Discrimination in Public Places.... (Full Version)

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truesub4u -> Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/1/2006 11:47:07 PM)

This post is a very small rant... about being able to show ourselves off to the outside world... to a point. Let me explain what happened..... this past weekend... I was at the mall with a group of goth wanna be teens (I was the taxi mom... lol).... anyways... we're in the food court having lunch when we hear a commotion going on. I look over and I see about 6 people being rousted by security. They were being asked to leave the mall because of their behavior. There was 2 Doms... 1 Mistress... 2 female subs... 1 male. Now these Dominants were well dressed... for a mall anyways. As were the submissives.... with this little exception....one of the female and the male subs wore their collars and their owners had them on leashes. The other female slave wore a collar only... but I seen her Owners leash on his belt loop rolled up like one does a whip.

Now these were not big gaudy collars like you see on large dogs. No spike sticking out all over. No serious skin showing. No kneeling before owners on the floor while owners chatted and ate.

Now I know some will say... "Forcing our life on others in public is a no no"... and to a small point I understand this. The whole aspect of having to explain to a child when asked... "Why is that person leading the other with a dog leash like fluffy has?" And yes I had to explain it to mine as the rousting was taking place...... because I allow mine freedom of expression... it didn't surprise me when they voiced their disapproval over these 6 being thrown out for expressing themselves as well.

Ok rant done... so i'm curious... have others witness this.. or been through this... when just trying to be comfortable..... and or obeying....  while out in public. I mean.. really.. I can understand the outragous.... but i'm curious about the small and simple as well...  




CrappyDom -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 12:00:38 AM)

There is a time and a place and a mall is NOT the place for that sort of shit.  They got exactly what they deserved.

Now I have seen discreet things go on in cafe's and such in more sections of the city and that in my mind is cool, but malls are full of young kids...




MsMacComb -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 12:07:03 AM)

I think if I was out in public and saw what you described I myself would have gone over to them and pointed out politely that I am in the lifestyle and feel its inappropriate in view of minors and even adults. To me thats just a form of PDA which I dislike in most public areas (exceptions bars, clubs etc).




apb -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 12:08:47 AM)

Hi truesub!

I went out with MissTress's Dom male one night and we ventured in to Wal Mart at around 2am with him leading me around on a heavy duty chain attached to my collar.

It was a very interesting experience for me.  First off, I laughed continuously for about 5 minutes, just because I was enjoying the whole "collared and leashed in public" experience.

Secondly, I noticed that NO ONE would look at either one of us - not even when actually serving us.  At the same time though, no derogatory remarks were made and we were not chucked out of the store.

Conversely, I was out shopping with MissTress in one of our local malls and after I had referred to her as "MissTress" a couple of times the shop assistant starting calling her Mistress too!

I think we should be able to express ourselves (within reason) in public.  Obviously no nudity, and no public beatings ... but it would be nice to be able to be less underground and secretive when out and about.  I know I am obvious sometimes on purpose - just because I get a wicked sense of achievement from shocking the 'nilla's.




nikaa -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 12:13:48 AM)

Problem is this kind of look is not just bdsm lifestyle. I know many who are into goth and alternative lifestyles who wear collars and even leashes.
 
To me it is like imposing your dress code on others because your not comfortable with what they are wearing. If you don't like what someone else is wearing as long as it is legal - either deal with it or look away.
 
Granted business do have the right to refuse service for what ever reason though to do so because they do not like your appearanc is bad business in my opinion.
 
Nika{Phoenix}




GeekFreak -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 12:15:30 AM)

Why do people feel BDSM is expressing themselves, and not being able to take it to public is terrible because people won't let them express themselves. BDSM is only one facet of BDSMers and they are separate people apart from it...so no problem having to stifle that part sometime. We live in a world that has certain expectations and social norms...people don't want others to venture outside these norms in public. If people choose to do so anyhow, they should be be ready to take criticizm that comes their way.




BitaTruble -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 12:16:11 AM)

One needs to be careful when they are in a public venue which has minors present. That's just common sense. Rousting the party rather than just asking them to remove the leashes seems a bit excessive to me, but bottom line, if you don't own the place you're in, then the rules are not yours to make.

