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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 11:39:50 AM   
Cato84


Posts: 33
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		That's no ok with me Tazzy. I agree, we should stop forcing our hospitals to treat the uninsured.

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 11:44:09 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

....... individual mandate. I'd call it a drastic overreach of Federal authority into the lives of the People....................




Agreed!

To my way of thinking, it's proof that the insurance/big industry lobbies hijacked and mangled the bill for their benefit!

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 11:51:34 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		When this debate was going on, I posted a story showing how health care lobbyists were writing what the Congress people on both sides were saying on the floor (i.e., the same people were writing the Dem and Repub positions).

No one here blinked. The conversation died immediately.

If it's not talking points, no discussion.

That's the problem.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/23/2011 11:55:08 AM >

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 11:56:00 AM   
Cato84


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

....... individual mandate. I'd call it a drastic overreach of Federal authority into the lives of the People....................




Agreed!

To my way of thinking, it's proof that the insurance/big industry lobbies hijacked and mangled the bill for their benefit!


I understand this view and share the sentiment, but it's also easy to see why some in positions of power wanted this provision just to force the sharing of costs with a portion of the population who wouldn't draw the associated benefits. This actually, as you probably already know, isn't the first time someone suggested a federal individual mandate to help reduce costs in this country. It was actually the centerpiece of Lincoln Chafee's response to Hilarycare in the early nineties. The question they just continue to avoid is "Is it right to force people to buy into this program?" My personal answer is, no.

< Message edited by Cato84 -- 1/23/2011 11:57:29 AM >

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 11:57:50 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		The issue, however, is simply semantics and politics.

Passing a tax would do the same thing, is unquestionably legal, and not paying your taxes is already a criminal expense.

No essential difference save for the sound bites.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/23/2011 11:58:26 AM >

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 12:03:05 PM   
Cato84


Posts: 33
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		Well, the difference here is a little more than semantical. In its current form it IS a tax. It's just a tax that is levied if you dont perform a requirement. The requirement here is purchasing health insurance.

If it were simply a blanket tax to all in order to provide governmental universal health coverage the logistical ramifications would be different than this situation.

But I guess you're right, you could just call it a tax.

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 1:32:08 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Oh just things   like santuary cities where criminals are allowed by conspirators to stay untouched.  Or Those that support criminalizing the lack of healthcare.  Shit like that

The HCR law does not criminalize lack of health care. You need to stop making shit up and you need to get over your dislike of brown people.



DomKen,....."brown people?"

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 2:24:35 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


DomKen,....."brown people?"



I do believe D-Ken is calling Ken-D a racist, Popeye. Pretty uncivil of him, wouldn't you say? And using a pussy way to do it as well.



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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 2:42:31 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


DomKen,....."brown people?"



I do believe D-Ken is calling Ken-D a racist, Popeye. Pretty uncivil of him, wouldn't you say? And using a pussy way to do it as well.




Heretic, I strongly suspect that the term, "Brown People" is a euphemism for "Illegal Alien."
I don't care if they're "Brown People", "Black People", "Green People" or "Orange People", if they're in the country illegally they need to be "Deported People."
It's like that lame saying, "the ones that are already here", the ones that are already here are the ones in violation of our laws!

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 2:43:53 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I'm having a hard time understanding how 'Obamacare' and 'santuary cities' are considered in the same train of thought? This thread is just another conservative 'babble-fest' of nonsense and silly conspiracies that don't logically add up.

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 2:58:27 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Popeye, as you have yourself pointed out on a few occasions, illegal immigrants come in all colors. By specifying "brown," the accusation became one of racism.

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 3:07:43 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I said prostitution is exempted from this discussion


Well that sucks.

Sure would be a lot more fun to talk about than whatever we are discussing here, which I still haven't figured out.

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 6:19:21 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Popeye, as you have yourself pointed out on a few occasions, illegal immigrants come in all colors.


