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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 10:17:36 AM   
WeeIttyBitty


Posts: 115
Joined: 4/24/2006
Status: offline 		The reason I dont like public play (play with a group of like minded individuals is fine) but play where a member of the general public may see whats going on is a bad idea. First ethically, you are violating that persons consent... They didnt consent to watch you walk your slave down the street on a leash, violating someone's consent should be a serious ethical problem.. Secondly, the person maybe offended and interact with you in a negative manner. (Its hard to judge how big of threat this is, but its possible.) Third, they misinterpret the scene and call the police. (this happened to a friend of mine - playing a kidnap game in a parking lot - a cab driver saw the game, and phoned the police.)


(in reply to EbonyFtshGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 10:19:33 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Well actually beth...and by the way...you know I love ya too....you can't disagree with me because I never made a statement as to what my personal opinion is on the subject, I merely posed a question. I will say that on a personal note, I am one who believes that marijuana SHOULD be legalized...and that is coming from an ex substance abuse counselor. But my opinion on it really doesn't matter. I know others feel strongly against having their children "educated" by me and my personal beliefs on the subject so therefore I don't do it.

But see, people get so caught up in the particulars that they get blinded to the concept. Take the word marijuana out and replace it with whatever word YOU personally find to be offensive. You can make it anything you want. Methamphetamine, anti-semitism, racism....you name it, the list of possibilities is endless. You can say I would not mind someone exposing my children to that...but as parents, most of us have SOMETHING that we don't want our kids exposed to. The people who are standing up for THAT SOMETHING feel just as adamantly opposed to our intolerance of it as we do to theirs about the things WE believe in.


well said, erin.  every day of their little upbringings this slave had to confront things she did not want her unmentionables to be exposed to, such is life.  they were things that society embraces.  what one chooses to wear or the type of relationships adults choose to engage in have always been explained to them as just another of the many tough, yet absolutey FREE choices adults make.  this slave understands why people get so hung up over the way other folks choose to dress, eat, behave, indulge, etc.  it is rooted in our culture to have a disdain for or fear of the unusual or the different.  this slave also understands why people feel so strongly that walking around the mall at the end of a leash "exposes" some level of sexuality--for them.  it doesn't for this slave, but perhaps it is because she doesn't see it as lewd or lascivious~to her it is not representing a sexual act.  someone who wears a collar and/or leash ONLY behind a closed bedroom or dungeon door and otherwise to the world is presenting as 100% vanilla might not see any connection OTHER than sexual.
 
seeing two men walk down the street holding hands and giving each other an affectionate kiss as they part ways is as OK for this slave and any unmentionable she has, as seeing a Master walking with His slave on the end of a leash--to this slave, they both represent a relationship, not a dirty sexual act, outside of the conventional societal norms and would be explained to the unmentionables as such.
 
quote:

...Also parents can choose where they take their children. I never take mine shopping because I don't like the materialism and time wasting of it. I don't like those values. I might however choose to take them to a nudist beach because I don't have hangups about the naked body...orig: ClassAct2006 


that is the spirit in which this slave raised hers...once they get to 18 it is up to them to make the choices of their lives and this slave wanted to expose them to as much as possible--this slave even chose living in the ghetto for 5 years and sending them to public school instead of living in a secluded "rich" neighborhood and sending them to private school because this slave did not want them to judge people by the amount of $$$ they had access to.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/3/2006 10:20:23 AM >

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 10:28:04 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
someone who wears a collar and/or leash ONLY behind a closed bedroom or dungeon door and otherwise to the world is presenting as 100% vanilla might not see any connection OTHER than sexual.

And even if it is sexual, so?  Sexual connection is no better or worse than any other connection. 

As well, as we've said, simply WEARING kinky iconography is hardly pushing sexuality onto others, nor is it anything one should feel wrong about in a casual public context.

quote:

and this slave wanted to expose them to as much as possible--this slave even chose living in the ghetto for 5 years and sending them to public school instead of living in a secluded "rich" neighborhood and sending them to private school because this slave did not want them to judge people by the amount of $$$ they had access to.