Celeste




slaveofdarkhold -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 12:57:09 AM)

Sorry but I'm gonna have to join in here and say the people who got thrown out were out of place. What they were basically doing was playing a sex game- sure they might not have being having sexual contact but they were practicing a form of exhibitionism, showing off their dominance and submission to anyone who happened to pass them by. Now I'm not against them expressing it, but there's a time and a place. There are BDSM clubs if they need to do this, or hell even regular nightclubs where its generally more acceptable to have a higher level of public sexuality. Doing it in a mall is using other people to get themselves off. 'Ooooh look at all those other people who can see us'- the other people become a prop or accessory in their sex game.
I might get some objections to that, about it being a lifestyle not a game, and people needing to express that side of them. But I find it hard to believe it would be discrimination by expecting them to tone it down in a mall. I'd feel the same (and frequently do) about people who stick their tongues down each other's throats in public. Its part of the standards of our society, that we expect people to keep their sexual acts to themselves. If they need to express their Dominance/submission at all times, they could do so subtly- have the sub walk a pace behind,speak when spoken to, not start eating until the dominant has- no one else is affected or even aware but they're not being denied expression of themselves.
At the end of the day, I don't see how expecting them to keep it private is discrimination. They aren't being judged on their gender or skin colour or age, or anything that they can't 'put away' for an hour while they walk round the mall. It's something they chose to do and are not forced into. We're not denying their right to dress and act like this where its approproate. We even have clubs and dungeons where its positively encouraged. We expect children not to run around restaurants making lots of noise. We expect smokers to step outside or into a smoking area in public places. This isn't discrimination. Its acting appropriately for the environment.
Was asking them to leave extreme? Maybe, maybe not. We don't know if they had been asked before to remove them, and we don't know what else they may have been doing during their trip round the mall. Even if they weren't warned or doing anything beyond leading each other around on leashes, I think the company has every right to ask people to leave because of antisocial behaviour.




ServiceNTucson -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 12:57:31 AM)

I have to agree with the general consensus that the public display was out of line.  Although, had I been the mall cop, I would have asked them to cease the display, not leave.  Unless of course, they refused my first request.




Chaingang -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 1:13:30 AM)

I am actually quite circumspect when it comes to public displays of sexual behavior, but there was none of that in your description. Am I correct in that their public display amounted to two women being led along in collars and leads by their Dominant counterparts? To me that's discrimination flat out and the mall should be sued. Fuck, I was dressing like that and doing that back in the late 70s and early 80s. For that to be happening now is psychotic. I would have given those people an email contact point or something like that in the event that they were going to sue.

Philosophically I am not even apposed to public sex, but it's not my political obsession or anything like that.

...

Over at http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=348196 I said this:

I wouldn't even have a problem with that. As long as the activity is not overtly sexual I don't care what people are doing or saying, even if not at a Ren Faire styled event. What's next: gay people not being able to hold hands because that's "eww gross" too?

When the slightly unusual becomes commonplace then no one will care. It's cultural warfare - the more we accept the BS self-imposed restrictions of culture at large, the less right we have to complain for being made its outcasts.




DarkSideOfThMoon -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 1:24:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveofdarkhold

I'd feel the same (and frequently do) about people who stick their tongues down each other's throats in public. Its part of the standards of our society, that we expect people to keep their sexual acts to themselves. If they need to express their Dominance/submission at all times, they could do so subtly- have the sub walk a pace behind,speak when spoken to, not start eating until the dominant has- no one else is affected or even aware but they're not being denied expression of themselves.



I think she makes some very valid points. To be honest I never felt the need to make it that obvious in public. I mean, I like playing in clubs, and Sir showing me off in clubs. But I quite like it being a secret....




MstrFury -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 3:10:16 AM)

nothing to say except...(you knew that was coming)....since there are so many different ticks within this lifestyle....I'd just surmise....this could very well have been a public humilation scene...it's purpose complete...parties depart......time and place may very well have been considered for the full effect....seems as if it worked pretty well to me...got the desired response from the public....now on to the next phase of training and or exibition.....

pulling my cloak around me and stepping back into the shadows




Arpig -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 4:45:21 AM)

Most malls don't allow you to bring a pet in, even on a leash [;)]




Jasmyn -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 4:48:26 AM)

Gawd some of you people are waay to precious.... true, I wouldn't have a problem with doing it or seeing it




feastie -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 4:59:48 AM)

It is entirely possible that you were not aware the complete situation.  It's possible that the group had caused some disturbance elsewhere in the mall before appearing in the food court.  They may have been asked in a prior location to put away the leashes and had given security grief, etc.

That being said, public places where children are present are not appropriate places for BDSM behaviors or any other sexually related activities.  In other words, the kids with their tongues down each other's throats need to be moved along as well.  Not to mention, (and completely off topic), using inappropriate language.

