RE: Discrimination in Public Places....

RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (Full Version)

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MistressLorelei -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/3/2006 8:25:09 PM)
The majority of those of us in the lifestyle have a vanilla side and manage to blend our bdsm lifestyle with it. If a person would be able to show up to dinner with his boss, his Grandmother or baby nephew, without walking his girlfriend/slave on a leash, then he is able to do so at other appropriate times as well. Sure, I can tell my child those people are just being silly and have no common sense- ignore them... but why should I have to? A mall during business hours is vanilla. If you can't maintain a side you know is acceptable in such a place... then go elsewhere. If you must exert your 'Dominance' in the open all the time by expressing yourself in such a fashion, there are public places (clubs, locations like south beach, greenwich village, the beach at 2am, etc) which might be a bit more acceptable to do so. For those who want to bring bdsm out in the open and raise public awareness that we can be involved in bdsm and still be intelligent, mature, sane people who contribute to society... walking around flaunting a lack of common sense, and immaturely looking/acting like the social deviants society already thinks we are is not helping our case. Public play can be done in ways which do not invade the rights of others. I would consider a Dominant who plays with common sense to be far more knowledgeable than one who doesn't.

Chaingang -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/3/2006 9:57:00 PM)
truesub4u: I just gotta know - is there a "Hot Topic" in the mall in question?

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/3/2006 10:06:22 PM)
quote: Well Cin, I know the examples I used are on the more extreme end....at least they are for me...and obviously they are for you too. But I would bet that for a satanist...or a racist...or a homophobic....those issues are not extreme.... probably not anymore extreme than collars and leashes are to you. I bet they feel they have every right to "express" themselves just as you do. It's in the perspective...your perspective is that they are hateful and intolerant, most people would likely agree, including myself. Bottom line, hate literature, including slogans, is against the law. There is no law against being fully clothed wearing a collar and leash in public. It's not overtly sexual, certianly not as overt as kissing, and as far as I'm concerned, as an educator, it does not endanger children in any way. A simple "because they like it", will usually suffice. I really wish I could have been home today to follow this thread, it's been really interesting, but I think I've summed up my position already when I said, it takes a few brave souls to step out of society's complacent comfort zone to help us move forward. Where would gay people be without Stonewall? Where would black people be without Rosa Parks, et al.? I'm really suprised to see such complacency and closemindedness here, but, I suppose that's just the way human nature is. We often take the path of least resistance, even though it's limiting. We should be fighting for our rights, not condemning the ones who are doing our fighting for us. Cin

Phoenixandnika -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/3/2006 10:23:09 PM)
Now I am curious what our local mall would do if I went in with a collar and Phoenix holding aleash. I mean there is a hot topic, victoria sectret and several other adult orientated stores on the mall. ponders and plots Phoenix's Nika

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/3/2006 10:37:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RiotGirl This thread makes me want to go out in a leash. Just to say "screw you" to all the intolerant ppl out there. ROFL I love the way you don't pull punches. Personally this thought has been rolling around in my head since about page 2 of this thread. Good on ya!! I walked under the "Friends and Family" banner of the Gay (now Pride) Parade, in the eighties, and I took a stance that I wasn't going to stay silent on having gay friends, or on homosexuality in general, sometime in that same decade. I wouldn't stay in the closet as a fag-magnet, and I sure as hell won't stay in one as a submissive. I have too much pride in who I am, and too much integrity to stand by and let ignorance have its way. As far as I'm concerned, quietly going about the normal social business of grabbing a bite in a mall, with collar and leash on, is a nice conservative way of letting people know we are out there. Consider it the equivalent of a gay person wearing a rainbow t-shirt. It's not obscene, doesn't harm children, and it's well within my legal right to self-expression. Cin

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/3/2006 11:03:51 PM)
True, this was an awesome thread, so I'm thanking you by making my 1,000th post right here!! [sm=banana.gif][sm=dance.gif][sm=banana.gif][sm=dance.gif][sm=banana.gif] Maybe I should celebrate? ::putting on my leash and collar, and heading to the mall...:: Cin

