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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/21/2011 4:30:30 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
Previously (and I'm not saying this was necessarily or always a good thing!) people just accepted what doctors told them as gospel. Now, they question everything, and want a doctor to try and condense (say) 20 years of medical university training and clinical experience into a Janet & John summary they can comprehend.


On the subject of doctors spending more time and effort explaining stuff than doing their job, my RSS feed just (as in, just) lobbed this at me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12240093

Note the quote from the doctor concerned, at the end of the piece:

"The concern from those working in emergency care is that medical students are not being trained appropriately to cope in emergencies.

Dr Holden explains: "There's a danger that we are producing doctors who are too technical for our own good. The curriculum is more concerned with the touchy-feely stuff than the knowledge."

"In an emergency you want someone who knows their job, who can work from first principles.""

Interesting piece too.

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/21/2011 4:43:07 PM   
Hippiekinkster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Actually, I'd put it down to keeping the windows open. Much simpler explanation. Cold kills bugs.

And where it doesn't it slows their rate of regeneration and multiplication but yes, seriously, it's a very good point.

I think central heating (lovely as it is in the recent cold weather) is partially to blame - we heat all or most of our houses, whether we're going to be in that room for hours or not. Bugs love that. I live in a lovely old Victorian building which despite being lovely to look at is a proper pig to heat, and I don't have CH, so I heat one main room, then others as I transfer to them. I know older folk need the heat more but I honestly can't sit in my mum's place for long - I have to stand in the garden for a bit - it's like a bloody orchid house!
The reduced humididity also mitigates against microbial reproduction.

"In the USA, an estimated 23 × 106 kg of antibiotics are currently used annually; about half are provided to people and the rest are manufactured for agriculture.8 In hospitals, they are generally administered parenterally, while in the community they are delivered mostly as oral preparations. About 7 × 106 kg of antibiotics, chiefly penicillins and tetracyclines, are used as growth promotants for food animals. Some 45 × 103 kg of antibiotics, namely tetracyclines and streptomycin, are provided as pesticides for agriculture; these are sprayed on to fruit trees in the southern and western USA. While this last amount seems small compared with overall antibiotic use, the geographical spread can be considerable. Some strains of Erwinia amylovora, the bacterial target of these drugs, have become resistant to antibiotics. While the emergence of resistant bacteria in agriculture is a small part of the overall global microbial resistance pool, it is an example of widespread antibiotic use in which the environment of microorganisms is besieged with growth-inhibitory agents. The result is the survival of those organisms that bear transposons and other mechanisms for self-preservation, leaving an environment of microorganisms that are largely resistant."
http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/49/1/25.full

Farther down the article discusses reduced resistance due to another person using antimicrobials in the same household. Second-hand resistance, if you will.

The same article also discusses antibiotic resistance passing from agriculture into the human population. That's why we should not eat factory-farmed protein. Eat vegetable proteins instead, and use high-quality range-fed zero-chemical meats as an occasional treat.

Staph aureus is becoming resistant to vancomycin. This resistant strain was created in India, and medical tourists are spreading it to Europe, the UK and North America. I either had a resistant strain, or my body metabolizes televancin (a vancomycin derivative) too rapidly, as my bloodwork showed lower than therapeutic levels after 24 hours. I was switched to Cubicin for the gram negatives and Invanz dor the gram positives. I've finished the therapy, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed. But the vancomycin, which is what we first tried, was not working, according to the CRP and Sed-rate tests.

That's a scary article, and resistance is some scary shit. But I'm alive, and I still have my foot.

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/21/2011 4:47:41 PM   
RapierFugue


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
That's a scary article, and resistance is some scary shit.


Kinell, you're not kidding!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
But I'm alive, and I still have my foot.


Thanks for posting that, I'll have a read through tomorrow.

Hope you continue to do well and heal fast.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/21/2011 5:13:23 PM   
CynthiaWVirginia


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From: West Virginia, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

FR

Cynthy, I am really sorry about your situation. I live way differently though.

T^T


Heya Termy...I'm not funny about regular germs, just the nasty ones from people.  I pet my cats and will eat a sandwitch <gasp> bare handed, unwashed, and unsanitized.  Ditto goes for eating sandwitches and other food while breaking up worms for baiting fish hooks.  There are germs, and GERMS, lol.

Termy, I am really just responding to this thread, but your post was a fun jumping off point.

Viruses I can kick off easily, but bronchitis and ear infections like to stay for 2-4 months.  I have had to go through 4 different types of antibiotics...taking every last one exactly as ordered.  I usually give it a month before going to the doctor, unless it makes asthma flare up so that I have a very hard time breathing.  The last time I went to a doctor was March 2009, when I shattered my lower right leg and had to get steel plates and screws.

