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RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 5:18:29 AM   
DomYngBlk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

DYB, you doubt that eh? Silly me, only black people are ....."allowed" into the "hood" right? Ever been to Atlana, Ga or Charlotte, N.C.?
While we're on stereotypes how about a few weeks ago when the congresswoman was shot and one of the shooters friends described him as a* "pot smoking leftist?"*
That got buried pretty quick didn't it? For whatever reason the media decided to give it, "a good leaving alone!"
I wonder if he owned... "camos?"


Free country can go anywhere you want pops...but you? Naw......I don't think so. Maybe along the Expressway but something tells me you speed up.....If he had been a pot smoking leftist he wouldn't have been up that early in the day to start off and number two if he had been up he'd been sitting on his couch with a bag of doritos......Naw, that one is straight up timothy mcveigh nutty right wing ronald reagan lovin patriot act devotee.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 5:58:01 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I didn't mention it because I don't see Rich constantly trying to paint the left as being totally evil and the right as being the only hope of our future. I replied to you, because it seems you are very quick to see the bigots on the right, but tend to ignore the others. As to Tweaks, she said what she said. Now she is trying to spin it. 

Your bias is showing

In my time here he's compared Jokes by a comedian to the lies put forth by SBVT as being equivalent. Amongst many others.

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Profile   Post #: 122
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 6:23:08 AM   
Elisabella


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Status: offline 		http://www.salon.com/entertainment/comics/this_modern_world/2011/01/18/this_modern_world

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 7:34:25 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

According to the right wingers on this board, the right wing groups do not participate in violent acts.

Regardless of all the evidence to the contrary.
Actually, most of the people on the right on this board HAVE conceded that there are fanatical right-wingers who do commit violent acts.  Of course, they have also noted that fanatical left-wingers also commit violent acts. 
Of course, the concession by the right is never noted...seemingly because the charges of left-wing violence are answered by MORE examples of right-wing violence, rather than addressing the examples of left-wing violence. 
There've been several threads recently in which I noted examples of violence on both sides.  Interestingly, the examples of left-wing violence were set aside and the focus was placed on the right.
Typical but annoying, especially when your very first paragraph starts out with a lie compounded by your attempt to put yourself on an objective pedestal with your statement below.

quote:

That being said, I would be remiss if I did not say that it is NOT all of the right that allegedly do commit acts of violence, it is a small minority of ULTRA right wing fanatics that might be involved.

This is the same as the sixties and seventies when it was a minority of ULTRA left wing fanatics that participated in violent acts.

Interesting...your even-handedness.  Especially as it comes when it is you that has posted first.  Hardly ever see it when you are attacking those on the right on other threads and are on the defensive.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 2/1/2011 7:56:56 AM >

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 7:46:30 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/nation/la-na-minutemen-murder-20110126
In the first place, despite the article's misleading statement, Shawna Forde was NOT a member of the Minutemen...she was forming her own group-The Minutemen American Defense.  She happened to "borrow" the name to make it more seemly than it was.  Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

In the second place, Ms. Forde attempted to get this group off the ground by forging an alliance with drug-dealers.  Can anyone here show that the REAL Minutemen have struck similar deals or that this is the way they handle their groups?

In the third place, the article notes that Ms. Forde and her group disguised who they were by impersonating police officers...wearing uniforms and IDENTIFYING themselves as such before bursting into the home.  Again, can ANYONE here on the left find these exact same tactics used by any of the Minutemen?

I could go on but what you have here, in reality, is an opportunistic woman who saw a way to make money for herself and her group by borrowing another, legitimate group's identity while using criminal tactics.

If you want to decry the real Minutemen, go for it.  But this ploy is cheap and easily disproven.  If you want to prove that the real Minutemen have any ties or tactics that compare with this criminal...and criminally stupid and vicious...woman and her group, answer the questions I've asked above.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 7:58:44 AM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/nation/la-na-minutemen-murder-20110126
In the first place, despite the article's misleading statement, Shawna Forde was NOT a member of the Minutemen...she was forming her own group-The Minutemen American Defense.  She happened to "borrow" the name to make it more seemly than it was.  Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

She was arrested while at the house of a prominent leader of another minuteman group.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/murder-in-the-desert/Content?oid=1739974

She also has a long history of activism in minuteman groups. Google her name and fake rape for details of an earlier incident.