MistressLorelei -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/3/2006 11:28:19 PM)
A follow up.... I take pride in my femininity, but I don't need to flash My breasts or wear six inch heels and stockings everywhere I go... I take pride in my intelligence, but I let it speak for itself... (no Mensa T-shirt required), I take pride in my role in the bdsm community and carry it with me always... It's a part of me, and whether everyone can see bdsm oozing out of me every moment of the day, or not... it's there. The public can know we are out there without having to share every intimate detail of how we enjoy relating to our partners. Are the vanilla people in the closet because they aren't hanging out on the mall floor in the missionary position. Perhaps a condom necklace would shout to the world that they are involved. I think the idea of a human being being walked on a leash is a contradiction in what we teach our children.... human rights, gender equality, respecting others... people don't understand any other meaning behind the leash. A collar one choses to wear on their own person does not appear to violate the rights of a second human being, the way a leash does. What about standing up for the rights of our children who are watching us and to them the mall scene shows that the guys in that situation valued their girlfriends as much as their dogs.

CERCKL -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 12:11:07 AM)
Laughing...I have mellowed in My old age. In My teens and twenties I never cared what anyone thought, I remember going to buy cigarettes and throwing on a T-shirt and jeans and having the cashier staring at Me and saying "That takes balls" when I asked what, he pointed at My shirt...it was a band t-shirt for 'BOMB" and had a drawing of Jesus eating out a nun with her legs over his shoulders and screaming...I forgot I was wearing it...at the time I was very hardcore/goth/ecclectic and though I hadn't really gotten into BDSM in a public manner, little phased Me then...or now. Was it 'appropriate' in public, perhaps not, but I don't know the age, etc... but if I remember right you're in the South? Here, they'ld get looked at, but that's about it and downtown they'ld just be another of the 'freakshow'... Myself...pretty mellow looking and I've never gotten into PDA all that much...but the one time she had worn her collar in public, I was honored and I rarely care what those close to Me think...(right?) Another inappropriate post... C

MstrFury -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 2:40:38 AM)
all I want to add to my other comments on this thread is this..... I'm sure glad I live as I do...been doing so for over 25yrs......been living in this place for almost 19 of those.......it's my way...my style....I'm a black man living in the deep south....I have a white slave/wife....I'm poly.....and whenever I go out in public....what attire I wear...is comfortable to me and those with me..... just as some may find wearing a suit and tie as their comfort level....I find wearing...biker/leather gear....my comfort level.......have there been times of public display....well duh.....almost every day........but the difference for me is....it's who I am...and being in this location for as long as I have.....if there is notice or comment...it's usually from a visitor to the area.....I'm out and about..as are those with me....as we would be....it's normal for me to do so..... therefore I guess I've been ramming my lifestyle down the throats of this fair city...every day for 19 years......funny thing..its opened more doors than closed them....even the mildly curious...have stopped and asked simple basic questions...and walked away...at times with that all knowing look in their eyes.....( if only I had the balls to be brave enough to do that).......but as I say...it's a normal action for me....something not even thought about..... but opinions made here make me wonder.....so many hide-a-doms.......but as with all aspects of this lifestyle...whatever floats your boat.......hey if there can be (bedroom submissives)......I guess living your life in a closet is a kink too.... pulling my cloak around me and stepping back into the shadows...

SirCumsSlut -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 3:09:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truesub4u This post is a very small rant... about being able to show ourselves off to the outside world... to a point. Let me explain what happened..... this past weekend... I was at the mall with a group of goth wanna be teens (I was the taxi mom... lol).... anyways... we're in the food court having lunch when we hear a commotion going on. I look over and I see about 6 people being rousted by security. They were being asked to leave the mall because of their behavior. There was 2 Doms... 1 Mistress... 2 female subs... 1 male. Now these Dominants were well dressed... for a mall anyways. As were the submissives.... with this little exception....one of the female and the male subs wore their collars and their owners had them on leashes. The other female slave wore a collar only... but I seen her Owners leash on his belt loop rolled up like one does a whip. Now these were not big gaudy collars like you see on large dogs. No spike sticking out all over. No serious skin showing. No kneeling before owners on the floor while owners chatted and ate. Now I know some will say... "Forcing our life on others in public is a no no"... and to a small point I understand this. The whole aspect of having to explain to a child when asked... "Why is that person leading the other with a dog leash like fluffy has?" And yes I had to explain it to mine as the rousting was taking place...... because I allow mine freedom of expression... it didn't surprise me when they voiced their disapproval over these 6 being thrown out for expressing themselves as well. Ok rant done... so i'm curious... have others witness this.. or been through this... when just trying to be comfortable..... and or obeying.... while out in public. I mean.. really.. I can understand the outragous.... but i'm curious about the small and simple as well... [:D] Not long after Sir collared me, we went to an Allman Brothers concert (Sir's 40th b-day present many years ago). When the limo arrived at the stadium, Sir got out and led me out of the limo by my leash (which he no longer uses), the security personell as well as other concert goers looked at me (not Him) with mostly signs of awe in their eyes. The security personell did not deny us access to the concert but did inform Sir that my collar and leash would have to be removed as they deemed them "weapons" LOL..........Sir complied as The Allman Brothers are one of his favorite bands (the sucked that night and we left early)....Any way that was the first last and only time Sir and I went out into a "vanilla" venue with my leash attached to my collar. Ocassionally when we go out, I do wear my formal collar, but because of it's design, it resembles a wide choker...I do get some looks, but more often than not we just get smiles [;)] In places such as the mall, the zoo or other areas where children are present, Sir would never "leash" me as we too have small children.....but I do not agree that these folks should have been escorted from the mall.........maybe security should have asked the Dominants to remove the leashes from the two slaves and then let them all go on their merry way......Sadly, "normal" society will always look at "US" as deviants....when secretly they wish they could be more forthright like those of us in the lifestyle....Sad state that this country has come too.....