I was always sick when my kid was in public school.  He started in special ed. at 13 months, and when I went to help out...what can I say?  There was always at least one kid with masses of green snot coming out of their nose.  Hands rubbing nasty noses and then touching every blessed thing...gaaah.  Later, the toddlers were taught to use toothbrushes...the kids played musical chairs with toothbrushes by slipping their own toothbrush into other kids' mouths, rubbing them on the floor, on walls, in the toilet bowl...then the teacher took one tube of toothpaste and rubbed it against every toothbrush...    As well as uber ucky germs I dealt with as a momma, there were pin worms and lice...

I have taken care of friends and family who were spewing from both ends...without gloves even, when it's been necessary...without batting an eye.  Spit happens.  What grosses me out is going to church and having all those people who coughed into their hands, those who used toilets without washing their hands afterward with soap and warm water...expecting to shake my hand.  Blech, all that artificial closeness from dozens of people... 

I am evil now...when someone rams out a hand to me for shaking...I tell them they don't really want to shake my hand...because that's how warts are spread.

Someone mentioned their body being off whack for years after being on antibiotics...my body is fine after I've spent a week or two afterward having yogurt each day.  

Mmm, I smell fried apples and cinnamon waiting for me downstairs...bye all. 

(Termy, about that battery thing on my computer...it's hiding in plain sight and will probably have to bite me before I figure out where it is...you don't happen to have a picture of it somewhere, do you?)

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/21/2011 5:18:58 PM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CynthiaWVirginia
Viruses I can kick off easily, but bronchitis and ear infections like to stay for 2-4 months.  I have had to go through 4 different types of antibiotics...taking every last one exactly as ordered. 


Out of interest, did they give course after course, or did they swab & culture after the first one didn't work?

(in reply to CynthiaWVirginia)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/21/2011 6:38:42 PM   
pahunkboy


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So they contaminate the food supply with this shit?

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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 4:42:04 AM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue
Previously (and I'm not saying this was necessarily or always a good thing!) people just accepted what doctors told them as gospel. Now, they question everything, and want a doctor to try and condense (say) 20 years of medical university training and clinical experience into a Janet & John summary they can comprehend.


On the subject of doctors spending more time and effort explaining stuff than doing their job, my RSS feed just (as in, just) lobbed this at me:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12240093

Note the quote from the doctor concerned, at the end of the piece:

"The concern from those working in emergency care is that medical students are not being trained appropriately to cope in emergencies.

Dr Holden explains: "There's a danger that we are producing doctors who are too technical for our own good. The curriculum is more concerned with the touchy-feely stuff than the knowledge."

"In an emergency you want someone who knows their job, who can work from first principles.""

Interesting piece too.

A very interesting piece, and a worrying notion as well.
I don't think it's a new argument, though: if memory serves the Doctor who used to have a column in the Observer around the turn of the '90s was arguing the same point about huge chunks of medical school training being redundant, and what was really needed was the ability to recognise, and know how to treat immediate problems. I think his argument was that there was no real need for a lot of the other stuff, but it could be learned later when somebody decided to specialise.

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 6:24:13 AM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
A very interesting piece, and a worrying notion as well.
I don't think it's a new argument, though: if memory serves the Doctor who used to have a column in the Observer around the turn of the '90s was arguing the same point about huge chunks of medical school training being redundant, and what was really needed was the ability to recognise, and know how to treat immediate problems. I think his argument was that there was no real need for a lot of the other stuff, but it could be learned later when somebody decided to specialise.

Clinical education is as prone to debates over methods as conventional education is – more so upon occasion. What's interesting to me is that what seemed like a really “good” thing at first glance, i.e. the de-deification of doctors as a profession, appears to have had several downsides. A sizeable chunk of medical school time is now being spent on teaching doctors to interact with patients, rather than concentrating on the actual clinical and diagnostic skills. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, because some old-time doctors were shockingly bad at dealing with other human beings*, but it is interesting to me that what seems like a universally “good” thing ends up having less than positive outcomes. It’s one of the fascinations with Healthcare and clinical work in general – you push here, it bulges out there, often where you least expect it.

And time is increasingly now being spent (you might say “wasted”, I couldn't possibly comment) in bracing doctors (especially surgeons) for the inevitable intervention of the legal profession in their work. Again, is it a bad thing that patients seek recompense from poor doctors or outcomes? No, of course it isn't. But the knock-on effect of this is that there's more (and the amount increases annually) time being spent on educating doctors on damage-limitation than ever before.

I was speaking to a very well respected cardiac surgeon a few years back. His point, and I don't necessarily agree with all of it, was that human beings and their ailments are so varied that some form of disaster is always inevitable if one treats a large enough number of patients, therefore doctors should be insulated from the process of having to explain their actions, other than to other clinical professionals; in other words, in the UK, the GMC or whoever should seek out and strike off poor surgeons, rather than what increasingly happens, which is that a Trust gets sued by a patient and only takes meaningful action against the doctor once that suit is lost; the court is the real arbiter of quality in that instance, not the clinical professionals or their governing body. He was also vehement in his dislike for the GMC as a body, describing them as a bunch of paper tigers. As I say I didn't agree with all of it, but it’s an interesting point.

