bedroom, and what you have the right to do in public for the world to see and quite possibly be offended by are two very different things, especially when your choice on how to live is outside of societies norm.

_____________________________

"The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they'll sleep at night."~ Otto von Bismarck

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:08:25 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Chaingang,

You use examples of physical assualt, which I think we both agree no one has a right to do.  As for behaving as you want in public, that is not the case, either.  What becomes in my line of vision does become my business, to a point.  Wolf used public displays of affection as an example, and cited both straight AND gays, however the two posts relating to that only cited the gay part, which is interesting. 

But behaving however you want in public so long as it isn't harming anyone?  Does that mean I could sit near you in a movie theater and talk incessantly and obnoxiously, and you will smile content that I am exercising my rights to be however I want? 

We have a new culture in this society which does not allow people to offend others.  You may not like that; I certainly do not.  But it exists.  Not long ago, a church nearby had crosses displayed on its own very large and very private lawn, paid for by its congregation.  White crosses for those Americans killed in US Wars since the history of this country (1 cross represented 10,000, I thnk), and black crosses for aborted fetuses.  Their point was the overwhelmingly larger number of abortions to men killed in battle.  Wasn't it their right to do so?  There was no statement posted, stating any opinion in either direction.  Yet passersby were offended, and a suit was filed, and the crosses had to go.

Like it or not, society dictates what is acceptable and what is not.  We can try to move and evolve views, but that takes time and will always be met with resistance.  No change occurs overnight.  So those who venture out first must be prepared to face the consequences of doing so.  Call them fools or call them courageous, but such is life.

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:09:45 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf1020


How did I know someone would pick out of my entire post something about gay people to focus on and simply disregard the meaning of the entire post.

I will summarize for you since you obviously didn't bother taking my entire post into context.  You have the right to be different, you don't have the right to force it down other peoples throats, and if you are in public total and open displays are not a good idea and if you are treated differently or thrown out don't be surprised.


I have to honestly voice this...although I can honestly understand the pros and cons of this situation.....and I'm taking into consideration ALL of Wolf's post.. so he won't feel he's being picked apart here.... and that's the problem here..... everyones taking others comments... picking them apart... and not taking it all into consideration. Ok.. so not exactly everyone... but there's alot of that. Not just on this thread but others as well. Now I know why arguements and flamming accures.

Wolf you as well others... make great points on the Cons of what happened last weekend at the mall with these 3 couples. Alot of others make great points in their views of the Pros. This  really isn't about who's right... who's wrong... it's about how individuals involved would handle this if it was them. It's not about religion... and no... it's not about innocence either... what was done... was a thread about a situation that transpired was taken personal. Most commented on THEIR personal thoughts on how they would respond if they seen this.. or was placed... or refused to do this. This is all fine and dandy... but to get not like someone elses thoughts in this... <shakes head> So much for accepting others for their kinks... it make no difference if you agree with them or not.... everyone pretty much boast about accepting others for who they are.. and their kinks... well tell others... to each their own.... different strokes for different folks.... till they do something YOU find to be as crossing YOUR line of moral values...

I never once asked for anyone to agree or disagree with me on this... hell at first I disagreed.... understood those that were involved.... but because I too had mine at the mall.. understood the Cons of this... after reading through alot of responses... I managed to change my own mind on the whole situation as well. Though I still see... and understand others responses to this... my own thoughts of this... is acceptance... acceptance to the fact that ... for me to be offended... is like jealousy... a waste of precious time.  Just look away... ignore... and carry on with I am doing.... if need be... steer my group away... but I'm not going to be one who will publicly bash someone for doing something.. I know I would do...

Others speak of there being places and times for this... Well hell.. let's go there... Now if I'm suppose to be offended at the mall... because someone is being led about by a collar and leash.....should not I still be offened when someone walks into a dungeon party leading their slave by  collar and leash? Am I going to be offened in public just so I can hide behind a cloak of making sure no one knows my  kink. But not at a dungeon party? And yes this included being two faced.. and a hyprocrite to the innocence that tag along with you... as you look down t them and make all excuses... so you do not dare let them know... you do the same.... but in secret... because you don't want others to know.

Now this arguement is another Con of not doing this... so that you don't have to become two faced when you explain things to the kids... but live it when they're not watching.

I just personally think ..... that being offended... in public.... for doing something you do in private... is being two faced.... we may not like it... and that is different than being offended.  As my two just explained to me... now mind you... they're both Goth... they too agree... time and place for everything... to dislike someone doing this at mall is one thing... but to be offended... is wrong.. specially if you do the same thing yourself just elsewhere... I can see what they're saying in this. Hope you can too.

Lord I took th scenic route again... but I'm sure I got my point across somewhere in there.. lol.. Owned.. I need a apple-polish..... LMAO



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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:23:08 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		LMAO @ apple-polish!!! 

Great post, True, and I can see your desire to look at the big picture in all of this.  I can also see your concern of what you find hypocritical - "all should accept me, but no one like me should be in public."  A very interesting point.  Personally I can't relate to that because I don't think "all should accept me" nor do I profess a need or desire to make myself public.  But you make a point toward others who do.