calamitysandra -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 3:13:32 AM)
I don`t think it is possible to reconcile the two groups of opinions in this. Bottom line is, everybody has to decide for her/himself, if it is aprobiate or not to go out with a leash. And everybody has to deal with the consequences if doing so. May that be accepting to be roused or suit. I, personally have no problem seeing somebody lead on a leash. As for children seeing this, my way to handle things like this situation, is to tell my kids "go and ask". Which answer should I provide my kids with? I could only make a guess, a educated one, but a guess nonetheless. So I let them ask the people who know. In this case, it would have meant, that the Dom/Domme and the Slave would have to explain the lash to a curious six year old. Sandra BTW: Hi!

MsIncognito -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 5:10:24 AM)
Well, gee, thanks for stating the obvious [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: Proprietrix quote: ORIGINAL: MsIncognito I was just waiting for this argument to come up. To basically say that these people are doing all of "us" a favour and we're kicking them when they're down is just a ridiculous attempt to shame and guilt us into jumping on the Rah!Rah! bandwagon. I don't recall asking anyone else in the "community" to take these risks on my behalf nor does their risk taking benefit me in any way because I won't be out there on a leash/wearing a corset/cuffs/etc even if it does become socially acceptable because of people who push for those changes. If they want to push for change good for them. I'll support them in the same way that I'd support anyone who is standing up for something they believe in which is pretty much limited to a "good for them" and then I get on with my life. Not everyone in the community WANTS or NEEDS these so-called "freedoms" so please don't insinuate that we should all be grateful because others want to flaunt their kink. It's of absolutely no consequence to me either way so I can't really get too worked up about it beyond posting on a message board about it. I still feel the way I did when I originally posted - if you're going to do something you know isn't socially acceptable then accept the consequences of doing so. If you feel its for the greater good then again, good for you. But please don't act like every kinky person on the face of the planet should offer unmitigated support. By the same token... Rosa Parks wasn't speaking for the black people who were content with the status quo. Susan B. Anthony wasn't speaking for the women who were content with the status quo. PETA doesn't speak for vegans that are content with the status quo. Ceasar Chavez didn't speak for migrant farm workers who were content with the status quo.

agirl -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 5:50:01 AM)
quote: but I think I've summed up my position already when I said, it takes a few brave souls to step out of society's complacent comfort zone to help us move forward. quote: ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful quote: I'm really suprised to see such complacency and closemindedness here, but, I suppose that's just the way human nature is. We often take the path of least resistance, even though it's limiting. We should be fighting for our rights, not condemning the ones who are doing our fighting for us. Cin Far from complacency and closemindedness........I think that the people posting in this thread have shown very much so that are NOT complacent and most certainly haven't shown a closeminded attitude, either.. They've read and digested and taken made an effort to post a view. What I find incredibly strange is the notion that people are fighting for "us".....they most certainly are NOT. They are NOT fighting for me or my rights...what's more......I am not an us .....I'm an individual who lives a certain way perfectly easily and happily......I'm not suppressed at all. I don't think wearing a collar and leash in public is a big deal at all... I also don't think it's very much about M/s either ...it's just people wearing stuff. A collar and leash says bugger-all about being owned. agirl