*any excuse to play this – an absolute classic - enjoy :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVWjAeAa52o

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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 7:04:19 AM   
pahunkboy


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I feel for DRs-  they contribute so much to society.  We need them.   

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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 7:53:40 AM   
Moonhead


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Even the ones who are masons?

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 8:12:41 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Even the ones who are masons?


Drs contribute to society.   Unlike financiers.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 9:30:31 AM   
Moonhead


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But lots of Doctors are masons. And masons are evil. They're the Queen's bitches in the monarchical conspiracy. Haven't you seen From Hell?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 9:39:11 AM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Haven't you seen From Hell?

Love that film. Depp's good, but Coltraine is just superb ... such an expressive face. The "lived-in" look, one might say* :)

*"the years have been kind to Robbie ... the weekends, however ..."

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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 1:57:15 PM   
kalikshama


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When I was in the USAF, flu shots were mandatory. The only times I've puked from the flu was not long after getting a flu shot. Haven't had one since.

My health insurance is with the VA and every time I go I have to turn down the shot or a procedure.

Vitamin C works for me. I didn't get sick this year when everyone in the office was. We're in South Florida, and didn't need to turn on the heat in our well-insulated office. It was pretty cold in our house, 58 degrees F, but my housemate and I decided to try to not use the heat this winter, because last winter it was costly and ineffective (her reason) and noisy, smelly, and dries out my sinuses (my reason).

I lean towards Linus Pauling, two time Nobel Prize winner, on Vitamin C, rather than Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch

Dr. Stephen Barrett of Quackwatch Exposed In Court Cases

At trial, under a heated cross-examination by Negrete, Barrett
conceded that he was not a Medical Board Certified psychiatrist
because he had failed the certification exam.

This was a major revelation since Barrett had provided supposed expert
testimony as a psychiatrist and had testified in numerous court cases.
Barrett also had said that he was a legal expert even though he had no
formal legal training.

The most damning testimony before the jury, under the intense
cross-examination by Negrete, was that Barrett had filed similar
defamation lawsuits against almost 40 people across the country within
the past few years and had not won one single one at trial.

During the course of his examination, Barrett also had to concede his
ties to the AMA, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Food & Drug
Administration (FDA).



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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 2:02:50 PM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

When I was in the USAF, flu shots were mandatory. The only times I've puked from the flu was not long after getting a flu shot. Haven't had one since.

My health insurance is with the VA and every time I go I have to turn down the shot or a procedure.


As I've previously stated, current clinical advice says you shouldn't have a flu shot as a matter of course, but only if you're in an "at risk" group.

That's in the UK - I take it it's different in the US, and people have them as a matter of routine, every autumn/fall?

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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 2:09:51 PM   
kalikshama


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Americans are terrorized into stampeding to flu shots like lemmings.

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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 2:15:21 PM   
FukinTroll


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

Americans are terrorized into stampeding to flu shots like lemmings.


I'll take my chances without, always have. As previously stated, somewhere, I have a quota of debauchery to meet before I can die and the universe will keep me around till that quota is met.


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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 2:18:58 PM   
RapierFugue


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From: London, England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama
Americans are terrorized into stampeding to flu shots like lemmings.


Really? Interesting. There's been more and more pressure on GPs here from patients the last few years to give them.

I don't know if the US and UK vaccination policies are similar though; the UK flu shot is collated by the National ICB (Infection Control Board) every September, and is usually (but not always) strains of the 3 flus thought most likely (i.e. for which the figures have leapt the most) in the previous couple of months. IIRC there are 10 primary strains of Flu Type A (but 2 are amazingly rare), and 1 of Type B (but you can't do anything about B? IIRC?). C (again IIRC!) doesn't trouble humans much, apart from kids, mildly.

So in the UK your flu shot is a bit of a crap shoot - if a new strain appears as late as August/Early September, it's effectively "missed the boat", and won't have been included in the "top 3" for immunisation that Autumn.


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RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 2:32:42 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Haven't you seen From Hell?

Love that film. Depp's good, but Coltraine is just superb ... such an expressive face. The "lived-in" look, one might say* :)

*"the years have been kind to Robbie ... the weekends, however ..."


The comic is a lot better (for a start, Moore sticks to fitting his story into the gaps between what's known, and doesn't paste up Abberline and Lees into a single pouty bohemian caricature), but the odds are against medication boy having read that one, aren't they?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: How are you staying cold free? bug free? - 1/22/2011 2:33:14 PM   
kalikshama


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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

There's been more and more pressure on GPs here from patients the last few years to give them.


I prefer my magic bullets to be free of formaldehyde and thimerosal.

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Profile   Post #: 100
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