Speaking as someone who lived in and attended pretty much the worst ghetto schools in MD growing up, that doesn't necessarily do it, in fact it can make one MORE sensitive about money and its perceptions.  It certainly does go a long way towards making one appreciate and use what they do have though.

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 10:55:39 AM   
Proprietrix


Posts: 756
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Ohio/West Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito
I was just waiting for this argument to come up.  To basically say that these people are
doing all of "us" a favour and we're kicking them when they're down is just a ridiculous attempt to shame and guilt us into jumping on the Rah!Rah!  bandwagon. I don't recall asking anyone else in the "community" to take these risks on my behalf nor does their risk taking benefit me in any way because I won't be out there on a leash/wearing a corset/cuffs/etc even if it does become socially acceptable because of people who push for those changes. If they want to push for change good for them. I'll support them in the same way that I'd support  anyone who is standing up for something they believe in which is pretty much limited to a "good for them" and then I get on with my life.  Not everyone in the community WANTS or NEEDS these so-called "freedoms" so please don't insinuate that we should all be grateful because others want to flaunt their kink. It's of absolutely no consequence to me either way so I can't really get too worked up about it beyond posting on a message board about it.
I still feel the way I did when I originally posted - if you're going to do something you know isn't socially acceptable then accept the consequences of doing so. If you feel its for the greater good then again, good for you. But please don't act like every kinky person on the face of the planet should offer unmitigated support.


By the same token...
Rosa Parks wasn't speaking for the black people who were content with the status quo.
Susan B. Anthony wasn't speaking for the women who were content with the status quo.
PETA doesn't speak for vegans that are content with the status quo.
Ceasar Chavez didn't speak for migrant farm workers who were content with the status quo.

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IMO, IMHO, YMMV, AFAIK, to me, I see it as, from my perspective, it's been my experience, I only speak for myself, (and all other disclaimers here).

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 10:59:40 AM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		quote:


what would a mother say in that case of the mall?.. um honey.. well, she was on a leash because uh uh.. well.. they like BDSM and shes his slave?.. can you IMAGINE the follow up questions??

i couldn't IMAGINE the follow-up questions he'd ask me about seeing someone leashed!


once again we're taking things to extremes to prove an ordinary point. of course kids are going to be exposed to things day to day.. doesn't mean it has to start at FOUR. if my son could read a tshirt that said "muff diver" that's different than a four year old not being able to read and seeing someone leashed when typically ANIMALS are leashed.

leashing does two things:

it shows ownership

and it dehumanizes the leashed one (or it can show pride in being owned)..

people can show pride all they want.. but will i piss on my slave in public because it takes all types to make the world go 'round?


after i heard that kid once as her mom "why is he on a leash?" i thought.. hmm ok.

someone on a leash in public?.. that SCREAMS fetish.

end qoute

 
Those involved in the bdsm lifestyle are NOT the only ones to wear collars and leashes. Yes, these people where involved presumably in bdsm. However to say your leather pants are no different than the rubber well to some a collar and leash are no different than other piece of jewelry. To say that everyone who wears a collar or leash is in the lifestyle is presumptuous to say the least. Then to state their reasons are a, b, or c is silly. What if they simply like the look? What if  to them it is simply alterantive fashion like your leather or rubber?
 
Phoenix's Nika

< Message edited by Phoenixandnika -- 5/3/2006 11:06:16 AM >

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 11:21:52 AM   
OnyxGoddess


Posts: 242
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

I haven't made any comments re: being concerned about what my children might see while we're out in public so I'm not sure if this message was supposed to be in response to me or not. As a parent I realize there are a tonne of things I can't protect my kids from and I don't agree with the "Think of the children!" mentality that attempts to use kids as an excuse to curtail the personal freedom of adults. Nowhere in this thread have I said I don't want my kids exposed to this kind of thing in public. All of my comments have centered around general social conventions and values, not specifically about the well being of children.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OnyxGoddess

well...whether we like it or not our choices about what kids are exposed to are being taken away from us on a daily basis.  I for one do not flaunt my breasts or backside around.  but damned if these freaking women dont do it at the mall with the "titty" shirt and the shorts that have their bottoms hanging out of thier pants.  But do we say anything?  Hell we're bombarded by the victorias secrets scantily clad models day in day out...do we say anything?  and we in the bdsm community are complaining about children seeing a leash when they see bare flesh all day long.  give me a leash over t & a anyday.  I'd rather explain a leash and peircings anyday over why a woman has to be damn near naked to sell a product.




