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RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 7:50:17 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Im confused. Creating criminals by insisting they have insurance to pay hospitals for their health care... and offering many of them that insurance for free... many others reduced... is creating criminals?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 8:06:40 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		yeah tazzy   it is the requirement to have it that creates the criminal for those that don't have it.   Their opinion doesn't count.  Their status in the world doesn't count.   Their religious preferences don't count.  there is no opt out.   But failure to get it, is a part of the tax code now, enforceable as any other tax violation.   Criminalization.  

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 8:14:41 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		I think you are missing the bigger point.

Many will have it paid for.

Some will have the amount reduced.

Others finally have access to insurance they were previously denied.

Many of these people show up at the ER without insurance or any ability to pay. Criminal.

That criminal act costs each family an extra 1000 a year. Like having money taken out of your pocket? Criminal.

I would have worded it differently.

There was a time when people were denied emergency treatments and shipped to county hospitals instead, often dying in route. Shall we return to those days?

Imagine the outrage!

But that is where we are heading.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 8:21:01 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		You could be heading a lot further back than that, sadly. Victorian charity hospitals spring to mind whenever one of the more libertarian elements in here starts to blather about how they shouldn't be paying for the underclass through taxes when there's plenty of rich idiots who are happy to give money to the needy...

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 8:21:06 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

[sigh] Now I know what the other 999,999 monkeys were typing.


Quality :)

Although, strictly speaking, it can't be named as a number, because the original phrase is "an infinite number of monkeys", not a million, but I'm overlooking that coz you made me guffaw. A lot.

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 8:22:20 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Even those who aren't American citizens?


Especially those who aren't American citizens,  


<proud>

;)

(in reply to flcouple2009)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 8:44:11 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		lack of insurance does not entitle one to medical care.   Well it does cause we the people have mandated it, but it really doesn't.   Is a social ill for sure, but creating criminals?   come on.   Why do we want to do that?   

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 8:48:25 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

lack of insurance does not entitle one to medical care.


So we allow people to die because they have no medical insurance. And who proves you do or do not have it when you are in an emergency situation?

Would you approve a hospital making a patient suffering from a heart attack wait while billing comfirms your ability to pay?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 9:07:16 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		It'd lead to one hell of a lawsuit if somebody who did have medical insurance died of that, wouldn't it?

< Message edited by Moonhead -- 1/24/2011 9:09:51 AM >

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 9:15:25 AM   
RapierFugue


Posts: 4740
Joined: 3/16/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Why do we want to do that?   


It's the people the healthcare industry rips off that I feel most sorry for ... people who pay for clinical treatments and then don't get what they paid for.

Take yourself, for example. You went in for that brain transplant in good faith, thinking it would make a difference. But they've cheated you - bunged in a chimp's 50cc thought-bucket instead, and now you’re saddled with it for life. Others are able to grasp simple concepts, feeling the warm glow of their neurons firing as they think about things, learning from others and maybe even changing their minds from time to time, as the result of discourse, debate and education. Meanwhile, you’re pulled over and broken down on the metaphorical hard shoulder of thought, gazing dully at the steam wafting from under your cranial hood as you read something just the once, form an incorrect assumption, and then lurch ever onwards, clutching it to you like a tramp with a tin of spaghetti.

It’s a bloody disgrace, and wants sorting, soonest*.

*the healthcare industry rip-offs I mean – there’s fuck all left to be done for your sort, bar breaking out a 9 mil hollow point and showing Old Yeller the woods one last time ...

WALKIES!

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 9:18:05 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Extremely huge.

Problem is... this is life and death. Not money.. not control... not something that can wait.

What gets me about all this is simple... it costs to treat... it costs not to treat. Which is cheaper?

Who doesnt want health care?

Who doesnt expect to go to an ER and get treatment for a life threatening condition?

Who expects to work for nothing?

Who doesnt get paid when a patient with no money shows up at a hospital with no insurance?

An article from the New Republic states it quite well...

There are obviously some people who don't have health insurance and, furthermore, don't want to have health insurance. They'd rather take their chances and pay out of pocket. But I think that's an awfully small group of people and, quite honestly, I don't think they have the right to make that choice--unless they feel like relinquishing their right, under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), to stabilizing or life-saving care in case of an emergency. This is the essence of the constitutional case for the mandate.

http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-cohn/78522/individual-mandate-penalty-why-oppose

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 9:19:47 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Why do we want to do that?   


It's the people the healthcare industry rips off that I feel most sorry for ... people who pay for clinical treatments and then don't get what they paid for.

Take yourself, for example. You went in for that brain transplant in good faith, thinking it would make a difference. But they've cheated you - bunged in a chimp's 50cc thought-bucket instead, and now you’re saddled with it for life. Others are able to grasp simple concepts, feeling the warm glow of their neurons firing as they think about things, learning from others and maybe even changing their minds from time to time, as the result of discourse, debate and education. Meanwhile, you’re pulled over and broken down on the metaphorical hard shoulder of thought, gazing dully at the steam wafting from under your cranial hood as you read something just the once, form an incorrect assumption, and then lurch ever onwards, clutching it to you like a tramp with a tin of spaghetti.

It’s a bloody disgrace, and wants sorting, soonest*.

*the healthcare industry rip-offs I mean – there’s fuck all left to be done for your sort, bar breaking out a 9 mil hollow point and showing Old Yeller the woods one last time ...

WALKIES!


Seriously, wouldn't the person die from organ rejection because of the blood not being compatible?

Isn't that a massive transplant problem anyways. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to RapierFugue)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 9:25:02 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		They have immunosuppressants for that.
Otherwise anybody who had a transplant would be dead in six months, not just George Best...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 11:54:23 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Tazzy   I haven't said the system wasn't broke and in need of repair.   What I object to is the criminalization.   I have been real clear and consistant about that.  

Oh and I and the majority of people I know carry their insurance ID with them all the time.   I also carry my personal and family medical history and script list (something that I suggest everyone do) when I travel.   It is prominently displayed just inside the door of the house, fully marked with photocopies of my insurance information in nice pretty color, and the door has an indicator on it.   I took the viale for life and expanded on it some   (wasn't enough paper to cover me the way I wanted to be covered).   It is an orange sign with a black V in it.   Posted on my vehicle windows and front door and my binder and one on the fridge with a copy of everything in there just in case of fire.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 10:24:13 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Criminalization... isnt jail time part of criminalization?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Creating Criminals - 1/24/2011 10:42:01 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

So I was sitting here pondering about the creation of criminals thru obamacare


What in God's name are you talking about?


Yeppers. I was asking myself that too. The only potential answer I could come up with was that 'Obamacare' creates medifraud. Which I felt was drawing a very long bow indeed - like arguing car manufacture creates drunk drivers. So that couldn't be right could it ?


another question that is WAY more important that people should be asking themselves is how ohaha care can reduce debt.

He was correct about that btw.

The question becomes how can it reduce the debt?

and trust me it is for the purpose of corporate fraud in unprecedented degrees for the next round of ripoff.

"just like the last round of rip off!"   dont take your eyes off that ball now of tha tbig ole red white and bwu dick is gonna go straight up your_________ again!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 56
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