< Message edited by DomKen -- 2/1/2011 8:02:15 AM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 11:19:32 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/nation/la-na-minutemen-murder-20110126
In the first place, despite the article's misleading statement, Shawna Forde was NOT a member of the Minutemen...she was forming her own group-The Minutemen American Defense.  She happened to "borrow" the name to make it more seemly than it was.  Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

She was arrested while at the house of a prominent leader of another minuteman group.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/murder-in-the-desert/Content?oid=1739974

She also has a long history of activism in minuteman groups. Google her name and fake rape for details of an earlier incident.



DomKen, are you saying that "anyone" she came in contact with is "tainted" as well? "Guilt by association?"

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 11:29:36 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

In the third place, the article notes that Ms. Forde and her group disguised who they were by impersonating police officers...wearing uniforms and IDENTIFYING themselves as such before bursting into the home. Again, can ANYONE here on the left find these exact same tactics used by any of the Minutemen?


You have issues with people on "the left". Why must it be someone on "the left"? Why cant it be a moderate? Or someone on the right?

Isnt this woman on trial? Shouldnt you wait to see what the trial exposes before making blanket statements?

quote:

"This is not what Minutemen do," said member Chuck Stonex, who responded to an e-mail from The Associated Press sent through the Web site. "Minutemen observe, document and report. This is nothing more than a cold-hearted criminal act, and that is all we want to say."


Are you really going on the record as believing this is all they do?

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(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 11:48:06 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Then again you and boi tend to tell anyone who posts stuff you dont like "You cant post here, youre not American" I am guessing if they agreed with both you then posting would be okay.


I don't remember telling someone they couldn't post if they were not americans. I have in the past wondered why some, like brain, are so fixated on us, that they never start posts about their own country. But I have never felt they didn't have a right to say what every they wanted to. In fact I have slammed people for telling brain he couldn't talk about us. Maybe you have me confused with another poster.



I havent confused you with anyone. You have said exactly what I am accusing you of to me.

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RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 11:54:59 AM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

TB, no worries.
It's just that in trying to discuss American politics/ law with foreigners they miss so many little things that start adding up and simply are not aware of many things that it bogs down the conversation in explanation. "Citizen" vs Subject seems to be a real sticking point for some reason even with such a huge differance between the two.
They (Brits) can't seem to grasp the concept that self defence is a right. I think you can be arrested in England for defending yourself!
We in the U.S. believe that God gave us our rights. I guess in many parts of Europe they believe that "other men" allow them to do things.
And we see the ergo proptor hoc arguments, "a drugpusher with a connection to the Minutemen shot a nine year old girl so ,...ergo....all Minutemen are murderers!"
That would be like me saying that many people in London have bad teeth so, all people in London have bad teeth.

Heretic, thanks for the link. I'm sure Rulemylife will be gnashing his teeth over that! He seems to need links for things that're common knowledge for everyone else. Too much MTV?


Utter nonsense. Self defence, even killing your attacker is permissable in certain circumstances. Talking out against bigotry and racism doesnt mean we miss the nuances either. As I said before, murdering defenceless people isnt, as you are suggesting, the same as self defence.

When you speak about God giving you youre rights, does that mean it only applies to Christians, and the law can take a running jump ?  Youre also talking B/s for about subjects and citizens as well, ill informed comment doesnt equal your "Huge difference"

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:03:22 PM   
CreativeDominant


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Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

In the third place, the article notes that Ms. Forde and her group disguised who they were by impersonating police officers...wearing uniforms and IDENTIFYING themselves as such before bursting into the home. Again, can ANYONE here on the left find these exact same tactics used by any of the Minutemen?


You have issues with people on "the left". Why must it be someone on "the left"? Why cant it be a moderate? Or someone on the right?
No more issues  with people on the left than people on the left have with people on the right.  The person who began this thread is from the left.  His problems with folks on the right is well-displayed on numerous threads.  So what is the point of your observation?  That I have the same issues from my perspective that you and others have from yours?

quote:

Isnt this woman on trial? Shouldnt you wait to see what the trial exposes before making blanket statements?
This woman is on trial for shooting and killing people.  Other charges may include associating with drug dealers (those she made agreements with to shake down OTHER drug dealers), impersonating an officer, etc.  She is NOT on trial for being a "Minuteman" (which she is not) nor is she on trial for stopping illegal aliens from crossing the border.

quote:

"This is not what Minutemen do," said member Chuck Stonex, who responded to an e-mail from The Associated Press sent through the Web site. "Minutemen observe, document and report. This is nothing more than a cold-hearted criminal act, and that is all we want to say."


quote:

Are you really going on the record as believing this is all they do?
I don't believe I have said what I believe the Minutemen groups do.  All I have stated is that they do not do anything this woman is on trial for.  If you have the proof that they do and have gone on trial for it, why don't you offer it up, as asked for?