Yep. For example, Colorado's most famous illegal immigrant, Trygve Bauge, is from Norway.  http://www.legendsofamerica.com/co-frozendeadguy.html

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 1/23/2011 6:21:34 PM >

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 7:29:46 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Popeye, as you have yourself pointed out on a few occasions, illegal immigrants come in all colors.


Yep. For example, Colorado's most famous illegal immigrant, Trygve Bauge, is from Norway.  http://www.legendsofamerica.com/co-frozendeadguy.html


What a hilarious story, DS!


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 7:35:14 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		Doesn't "creating criminals" sound more like some graphic artists sitting around a room, thinking up and sketching characters like the Riddler, Lex Luther, the Sandman, the Grinch....

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/23/2011 8:27:27 PM   
Edwynn


Posts: 4105
Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

When this debate was going on, I posted a story showing how health care lobbyists were writing what the Congress people on both sides were saying on the floor (i.e., the same people were writing the Dem and Repub positions).

No one here blinked. The conversation died immediately.

If it's not talking points, no discussion.

That's the problem.





As what happened when links were posted concerning Monsanto's boy Michael Taylor essentially writing the S. 501 and H.R. 2749 bills, or the financial industry having their way via the Banking Modernization Act and Commodity Futures Modernization Act, followed by successfully repressing all states from passing anti-fraud sub-prime loan abuse acts, followed by their even more hands-on writing of the financial reform law that punishes small banks that had nothing to do with any of the aforementioned or the concomitant meltdown, etc. No different in nature than what has always been, but it certainly has become incredibly blatant these last 20 years or so, coinciding with media's loss of what little independence they had by way of mergers and corporate acquisitions.

But ...


What has any of that got to do with Sarah Palin?

Having to confront how our laws are actually written and realizing that the whole D/R-media show is just a sham makes people feel powerless.


Conjuring up ever more puerile designations and misspellings of the president's name or carping on what Glenn Beck said or starting yet another thread on Sarah Palin (at least one a week here) evidently makes people feel somewhat less impotent.


Pitiful.



     

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 7:17:16 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Tazzy, I have no problem with making prostitution legal.   but that requires a law change in most places.   Till then, it is still a crime.





Hell no.   A crime is a crime is a crime.   In our play we are law breakers and usually wind up paying a price if we get caught.   However, we do so knowingly and are willing to accept those consequences.   Fortunately it falls under one of those crimes not really enforced.

I said prostitution is exempted from this discussion.

What I am talking about is the stolen services from hospitals and physicians across the country. No ER that takes federal money is spared. People walk in, take the service, dont pay, and walk away without a worry.

And this is ok with you?

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 7:19:46 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Hell no. A crime is a crime is a crime. In our play we are law breakers and usually wind up paying a price if we get caught. However, we do so knowingly and are willing to accept those consequences. Fortunately it falls under one of those crimes not really enforced.


That too is changing with hospitals going to credit services.

Would it be ok with you for a hospital (more specifically and ER) to turn you away simply because you cannot afford the care?

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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 7:27:08 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Yep. For example, Colorado's most famous illegal immigrant, Trygve Bauge, is from Norway. 


For you non scandihoovians, that name is pronounced:

TRIG-vee   BOW-gie.

kann du pa grieppa?

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 7:27:52 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		As i explained before.   This thread isn't about obamacare or illegal aliens.   it is about shielding and creating criminals.   A santuary city is shielding an illegal alien because they refuse to enforce the law.  ICE doesn't go looking for illegal aliens and in fact tries to stop other law enforcement agencies from doing it.  Obamacare made 50,000,000 people (estimated uninsured peoples that I saw someplace but that isn't important) criminals because they don't have insurance.   My son pay $9.95 an hour worked for medical care thru his union which was happy that this happened.   I believe based upon what he has said about what happened in the general membership meetings, that his union is considering disbanding health care now and turning it over to the individual.   It would probably be cheaper, but that isn't the point.

The point is the again the shielding and creation of criminals.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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