As for time and place for things, I must say if you are going to a dungeon or party, what you will see is what you expect to see.  First, it is for adults only, so there won't be the issue of explaining anything to youngsters.  Second, in a mall you expect to see, for the most part, "the norm," so anything outside "the norm" is indeed attention grabbing.

As for looking away...this thought process concerns me.  And I know I'm about to get really extreme here, but isn't that what many countries did with Hitler?  They looked away in the beginning, before the war occurred.  "Oh that's Germany's business...Oh that can't be all bad..."   We (we, as a collective society) used to look away when children and wives were abused...when corporate executives wrongfully lined their pockets with the hard earned dollars of working folks.  If we always looked away, then what sets the values of our society?  Our values are determined, like it or not, by the majority of viewpoints.  And let's face it folks, we are not society's majority.  That does not mean we don't have a voice.  But it does mean when we speak it, we should be prepared to face resistance to it, and have well thought out argument to state our case.

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:31:17 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I've spent too much time on Collarme.. LOL.... when I first came on here... I stood my ground on making sure my girls knew not anything about me and my private life. For the most part... expecially my youngest still doesn't know.... I use to find it very offensive to see how many others felt nothing should be hid... even from kids. "Oh I never hide anything from mine"..... "Mine know everything" "Mine see my collar.. kneeling... using terms like Master.. Sir".....etc...etc...etc..... if this is so much the case.. why get offended seeing it in public?

Owned.. you're right.. you went to the extemes there... but a valid point. But I do believe there's one point alot have made... that all have agreed upon.... SHIT HAPPENS.. and sometimes... Politically speaking.... THINGS SUCK... lol

It's all a matter of being dammed... LOL I've said it a few times... Damn if we do.... damn if we don't... so dammit.. we're dammed.


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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:41:38 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Well, everyone parents as they see fit.  It is not up to me to determine what parents expose their kids to and when.  However, like it or not, kids are going to see things.  Unless we lock our kids away at home in a coccoon, they are going to see things we don't want them to.  Seeing the innocence in my nieces & nephews eyes, I suppose I just hope it stays there as long as possible.

lol I do agree with you though - shit happens and things suck.  :)

So, I'm gonna go eat a damned apple.  (We were talking about av's last night - I'm gonna get one of a grannysmith...lol)

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Profile   Post #: 197
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:41:41 AM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolf1020
You have the right to be different, you don't have the right to force it down other peoples throats, and if you are in public total and open displays are not a good idea and if you are treated differently or thrown out don't be surprised.


I never said once that I was surprised that they were thrown out. I said it was not wrong of them to take a stance. Of course they are going to have to face some tough attitudes, and that's why I called it brave.

Women who went on a hungerstrike for women's rights were forcefed, beaten and I'm sure they never once regretted their stance. People (of all colours) were beaten, and even died, fighting for the abolishment of slavery.

You get the point. Yes, people will suffer discrimination, but I don't believe that any of the people who have fought for social change would say they regret what they did.

Those people in their leashes, likely knew they were going to have some trouble, but they believe in standing up for their rights. They didn't throw bricks at politicians, they didn't kidnap anyone and demand their rights at gunpoint. They exercised their right to quiet, peaceful protest.

You don't have to be one of those people who makes a stance for what they believe in, but I think we should all think twice before we automatically condemn those who do.

By the way, I was once attacked, and once narrowly missed being hit in the head with a brick for standing in line outside a gay bar in 1983. (The people who attack didn't take a moment to find out if I was straight, they attacked out of hate.) I'm sorry if it offends people that I keep referring to the struggle that gays have gone through but it made me realize that complacency doesn't bring social change, standing up and be willing to take a hit for your rights, does.

Cin

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quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

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Profile   Post #: 198
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:42:39 AM   
Wolf1020


Posts: 447
Joined: 11/7/2005
From: Anderson, SC
Status: offline
On the public dungeons and such you should treat it like any other public place in what you will see there.

In places like the mall, the grocery store, etc, you have the standard societal norms to go by.  But if you go to a theme specific place that turns the situation on its head and if you don't agree with it you are now the one outside of the places norm.  If naked women offend you don't go to the titty bar.  If Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc offend you don't go to the places of worship.  If homosexuality offends you don't go to the gay bar.  Etc.  What is acceptable can change based on the location both in business as well as geography.  In the titty bar girls naked is acceptable, it isn't in the mall.  Being drunk in a bar is acceptable, it isn't in the grocery store.  In places where you are the exception to the norm expect to be treated differently if you feel the need to express your differences from those there.

_____________________________

"The less people know about how sausages and laws are made, the better they'll sleep at night."~ Otto von Bismarck

"Fish and visitors smell in three days"~Benjamin Franklin

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Profile   Post #: 199
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/6/2006 9:46:07 AM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

I will not by my silence allow that there should be only one view of what is right and what is wrong. The range of what is acceptable must be made wide enough to include everyone's way of life.





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Cin

quote:


My Karma Account is huge, but I just can't seem to make a withdrawal!!

http://cinful.wordpress.com

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Profile   Post #: 200
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