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 2/1/2011 12:04:58 PM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:37:22 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/nation/la-na-minutemen-murder-20110126
In the first place, despite the article's misleading statement, Shawna Forde was NOT a member of the Minutemen...she was forming her own group-The Minutemen American Defense.  She happened to "borrow" the name to make it more seemly than it was.  Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

She was arrested while at the house of a prominent leader of another minuteman group.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/murder-in-the-desert/Content?oid=1739974

She also has a long history of activism in minuteman groups. Google her name and fake rape for details of an earlier incident.
Long History???  She joined the Minutemen Civil Defense League in 2007 and was asked to leave within 2 years.  She formed her splinter group in 2009.
In 2007, she first became involved in the anti-immigrant activities and later joined the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps. However, she was asked to leave the organization in February 2007 after members described her as being "unstable". Forde later founded a splinter group, the Minutemen American Defense organization, which had 14 members at the time of the attack on the Flores family

One of her associates in the crime? 
Jason Eugene "Gunny" Bush (born LaGrande, Oregon August 11, 1974 (1974-08-11) (age 36)[10]), of Meadview, Arizona, is M.A.D.'s National Director of Operations. (For those who have forgotten, M.A.D. is the splinter group formed by Forde.  It is NOT part of the Minutemen)  Bush was shot in the leg during the same time frame as the attack.
Bush is Forde's second in command. He has ties to the Aryan Nation and was also charged in June 2009 with the 1997 murder of Hector Lopez Partida in Wenatchee, Washington.[11] He is also charged with the Sept. 1997 execution styled killing of his Aryan Nation associate, Jonathan Bumstead, also of Wenatchee, WA for supposedly committing the "crime" of "being a 'race-traitor'". Later in 1997, Bush was imprisoned for the theft of a car and for his possession of a firearm (unlawful because Bush was already a felon, from a previous conviction).[12][13] After he was released in 2003, Bush moved to Sandpoint, Idaho, where he lived until 2007.[14] Bush is also suspected in at least 2 additional killings during the latter part of 1997. According to information that was provided to Washington state detectives, Jason is alleged to have, on two separate instances, shown up at acquaintances residences covered in blood, and asking to be allowed to clean up there, as he had "just finished taking care of some business". Detectives are currently attempting to find any links to unresolved cases.  (note that nowhere, even in Wikipedia, is it stated that this man had ties to, or was allied with, the LEGAL Minutemen groups)

The final member in the shoot-out?  Albert Robert Gaxiola (born February 9, 1967 (1967-02-09) (age 43)[15]), of Arivaca, Arizona, is believed to have provided intelligence about drug activities in the area to the M.A.D.[16][17][18][19] (Again, let it be noted that M.A.D. is Forde's group and is in no way tied to the legal Minutemen groups).  Gaxiola had been imprisoned on marijuana charges from 1992 to 2000.[12] According to Gonzalez, Gaxiola and Flores had an on-going dispute that had originated in 2008 over marijuana belonging to Gaxiola that had been stored at Flores's residence.[20] The head of the Tucson office of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, Anthony Coulson told the Arizona Daily Star, "Raul Flores was a drug-trafficker." Today, the DEA declines to comment on Mr. Flores. [21

So...except for Shawna Forde, neither of the other two have a tie to legal Minutemen groups, though one DOES have ties to the Aryan Nation.  The Aryan nation IS NOT the Minutemen.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:43:48 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

In the third place, the article notes that Ms. Forde and her group disguised who they were by impersonating police officers...wearing uniforms and IDENTIFYING themselves as such before bursting into the home. Again, can ANYONE here on the left find these exact same tactics used by any of the Minutemen?


You have issues with people on "the left". Why must it be someone on "the left"? Why cant it be a moderate? Or someone on the right? Because only people on the far left are trying tos core political points off of this
Isnt this woman on trial? Shouldnt you wait to see what the trial exposes before making blanket statements? This would not seem hysteially hypocritical, if you had said this in the first couple of posts, asking the Leftists trying to make political point to wait for all the facts and trial.
quote:

"This is not what Minutemen do," said member Chuck Stonex, who responded to an e-mail from The Associated Press sent through the Web site. "Minutemen observe, document and report. This is nothing more than a cold-hearted criminal act, and that is all we want to say."