No no dear not aimed specifically at you.  Just me on a little tirade is all. LOL.  i hate when people say "oh god the children."  I'd rather teach my children tolerance and expression of self than censorship for a few people with their panties up their butt.  I do see your points tho.

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 11:24:38 AM   
EbonyFtshGoddess


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: Hollywood Hills, CA
Status: offline 		WeeIttyBitty

quote:

The reason I dont like public play (play with a group of like minded individuals is fine) but play where a member of the general public may see whats going on is a bad idea. First ethically, you are violating that persons consent... They didnt consent to watch you walk your slave down the street on a leash, violating someone's consent should be a serious ethical problem.. Secondly, the person maybe offended and interact with you in a negative manner. (Its hard to judge how big of threat this is, but its possible.) Third, they misinterpret the scene and call the police. (this happened to a friend of mine - playing a kidnap game in a parking lot - a cab driver saw the game, and phoned the police.)


i WHOLEheartedly concur!

they didn't CONSENT to that scene. that's why i don't play at public play parties typically.. because i have had people try to come up and disrupt a consensual scene. they had the right to turn away at a BDSM play club/party/fetish event/venue...\

but this mall thing  is different.. it was in a PUBLIC PLACE.

no one answered my question if he has her crawl at home.. why not have her crawl behind him at a mall?.. why not ride her back like the pony girl she is at home?

WHERE do we draw the line?

i know some people don't view it as a scene.. but let's face it.. ANY OUTWARD SHOW OF BDSM WILL BE CONSTRUED AS A SCENE TO OUTSIDERS!

even though it's just the way we live our lives.. fuck, if i could rule the world i'd be able to be carried around by my bitches or pulled around 24/7 in a sulkie by like 2 pony slaves.. i'd also make them wear rubber jockstraps because i LOVE a man in a rubber jockstrap- hey .. we're just expressing ourselves.. he's just expressing his devotion.. right?

uh no.

not reality.

sorry.. people can justify it all they want.. the old african adage comes to mind.

it takes a village to raise a child.

i'm not saying i will or WANT a "village' to raise my child.

but i will say this.. i don't want the village to upset the sensibilites of said child. and we all have an unspoken right not to fuck up other people's kids.. screw the adults.. if they haven't seen some kink in their lives.. well i feel sorry for them and they're pent up.. we all have deviations and fetishes.. but kids.. naah, it's not cool to make a parent have to explain this shit to their kids.. SORRY..

you know what holds society together?.. not the fact that we have laws.. laws are arbitrary and we all pick and choose which we want to obey.. no.. the fact that we MARGINALLY respect one another holds society together.

yeah i speed, but i don't jaywalk (i walk too damn slow to jaywalk).. i have smoked pot and i feel it should be legalized (here in CA things are different.. we have a WAY different view of pot than say. minnesota would..). would i withdraw money from an ATM that someone stupidly, absent-mindedly walked away from?- NO.. of course not. that's just MORALLY wrong and i have chased after people to SHOW them. that i could have raped their account.. in fact.. he was SHOCKED that i didnt.. i knew why..  i'm black, pierced tattooed and goth.. of course he'd expect the worse, but was surprised to see different.

respect for our fellow man is the seam of our perceived perception of *society*

vanillas expect the WORST from us.. leashing in public SHOWS that and validates their supposed claims.

morals and manners and proper etiquette aren't things that laws are comprised of..

they are every day sensibilities and respect that i HOPE people would show to others. yeah CAN you do what you want?.. of COURSE ! you can scream fire in a crowded theatre too.. helllloooooo.  should you? see this all comes down to a right to privacy and a right to freedom of expression debate..