RiotGirl -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 7:32:56 AM)
quote: ROFL I love the way you don't pull punches. Personally this thought has been rolling around in my head since about page 2 of this thread. Good on ya!! I walked under the "Friends and Family" banner of the Gay (now Pride) Parade, in the eighties, and I took a stance that I wasn't going to stay silent on having gay friends, or on homosexuality in general, sometime in that same decade. I wouldn't stay in the closet as a fag-magnet, and I sure as hell won't stay in one as a submissive. I have too much pride in who I am, and too much integrity to stand by and let ignorance have its way. As far as I'm concerned, quietly going about the normal social business of grabbing a bite in a mall, with collar and leash on, is a nice conservative way of letting people know we are out there. Consider it the equivalent of a gay person wearing a rainbow t-shirt. It's not obscene, doesn't harm children, and it's well within my legal right to self-expression. Cin Really liked your gay/black equivilence. You're right you know? It used to be inappropriate to be gay in public.. holding hands. Heck it used to be inappropriate period. i know my own mother still thinks its GROSS and any thing related to it... well she says ew. Funny, she tries to teach my wee one that being gay is gross.. but by her comments. BOY did i put a STOP to that! Helllloooooooooooo.. its wrong!. Who cares if she thinks its inappropriate? Course i had to reason with her on her own wave length and ability to reason. So i explained to her, when my wee one is an adult, its going to be a very open and "normal" thing (they're still fighting for their rights and predjudice against them), for my wee one to think its gross will do her more harm then good. Did you know some churches find it inappropriate to enter it if you're gay? i know.. as i've a friend whose a lesbian and the church where she lives.. being gay.. you're going straight to hell. The surrounding gay community (round her house whot not) go to THEIR church. This in a cosmopolitan area up by Washington DC. Rosa Parks.. did ya know it used to be inappropriate for blacks and whites to use the same bathroom, for blacks to sit at the front of the bus? Yeaaaaaah. Did you know it used to be inappropriate for women to hold a job outside the home? To even think about voting? did you know in the early 1900's it was inappropriate for a child to not work in a factory? Did you know that its appropriate to do scientific experimentation on live animals? Does anyone know that a large portion of our food industry comes from mistreated animals? Do you even care? i suppose its okay to rip the beaks off of chickens, because its more cost effiecent to throw them all in one big barn.. and with a hierarchy of some sort, they get confused and peck each other to death. So why not just rip their beaks off. THAT MUST BE appropriate.. as you know.. we all eat chicken.. and the eggs. Its okay right? Bullsh** As Cin said.. how did this stuff become to be more appropriate? More acceptable? Why gee, not by the majority of the ppl in this thread! Yeaaaaaaah.. follow the mass.. be like everyone else.. fit in.. even though its a lie. You know some pple still blanche at the site of two men kissing on the street.. find it inappropriate even.. yet in some countries its very very normal. ITS ALL PERSPECTIVE - get it into your heads. No one here is right, and no one is wrong. Its a FREE country - ppl can do as they please so long as they arent caught breaking the major laws. Who the hell are you ppl to tell others what they can and cant do, whats right for them, to push your own perspective onto them? What gives you the right? If you DONT like it, DONT look! Doh Dont throw stones when you live in a glass house. Ya know, i find your perspectives inappropriate.. i'm greatly offended.. i suppose i should have a cow.. and judge.. Oh wait.. maybe if i have a problem (that being a personal problem with a situation) i should leave.. but then. Everyone HERE has the right to say what they please huh. To think, act, say, do as they please. So long as you follow the rules.. and as some one said.. its NOT breaking the law hmmmm i think we should go a step further.. i think i'll ask Himself a new standard rule. "When ever out in public, one should crawl behind my Master, 6 feet behind and to the right" LOL yeaaaaaaaaah.. screw you for telling me what i can and cant do! (aaaaah and this isnt directed at anyone of course.. i'm merely speaking my mind in a general manner.. granted i respect a majority in this thread even if your perspective/views differ from mine - i'm just explaining my perspective)

RiotGirl -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 7:34:25 AM)
quote: Maybe I should celebrate? ::putting on my leash and collar, and heading to the mall...:: Cin ROFL