Are you really going on the record as believing this is all they do? Right the also breath, and poop, and talk, ect. What the Minutemen do is watch the border and call the INS when they see suspicious activities. That they patroll with Guns is a LIE. But if Lefties keep repeating it they dream it will become true



< Message edited by luckydawg -- 2/1/2011 12:49:28 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:46:10 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/nation/la-na-minutemen-murder-20110126
In the first place, despite the article's misleading statement, Shawna Forde was NOT a member of the Minutemen...she was forming her own group-The Minutemen American Defense.  She happened to "borrow" the name to make it more seemly than it was.  Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

She was arrested while at the house of a prominent leader of another minuteman group.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/murder-in-the-desert/Content?oid=1739974

She also has a long history of activism in minuteman groups. Google her name and fake rape for details of an earlier incident.



DomKen, are you saying that "anyone" she came in contact with is "tainted" as well? "Guilt by association?"

No. I'm answering the question CD asked.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:48:19 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/nation/la-na-minutemen-murder-20110126
In the first place, despite the article's misleading statement, Shawna Forde was NOT a member of the Minutemen...she was forming her own group-The Minutemen American Defense.  She happened to "borrow" the name to make it more seemly than it was.  Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

She was arrested while at the house of a prominent leader of another minuteman group.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/murder-in-the-desert/Content?oid=1739974

She also has a long history of activism in minuteman groups. Google her name and fake rape for details of an earlier incident.
Long History???  She joined the Minutemen Civil Defense League in 2007 and was asked to leave within 2 years.  She formed her splinter group in 2009.

You asked if anyone could tie Shawna Forde to the larger minuteman movement. That what I did.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:49:58 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Ken, dont confuse them with facts, thats just not fair.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:53:47 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		To batshit leftists, beng kicked out is the same as being tied to......


ITs sort of like the fact that Israel has not slaughtered the Palestiniansis is proof that Isreal wants to saughter the Palestinians.

ITs what passes for logic to leftards.

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I was posting as Right Wing Hippie, but that account got messed up.

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:54:37 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/nation/la-na-minutemen-murder-20110126
In the first place, despite the article's misleading statement, Shawna Forde was NOT a member of the Minutemen...she was forming her own group-The Minutemen American Defense.  She happened to "borrow" the name to make it more seemly than it was.  Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

She was arrested while at the house of a prominent leader of another minuteman group.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/murder-in-the-desert/Content?oid=1739974

She also has a long history of activism in minuteman groups. Google her name and fake rape for details of an earlier incident.
Long History???  She joined the Minutemen Civil Defense League in 2007 and was asked to leave within 2 years.  She formed her splinter group in 2009.

You asked if anyone could tie Shawna Forde to the larger minuteman movement. That what I did.
Actually, you did not tie her to the larger Minuteman movement AND ITS tactics and means of operation.  You seemed to blithely skip over that.  Just as you skipped over her being ousted for her instability. 
You DID tie her to someone who had ties to a violent MILITIA group...but that is not the same thing, is it?

So...when one of your supporters below speaks of fairness....why don't you answer the full question as it is asked?

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 12:59:49 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/25/nation/la-na-minutemen-murder-20110126
In the first place, despite the article's misleading statement, Shawna Forde was NOT a member of the Minutemen...she was forming her own group-The Minutemen American Defense.  She happened to "borrow" the name to make it more seemly than it was.  Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

She was arrested while at the house of a prominent leader of another minuteman group.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/murder-in-the-desert/Content?oid=1739974

She also has a long history of activism in minuteman groups. Google her name and fake rape for details of an earlier incident.
Long History???  She joined the Minutemen Civil Defense League in 2007 and was asked to leave within 2 years.  She formed her splinter group in 2009.

You asked if anyone could tie Shawna Forde to the larger minuteman movement. That what I did.
Actually, you did not tie her to the larger Minuteman movement AND ITS tactics and means of operation.  You seemed to blithely skip over that.  Just as you skipped over her being ousted for her instability. 
You DID tie her to someone who had ties to a violent MILITIA group...but that is not the same thing, is it?

So...when one of your supporters below speaks of fairness....why don't you answer the full question as it is asked?

No need to get so defensive. You asked if she could be tied to the minuteman movement.
quote:

Can anyone on the left here PROVE a tie between Ms. Forde and her group and the REAL Minutemen?

No where did you mention tactics and means of operation.

I proved it by her past membership in another minuteman group and the fact that she was visiting the home of a leader of a different group when arrested.

There's an old rule of lawyers you might want to keep in mind, don't ask a question if you won't like the answer.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Another case of not right wing violence - 2/1/2011 1:16:32 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg
What the Minutemen do is watch the border and call the INS when they see suspicious activities. That they patroll with Guns is a LIE. But if Lefties keep repeating it they dream it will become true

So this shooting that there's been seven pages worth of arguing about didn't happen, then?

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Profile   Post #: 140
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