when do we draw the line?

should you do what you want?.. and *hope* to maintain a society?

no.. society doesn't exist on laws..

it exists on our PERCEIVED civility to one another..

end of story


_____________________________

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 11:25:45 AM   
EbonyFtshGoddess


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: Hollywood Hills, CA
Status: offline
quote:

Those involved in the bdsm lifestyle are NOT the only ones to wear collars and leashes. Yes, these people where involved presumably in bdsm. However to say your leather pants are no different than the rubber well to some a collar and leash are no different than other piece of jewelry. To say that everyone who wears a collar or leash is in the lifestyle is presumptuous to say the least. Then to state their reasons are a, b, or c is silly. What if they simply like the look? What if to them it is simply alterantive fashion like your leather or rubber?


i'm not saying collar.

i'm saying collar AND a leash


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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 11:28:03 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsIncognito

But when we're talking about society as a whole not just our own families and homes who's to say what is WITHIN REASON? What one person might consider quite reasonable (like snapping a leash on your slave and leading them about in the mall) is just as reasonable to someone else? That's the whole point of having generally accepted societal standards. While I could care less if someone leads another about by a collar I think we're all smart enough to know that this is not WITHIN REASON for the general public.

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
Now i'm not giving her permission to do out nude... have sex... do drugs.... shoot no damn one.... as I said... this is WITHIN REASON.... and in this situation at the mall..... It's WITHIN REASON...



OK Asked.. just what is within reason?... You see it has someone pushing something that others find offensive... I find it not. I may not like the look of an outfit you are wearing.. it offends me... big damn deal.  Half the shit said on these forums are offensive to someone.. even claiming to live the same life style... and what do we tell them... DEAL WITH IT... or stay away from it. So there for.. if going to a mall... where people from all walks of life are going to be.. either deal with it... or stay the hell away from it.

MoonGoddessIsis...... these slaves were not embarrassed in the least.  There was no one put in "A Spot" on this. The Security guard didn't approach a slave.... it was a Dom that was approached.

It's obvious this is a agree to disagree thread... that's all fine and dandy.... were some see it as no big things.. others are... I didn't see it as a big deal even when I posted this thread..... what I was wondering... was others thoughts... and possibly other experience with this... I got their thughts.. but it's so nice to see no one else has ever witness this... save but 2 so far... 3 including me.. Are we that much hidden... ashamed... of remotely bringing one thing about who we are out into the light? It's possible to do this.. with out going to extremes.. and I still state this wasn't extreme... kneeling.. fucking.. nudity... would of been extreme..... Some wear their collars in public... but so as to not offend... and hide who and what you are... you choose to wear a wedding band and or necklace to represent your slavery. Nothing wrong with that... specially when one is ashamed to to show their real collar... or scared to offend someone.... but it's ok for all of us to go out in public while hiding... and let others offend us with their bullshit.... from language... clothes... jewlery..... kids running wild... bad breath..... etc....etc....etc.... oh and let's not forget the ones walking up to you and insisting GOD WILL PUNISH YOU FOR YOUR WAYS.... lol... can't leave them out either...

Time to get kid to ortho doctor for new cast on broken ankle... oh the joys of motherhood.... MOM.. why did this happen... how did this happen... because you were doing cartwheels.... showing who you are as a athlete... and showing off for a boy... not paying attention... and landing WRONG...lol... plan and simple... to the point.. we all have to decide if our actions... are worth... the outcome...




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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 11:28:24 AM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		Again those involved in the lifestyle are NOT the only people to wear a collar and or leash either seperately or together. To many people I know they are simply peices of jewelry or alternative clothing much like your rubber and leather.
 
