RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 3:50:54 PM)

The highest i have seen, per Rasmussen, is 60%... the rest never came close.




tazzygirl -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 3:53:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Only one reason is needed...its horrible!


Says the man who works in a claim department at an insurance company.




Hippiekinkster -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 3:59:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio

it's the libtard democrat way. "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." Out of pelosi's own botox lips. Why anybody would support them after that is beyond me. That's why I don't waste much energy arguing with libtards. They should just keep running their mouths and we should just publicize it every time they do. 2012 shall be glorious!
And she was absolutely correct. You, and your ilk, just don't seem to be able to figure out why




tazzygirl -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 4:08:52 PM)

Seems he cant remember history.

Between 1980 and 2009, 17 of 23 reconciliation bills have been signed into law by Republican presidents (a Republican was president for 20 of those 29 years). Since 1980, reconciliation has been used nine times when Republicans controlled both the House and the Senate, six times when Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate, one time when the Democrats controlled the Senate and the Republicans the House, and seven times when the Republicans controlled the Senate and the Democrats controlled the House. Reconciliation has been used at least once nominally for a non-budgetary purpose (for example, see the College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007, when a Republican was president and the Democrats controlled Congress). The 1986 Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA) contained some health care provisions.

The Byrd Rule (as described below) was adopted in 1985 and amended in 1990. Its main effect has been to prohibit the use of reconciliation for provisions that would increase the deficit beyond 10 years after the reconciliation measure.

In 1997 Congress passed the Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 which was a reconciliation bill that reduced taxes and hence increased the deficit, but was paired with the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 (H.R. 2014 and H.R. 2015 respectively), each signed by President Clinton. In 1999, the Congress for the first time used reconciliation to pass legislation that would increase deficits without a companion bill that reduced spending (and ignoring the bill from 1975): the Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act 1999. This act was passed when the Government was expected to run large surpluses: it was subsequently vetoed by President Bill Clinton. A similar situation happened in 2000, when the Senate again used reconciliation to pass the Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act 2000, which was also vetoed by Clinton. At the time the use of the reconciliation procedure to pass such bills was controversial.[5]

During the administration of President George W. Bush, Congress used reconciliation to enact three major tax cuts.[6] These tax cuts were set to lapse after 10 years to satisfy the Byrd Rule.

The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (H.R. 4872) is a reconciliation bill passed by the 111th United States Congress to make changes to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. It was signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 30, 2010.

Reconciliation bills have included:

Omnibus Reconciliation Act of 1980, Pub.L. 96-499 (1980)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1981, Pub.L. 97-35 (1981)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1982, Pub.L. 97-253 (1982)
Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 (TEFRA), Pub.L. 97-248 (1982)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1983, Pub.L. 98-270 (1984)
Deficit Reduction Act of 1984 (DEFRA), Pub.L. 98-369 (1984)
Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985 (COBRA), Pub.L. 99-272 (1986)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986, Pub.L. 99-509 (1986)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1987, Pub.L. 100-203 (1987)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1989, Pub.L. 101-239 (1989)
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990, Pub.L. 101-508 (1990).
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, Pub.L. 103-66 (1993).
Balanced Budget Act of 1995, H.R. 2491 (vetoed December 6, 1995)
Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, Pub.L. 104-193 (1996)
Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-33 (1997)
Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997, Pub.L. 105-34 (1997)
Taxpayer Refund and Relief Act of 1999, H.R. 2488 (vetoed September 23, 1999)
Marriage Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2000, H.R. 4810 (vetoed August 5, 2000)
Economic Growth and Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2001 (EGTRRA), Pub.L. 107-16 (2001)
Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003, Pub.L. 108-27 (2003)
Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-171 (2006)
Tax Increase Prevention and Reconciliation Act of 2005 (TIPRA), Pub.L. 109-222 (2006)
College Cost Reduction and Access Act of 2007, Pub.L. 110-84 (2007)
Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010, Pub.L. 111-152 (2010)
[7]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

Interesting how the Republicans all knew what was in each law before the bills were reconciled... but only when it was a law signed by someone other than Obama.




tazzygirl -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 4:11:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio

it's the libtard democrat way. "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." Out of pelosi's own botox lips. Why anybody would support them after that is beyond me. That's why I don't waste much energy arguing with libtards. They should just keep running their mouths and we should just publicize it every time they do. 2012 shall be glorious!


Yes, 2012 will be... just not for the GOP who is in need of money badly.




Politesub53 -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 4:52:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Only one reason is needed...its horrible!


Says the man who works in a claim department at an insurance company.


Ironic, given his own dodgy claims.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 9:22:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Only one reason is needed...its horrible!


Says the man who works in a claim department at an insurance company.


Never worked for an insurance company in my life.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 9:23:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Only one reason is needed...its horrible!


Says the man who works in a claim department at an insurance company.


Ironic, given his own dodgy claims.


Not ironic...she doesnt know what shes talking about or is lying, again.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 9:24:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio

it's the libtard democrat way. "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." Out of pelosi's own botox lips. Why anybody would support them after that is beyond me. That's why I don't waste much energy arguing with libtards. They should just keep running their mouths and we should just publicize it every time they do. 2012 shall be glorious!


Yes, 2012 will be... just not for the GOP who is in need of money badly.

Any time you want to wager on who controls both the House and Senate after 2012, let me know. I'll even give you the split side.




tazzygirl -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 10:18:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Only one reason is needed...its horrible!


Says the man who works in a claim department at an insurance company.


Never worked for an insurance company in my life.


Ah, then you are a liar. As witnessed by many on these boards.

quote:

My experience in the field was as a health care consultant and claims auditor.


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3508930




willbeurdaddy -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/21/2011 11:34:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Only one reason is needed...its horrible!