RiotGirl -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 7:38:10 AM)
quote: The public can know we are out there without having to share every intimate detail of how we enjoy relating to our partners. aaaaaaaaaaah.. so its not wise to stop and tell strangers that last night Himself was biting my clit and i was in pain and then he flogged my arse.. and i bout swooned over in excasty.. oh.. and how Himself has stretched my arse to the point where i can take a bowling ball up it? Maybe i'll wear a T-shirt that says "Master stretched my ass out and i can now take a bowling ball up it" Collar and leash.. sound so unlike an "intimate detail" Hmmmmm what sounds abit intimate is what i put above... though none of its true, but only for you to get the gist of it

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 7:38:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirCumsSlut Sadly, "normal" society will always look at "US" as deviants....when secretly they wish they could be more forthright like those of us in the lifestyle....Sad state that this country has come too..... But my point has been, all along, that this kind of thinking is defeatist. If the gay community had of settled for this attitude they wouldn't have the right to marriage in 5 countries. They wouldn't have spousal benefits, or the right to adopt. Had black Americans accepted the status quo there would still be slavery. Had women accepted the status quo, we wouldn't have the vote. Change IS possible...You just have to stand up and be counted. Really, I am sooo amazed that people seem to be missing this point. Political Correctness can, and does, have its good points, but it can also kill progress. Just when I figure I'm done debating this thread, I can't help but try one more time...There's a huge principle at stake here, and many people seem oblivious to it. Cin

mountainpet -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 8:00:51 AM)
I wish more people would think before inflicting their lifestyle choices on others. Hubby and I used to live in a childfree condo, and the owners had to fight constantly to keep people from involuntarily exposing us to their choices. You see that in restaurants a lot too- boob flashing; sometimes even diaper changing. Ugh!!

RapturesDaddy -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 8:25:45 AM)
My opinion - I have mie wear a slightly overt symbol of her devotion to me when we are in public. I prefer this to be something that perhaps others in the lifetyle would recognize, but not vanilla folks. Something that vanillas would look at and wonder "what is that" but not see as a symbol of her or my interests. Nothing sexual or off, just....... "something". That being said, I think that "our world" is just that. It is our world. People know of it. Many are curious, some desire to be a part of it, but havent the guts to persue their desires. This is not to say that we should not welcone new people. Just the opposite. However, I see our lifestyle as a "privledged" place. Those who choose to hide their desires, or would scoff us do not deserve to see such things. They are not worthy of that glimpse into our world. Just like the mysterious world of true Geisha for example. Everyone wonders, has opinions, etc, but no one really knows the truth, nor should they, unless they take the path to enlightenment. In short? The common vanilla populous doesnt deserve to see such things in my opinon. They haven't "earned" the right. Not to mention dragging your subbie around the mall on a leash and collar is just tacky. This is an opinion of course, but it is mine nonetheless.

MistressLorelei -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/4/2006 8:28:27 AM)
Those of us in the lifestyle are chosing a way to live our lives... The same way people everywhere do.... Some people are nudists, some people are smokers, some people have a passion for playing the drums. Thing is we have restrictions for nudists and smokers... and drummers might enjoy drumming as a huge part of their lives, but would not think it's okay to do it at the mall. Should we fight for the rights of the drummer to be able to display his lifestyle choice anywhere? I don't see that wishing to live a bdsm lifestyle is the same as fighting for the right to chose a partner of either gender, or equal rights for all races, colors and genders. We have the right to live our lifestyle, we have a right to vote because of it.... having the common sense to express ourselves in a civil way in public is something we don't have. Living a bdsm lifestyle is no comparison to that of a black person sitting at the front of a bus, a gay person having a partner and the rights that go with it, or a minority having the same rights as a non-minority. The world is full of "lifestyle". We enjoy ours... others enjoy being nude, others enjoy playing music at loud levels all day long... we can't accomodate everyone in the mall who wishes to have freedom of lifestyle. We strive to protect children from violence, and inhumane treatmment of anyone, give them a safe, healthy environment. I do see a huge principle at stake... our children. Perhaps I should bring my child to the mall with a bunch of noisy toys and allow her to run all over the place playing underfoot.... it 's her lifestyle. edited to add: While I have walked a male on a leash in a non-vanilla setting; I do not want My daughter, when she is 12 to think it's okay to take her boyfriend for a walk at the mall. Adults lead by example. One only knows to look away... after being exposed to what she/he has seen.

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