Phoenix's Nika

_____________________________

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 11:33:06 AM   
EbonyFtshGoddess


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: Hollywood Hills, CA
Status: offline
quote:

Again those involved in the lifestyle are NOT the only people to wear a collar and or leash either seperately or together. To many people I know they are simply peices of jewelry or alternative clothing much like your rubber and leather.


i have no problem with people that wear collars..

attach a leash to it and lead someone where people may not *want* to see it.. or kids.

yeah.. sorry. i have a problem

shit i wear collars..

i have a steel collar with 6" spikes that i wear out and about if it matches my outfit.

but if a LEASH (ie.. like the principle querent posted in a mall).. attached to it.. yeah.. not cool..

that's taking our dungeon and lifestyle into the public arena where people may be REALLY upset.




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(in reply to Phoenixandnika)
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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 11:35:59 AM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		Gotta love labels.
 
By your standard everyone who wears a leash and collar is BDSM?And everyone who wears a leash and collar in public is brinign a dungeon into the "vanilla world"?
 
I think I will simply agree to disagree and chalk it up to wonderful labels and stereotypes.
 
Blessed Be,
 
Phoenix's Nika

< Message edited by Phoenixandnika -- 5/3/2006 11:36:58 AM >

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 12:06:41 PM   
EbonyFtshGoddess


Posts: 446
Joined: 1/1/2006
From: Hollywood Hills, CA
Status: offline
quote:

Gotta love labels.

By your standard everyone who wears a leash and collar is BDSM?And everyone who wears a leash and collar in public is brinign a dungeon into the "vanilla world"?

I think I will simply agree to disagree and chalk it up to wonderful labels and stereotypes.

Blessed Be,

Phoenix's Nika


i'll take something with me that i've learned from another thread

"yes dear", whatever you say..

twist and misconstrue my words all you wish.

what i've said has been clear. there needn't be additional question.. there is no "so what you mean  to say is...." or "by your standard.. XYZ.."

no, what i've said has been said and is rather evident/clear.

so yea, drag someone on a collar AND leash.. is sorta wrong.. that has been said...yes by my standards anyone that wears a leash and collar is dragging their kinks to others out of their 'dungeon'/'bedroom.'

and no, i won't back down.. but from henceforth..


yes dear,. a slave with their master.. yes and the slave is on a leash IS dragging their lifestyle out before some impressionable ones.. when NOT in an adult appropriate arena.

gloss over what i say if you want.. i think i've made myself rather clear.


< Message edited by EbonyFtshGoddess -- 5/3/2006 12:14:09 PM >

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 12:55:06 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		This isn't a reply to anyone but this thread seems like a good place to bitch.

Now I'm out -- I publish and teach under the same name, my real name, and I never hide what I am but I'm also relatively normal looking to most folks.

One of the things I do at my university is that I do these panels for a sociology professor who is also a member of the BDSM community (but she does not tell her students). The panels are for her human sexuality classes and she has panels for all sorts of things ending with folks in the BDSM community. We come dressed as we would to be on campus and talk about your relationship primarily by answering questions that the students ask based on class readings and on things they see in pop media around them. We do a visualization at the beginning and usually 30-50% of the students seem to have positive experiences with things we might define as Ds or SM.

I am getting to the bitching; hold on.

Some times Fox goes with me to these events and he has also done them without me when I was not available. We went to one a week ago in fact.

He only had a half-day at work today and he came up very upset.

Turns out one of his co-workers is friends with a student in this class who felt the need to tell her about what Fox said in the class. Now this co-worker is telling everyone in Fox's office. In general when the topic of sexuality comes up in the office Fox ignores the discussions or he tells me that he says very neutral things -- he frankly doesn't think sexuality is an appropriate topic at the office.

Now he's very upset because he found out from another co-worker who said "I thought you should know that these things are being spread around about you." Fox confirmed some of them and stated he didn't think sexuality related to their job.

However he is very worried about who his supervisor's boss might think because this woman has expressed very conservative views on sexuality when the topics arise.

He has applied for a promotion and he is now worried about this affecting him.

Me? I'm pissed! I'm really pissed!

I do these panels to educate people. I do them because I know that a few people in every class we've been to have ended up being into BDSM and they were so happy to learn they aren't alone.

I've been through something similar before but I'm a graduate student and in history no one frankly gives a damn about your private life as long as you do your research, do your teaching and progress through things in a timely fashion.