Quick example.  I had taken my young children to a local Dairy Queen for lunch.  Near our table was a young man, 20ish and a couple of young ladies.  The young man's speech was peppered with mild expletives.  I wasn't appreciative of their use in front of my children, but at that point, kept my tongue.  The young man's cell phone rang.  He opened it and began having a conversation.  "Fuck that!" snapped my head around.  I glared at the young man, (who was certainly old enough to know better), and said, "Excuse me!" in a not so friendly and rather loud tone.  He immediately begain apologizing, but it should never have happened.

Same thing...mind what is appropriate.  It's not a statement on your lifestyle to have the "freedom" to go around lead by your leash.  It is a statement that says, "I have no consideration for others."




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 6:08:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
There was 2 Doms... 1 Mistress... 2 female subs... 1 male. Now these Dominants were well dressed... for a mall anyways. As were the submissives.... with this little exception....one of the female and the male subs wore their collars and their owners had them on leashes. The other female slave wore a collar only... but I seen her Owners leash on his belt loop rolled up like one does a whip.

What exactly was their behavior?  I think it would depend on the mall context and what else they were doing.

Yes, I think it sucks.  Yes, I'd enjoy being able to be naked or dressed however I want whereever I want without negative consequences, if only for the choice to BE that way. 

But I don't have enough information on THIS particular case to say whether I would feel it was appropriate or inappropriate.  I'm someone who thinks it can be fine to kneel just about anywhere as long as you aren't in someone's way- quiet, graceful, unobtrusive.




RiotGirl -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 7:20:46 AM)

Personallty i think its retarded to get upset or even kicked out of a place because of it.  Um.. so what.  Must i remind everyone the things the general public and even myself have to put up with? 

When you see a girl in the mall wearing a short so skirt you wonder if you look  hard enough if you can see her vagina?  Her shirt so tight your sure her boobs are going to come flying out? 

When you see stuff like that.. do you walk over and say.  Excuse me, but that is so highly inappropriate for MY VIEWS and i think you should leave.  Does mall security do it? 

When a child is screaming and throwing a tantrum in public.. do you walk over or does anyone walk over and say.  "This is highly inappropriate for MY VIEWS, please leave?

When some disgusting slob comes into the mall.. do you say anything?

You know i think its retarded.  Sex is ALL OVER THE PLACE.  All over!  Do you tell a store that their naked maniquin is exposing your child to something you arent ready to expose them too and could they please cover up?  i've seen these things with nipples!  (hell i've played with the nipples.. grins.. but i was working there)

Good lord.  It is another form of expressing yourself.  Plus Not ALL BDSM related activities is "sexual"  i swear when i kneel or do the laundry i dont get all hot and flustered and need to be ravaged.  Heck i washed Himself's car yesterday.. with oh my gosh.. my neighbors.  i suppose i'm exposing them to my lifestyle.. i mean it is his car.. it was an act of serving.. right?  MUST be sexual! 

What i think people are doing here.. is forcing THEIR VIEWS on others.  What you feel is right or wrong for you (which doesnt make it right or wrong for anyone else) makes it okay to impose it upon others.  What ever happened to tolerance, acceptance?  Tho i suppose its okay to accept your own views and not others?  Oh wait.. lets just be untolerant and unaccepting off ourselves.. yet be so for other people?  Ummmm well....

i suppose i'll do the flip side.  i'll allow my views and not others.. so the next time i see some on in some religous get up i'll tell them they are bothing me and offending me.  heck why not?  Its what you all are doing to your OWN sub culture.

i'm not going to tell you my views or whats right/wrong for me.  Cos its not up for debate.  i know excatly whats okay for me to do and no one is going to tell me whats okay for me.  Cos um well, you've got no right.




fastlane -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 7:29:27 AM)

There is a time and a place for everything......what you described in my opinion, was not the time or place for exhibitionism in the lifestyle.
Something a bit more discreet, in my opinion, would have been acceptable, such as the one Dom who wore the leash on his belt, not on his subs collar at the time.
But hey, that's just me....to each their own, but you must expect the ramifications that come with it.

Leashes and Lashes, Kevin




RiotGirl -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 7:36:03 AM)

Heh - i wish i could wait around to see if what i've said has sunk in to anyones brains or got anyone thinking....

my logic is undefeatable

hmmmm isnt that what the Massive computer said on I, Robot as it was taking over the human race?  <grins>

Um Fastlane.. STOP getting in trouble! Bow down, follow the Rules and OBEY.  heehehehehehe




Proprietrix -> RE: Discrimination in Public Places.... (5/2/2006 7:39:36 AM)

Personally, I think it's rediculous. I agree with damn near everything both chaingang and riotgirl said.
I personally find people with excessive body odor in the mall highly annoying (as well as physically sickening) and would love to have security "protect my children" from them. But hey, if I can't handle what's out there in the world, perhaps I should keep my ass at home.




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