Says the man who works in a claim department at an insurance company.


Never worked for an insurance company in my life.


Ah, then you are a liar. As witnessed by many on these boards.

quote:

My experience in the field was as a health care consultant and claims auditor.


http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3508930


And where exactly do you see anything about an insurance company? I ran a claims audit practice for a HEALTH CARE CONSULTANT. You also apparently dont understand tense.

"WAS" means in the past. "WORKS" means in the present.

So we'll accept in this case that you are just dumb, not a liar. You're proud of that I guess.




tazzygirl -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 12:04:47 AM)

And you were... according to you, its past tense... making life and death decisions based upon the best interests of your clients... who were not the insured. Profit margin.. and not life... is the bottom line in your profession. At least insurance companies dont deny that fact.





rulemylife -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 12:54:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio

it's the libtard democrat way. "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." Out of pelosi's own botox lips. Why anybody would support them after that is beyond me. That's why I don't waste much energy arguing with libtards. They should just keep running their mouths and we should just publicize it every time they do. 2012 shall be glorious!


It would be glorious if you stop creating new profiles.




Moonhead -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 4:56:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: ElSabio

it's the libtard democrat way. "you have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." Out of pelosi's own botox lips. Why anybody would support them after that is beyond me. That's why I don't waste much energy arguing with libtards. They should just keep running their mouths and we should just publicize it every time they do. 2012 shall be glorious!


It would be glorious if you stop creating new profiles.


How is it going to be possible to stop him? We can't cut his fingers off to stop him using the computer as we don't know where he lives.




Cato84 -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 6:47:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

If I recall from several polls from different new sources, generally had the same reaction. Most Americans (62-74%) dont like the ACA. But not because it is a waste of funds, or 'socialized medicine'; but because the bill did not go far enough in addressing the problems most Americans are experiencing with their level of care. The grand majority often state, when asked, that the ACA was a good start, and helps the immediate problems. Many would be for a 'goverment option' that gives a baseline, so as no US Citizens 'fall through the cracks and forgotten'.

BTW, there is no such thing as 'Obamacare' on the law books. There is however the Affordable Care Act (ACA) past in the spring of 2010.

Most Americans likewise, hold the impression that Republicans would not improve conditions with the health care debate, but rather, make it much worst. Their followers likewise, really do not used facts in making their case or arguement. But rather, employ fantasy and scare tactics, to create something out of nothing, to get people to side with them. Why should we repeal health care, which now makes it easier for Americans to gain health care benefits, without being at the mercy of the insurance companies? Small Businesses want more health care reform, not less, as they are most at risk for illness/injury.

1,968 reasons to repeal? How about 30,000,000+ who now can get decent health care, with pre-existing conditions? If its numbers is your sole reasoning, which is higher: 1968 or 30 million?


The person who stated the 70% number was beyond ridiculous I'll admit, but your statement here is just as false. I have yet to see any poll where the number of people who like obamacare as it is now and those who want it to go further reach a majority. The polls I see do actually give a slight edge to what I'll call right now "my side" which is for repeal of most or all of the bill.

This most recent CNN poll shows that 34% of respondents oppose most of the bill and 16% oppose all, adding up to half of the people polled. "The other side", the favor most and favor all people, add up to only 45%. 5% had no opinion. If you can show me some actual data that supports your claim, I'd be interested in taking a look.

As to your statement on the 30 million people with pre existing conditions now being allowed access, you may have been being sarcastic, but that is a wildly dramatic over statement of the facts. Over at the Cato Institute, Michael Cannon notes that an HHS survey in 2001 found that only 1% of Americans had ever been denied coverage.  A report from the early 1990s by the Agency for Health Care Policy and Research yielded a similar finding.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 9:01:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cato84

This most recent CNN poll shows that 34% of respondents oppose most of the bill and 16% oppose all, adding up to half of the people polled. "The other side", the favor most and favor all people, add up to only 45%. 5% had no opinion. If you can show me some actual data that supports your claim, I'd be interested in taking a look.



The like it "as is" is a dismal 14%.

Reid is obviously afraid that repeal could pass in the Senate.




mnottertail -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 9:07:44 AM)

obviously, he is not going to waste his time with that bullshit, since it would be immediately vetoed if it did pass a repeal in the senate (which it wouldn't).

you should read up on that, you obviously don't know what obviously means.




Moonhead -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 9:24:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
The like it "as is" is a dismal 14%.

Got a source for that, or is it another figure you've invented?




tazzygirl -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 10:50:09 AM)

quote:

I have yet to see any poll where the number of people who like obamacare as it is now and those who want it to go further reach a majority.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

There have been a few in the "For" column. Cant see what you dont wish to find.




Cato84 -> RE: 1,968 Reasons to Repeal Obamacare (1/22/2011 11:33:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I have yet to see any poll where the number of people who like obamacare as it is now and those who want it to go further reach a majority.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/obama_and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html

There have been a few in the "For" column. Cant see what you dont wish to find.


With the risk of being new on these boards and the commonality of some people just wanting to be a dick on the internet, I want to state right up front that I in now way intend to insult. I am interested in a serious conversation.

Checking your link there, RCP has tabulated all the polls from major opinion research centers following this issue, and it looks like one released this past Thursday supports your claim. Heretofore it has been six months and what looks like some fifty odd polls since one has returned results in your favor. Even then they were very rare in comparison to polls resulting in the majority against. If when you said there were "a few in the for column" you were acknowledging that the overwhelming majority of them were not but there were a couple, then ok, you are right.

If you want to try to defend obamacare based on its merits, that would be a discussion I am willing to partake in. If you want to try to convince me, or anyone else for that matter, that more people in this country want it than don't, you don't have a leg to stand on.




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