And Fox does not need this considering the family-0f-orgins stuff he is dealing with and some past abuse issues that are rearing up in need of care. He's been working so hard on those and now this....

Things happen to him and I get so hyperprotective.

*deep breath*

Yes, he knew the risks as do I but after 6 years of panels he's never had a problem so its blindsiding us.

Thank you all for reading my ranting... I feel a bit better now.

_____________________________

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TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to EbonyFtshGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 1:44:02 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
He has applied for a promotion and he is now worried about this affecting him.


If he can ever establish that his sexuality was cause for being passed over for promotion, it's a lawsuit.

That's why this stuff is more important than what offends people's delicate sensibilities. Discrimination is not only illegal, it's pointedly unfair! It wasn't fair for African-Americans, American Indians, women, gay people, etc - and it's no fairer now if it is used against you for any reason including your sexual preferences.

So I say up with public displays of who we are because some of us aren't going anywhere. Will you live in the shadows forever?

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RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 4:28:09 PM   
JoeBlack


Posts: 25
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline 		The ACLU settled a lawsuit brought on behalf of several students who wanted to form a gay-straight alliance (GSA) club at Boyd County High School in Ashland, Kentucky. The settlement requires that the district treat all student clubs equally and conduct anti-harassment trainings for all students and staff. Several students had first petitioned the school to form the gay-straight alliance in March 2002. The school initially refused to approve the club, and then later took the extraordinary step of suspending all student clubs rather than recognize the GSA.

"Because the Supreme Court has held that students have a First Amendment right to free speech at school unless that speech disrupts the educational process, many administrators try to justify illegal censorship by claiming a student's speech is disruptive without any evidence or proof that it really is," said Jeff Gamso, legal director at the ACLU of Ohio. "But for the censorship to be legal, the speech itself must be genuinely disruptive -- it can't just be censored because someone finds it offensive or it generates discussion or the administration is worried that it might cause controversy."
In January, results of a national survey by the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation of more than 100,000 high school students were released showing that nearly three-fourths of high school students either don't care or don't know how they feel about the First Amendment, or admit they take it for granted.
"Schools that prevent students from expressing their opinions on gay rights or any other issue are not only failing their duties to teach students how to be good citizens -- they're also violating the United States Constitution," said Dick Kurtenbach, Executive Director of the ACLU of Kansas and Western Missouri who represents Myers. "With those who are supposed to be teaching our young people acting this way, it's no wonder so many students don't understand or value their First Amendment rights."

nuff said...

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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 5:30:34 PM   
feastie


Posts: 1793
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Ebony,

I have to tell you, the gulf between our tastes and forms of our personal BDSM are expansive.  However, we are right together on this issue.  You've made your point well and I appreciate it.

Personally, I still feel that there are much more productive...and...more intelligent ways, of expressing oneself with regard to BDSM, even in public.

I don't know any of you people.  None of you know me.  I can tell you, I don't give a rat's ass what your personal life is about and it is really none of my business.  So why would you want to make it my business by shoving my nose in it in a public venue?

I'd like to add, as well, that a mall, while being open to the general public, is a privately owned property.  That means they can kick out whoever they want, for the reasons they want.  For all any of us know, this might not have been a first occurrence with these folks.  They may have caused a disturbance at some point in the past.  It may not even be related to the leashes.  They may have been asked to remove the leashes and refused.  If they refused, then I guess it would have been their choice to leave, wouldn't it?

_____________________________

Snarky and loving it.

Disclaimer: Any views expressed in any post are my opinions only. They may or may not be yours.

(in reply to EbonyFtshGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 5:45:48 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie
I'd like to add, as well, that a mall, while being open to the general public, is a privately owned property.  That means they can kick out whoever they want, for the reasons they want. 


That is not a settled matter in law, it remains a controversy. I mentioned it before already. Yes, I know that's what the mall security guards will tell you, and the police may even parrot that false legal advice. I don't take false legal advice, not even from the police. BTW, the police are allowed to lie to you, trick you, whatever - it's not a crime. Read Miranda v Arizona.

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to feastie)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 6:57:29 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

Oh please! So the people who disagree with it are forcing their views on others but the people leading each other around on leashes weren't forcing their view on others? Let's quit being so coy about this - it's not about "expressing" yourself. The bottom line is that this is not considered acceptable behaviour in public. Period. Anyone with half a brain knows that. IMO, these people were doing the same thing that teenagers do with PDA's and cussing loudly - trying to get attention and they got it! If they ended up getting attention they didn't like well that's a real bummer, ain't it? IMO, it's incredibly immature to insist that others tolerate things that we know darn well are outside societal norms because we feel we have some birthright to "express" ourselves. If I want to express that side of myself I go to a play party or a club. It's not about saving the children (or adults for that matter) from seeing something that might be offensive it's about understanding societal conventions and norms and being a mature adult and behaving appropriately for the venue. We seem to want all this tolearance and respect yet we don't give much of it in return. Only the truly immature would consider that stifling themselves. Yeesh.


LOL  - never said i would do it.  Which i wouldnt.  i think i'd be er.. highly shy i suppose.  Far as other people go, i could care less = )  Heck i already put up with other peoples crap.  Never said its expressing yourself.  Yeaaaah, ya know... i dont think so.  i said if they "think its okay" that is "their view" JUST because others "dont think its okay" doesnt mean either of you are right or wrong.  Its all opionon.  There's alot of crap out there that isnt cool with me. 

Yoooooooou try explaining to your half latin daughter what the word "nigglet" is.  Now i generally despise racial slurs.. and i despise them even more around my wee one.  Not really socially acceptable either.  Doesnt mean i can slam my fist into the offenders face does it?  Nah, it'd sorta be like forcing my own views on another.  Then of course, well violence.  <grins>  Anywho, you just explain to your wee one about ignorant and inbred ppl.  LOL (joking.. i just said it twas a bad word and it better never come out of her mouth)

The way i feel though.. is if the WORLD will stop exposing me and mine to things i find offensive.. inappropriate.. well

Others arent tolerante of my views.  Hell, most people would tell me to go to hell.  Why would i be any different?  Perfect world.. perfect world.. But its not.  To be better?  Two wrongs dont make a right?  Screw that.  If i have to be tolerant of others.. sure as hell they're going to be tolerant of me.  Sure as hell. 

Saying that i dont even like going out in public in a short short skirt.. but no matter, is it?  Though i do find my little ways.. = )

This thread makes me want to go out in a leash.  Just to say "screw you" to all the intolerant ppl out there.  Heck, i give those that can props.. as i couldnt.  Different strokes for different folks.. and who are YOU to say its wrong?

(in reply to MsIncognito)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... - 5/3/2006 7:29:43 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		There's public displays of S&M and then there's overtly sexual public displays of S&M. I love it when my partner wears his tshirt which reads "Take Control...". It makes me all gooey inside. I have a tshirt that says "Relax, it's just sex" on the back, and I love that one too. We've both worn these kinds of tshirts to malls, to restaurants, to take a walk down the street. They're tshirts that display s&m in a non-overt but still fun way-they express our views (as does my tshirt which reads "Stop bitching, start a revolution" and my Tori Amos concert tee, and my "Chesapeke Bay Foundation" baseball cap) but they aren't crude or forceful.

Wearing a leash in public, especially at a mall (or a restaurant), is overtly sexual and crude. It implies that the person wearing it is subhuman (as most people consider a leash to be the accessory of an animal), and is often associated with people of a distinct S&M persuasion, which most people view as a sexual deviance.

Compare it to, say, wearing a PETA tshirt and carrying around a dead animal carcass while people are eating at a steak house. One of them supports your opinion on the consumption of animal flesh, and the other is totally in your face. One of them invites the onlooker to take an interest, and the other dares you NOT to look.

Which one do you think is more appropriate?

_____________________________

"Time travel: It's a cornocopia of disturbing concepts." ~Ron Stoppable

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 140
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