RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (Full Version)

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Ambyant -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 9:14:55 AM)

oooh, you mean you are like My 'special needs' kitty?    I call her name ... and a few minutes later she looks around, and eyes Me: "what?'' 
I think in your case, no longer looking up & answering is the line.
I also think that you are well worth the investment to get to know you as a person/submissive.
   Situation as well as temperament of you and those around you do add up.
I can see there might be difficulties if someone was owned in a D/s relationship - and the worst happened - what will be remembered is the power the Dominant had over the submissive, and that Person having to accept all blame.
        Personally, I believe that when a person goes through and overcomes obstacles, they emerge a deeper, stronger person.
(way to share your positivity YSG, kudos on not accepting limits!)
Always the best Diva~Zya



tiggerspoohbear -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 11:02:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

That is great. Slowly is good. Please inform me if it eventually proves to lessen your diabetes II.


I was originally diagnosed back in '01 and I was eventually able to go off the meds in '04.  I had a resurgence last May when my blood sugar was 5 times what it should have been.  How I didn't end up in a diabetic coma is beyond me, but I came damn close.  I'm back on the same meds, my blood sugar is within normal parameters.  I don't eat on time, but I don't have much of an appetite.  Usually once a day sometimes twice.  As long as it stays within 4 to 7 then even with the meds I consider myself lucky.  I'd like to get off them again, just have to see how things go.  The weightloss this time won't be done like last time.  I lost 133 lbs in 7 months and that was NOT the way to go, but I was seriously ill and didn't know it.  At one point I lost 14 lbs in 14 days and was at my GP's every week on her say-so.  Living on baby applesauce, yogurt and the occasional cracker wasn't helping, neither was the fact that the depression at that point was debilitating and I wasn't on the proper meds.  But such is life, and I came back from that, I can come back from this.

Thanks for the kind words Rule.  You don't know how much they're appreciated.  Now to go out before the dreaded snowstorm hits.  With its predicted accuracy the Toronto area could get 2 inches after saying we're expecting 16.  [;)]

[



LaTigresse -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 11:37:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

I can promise you that if a submissive lied to me about a condition when I'm open about mine, that would be the end of it. I'm fine with mental illness as long as it's being treated (which does not require medication). To lie about it? That's a serious breach of trust and one that I won't accept.


Yes exactly. Woe to anyone that would lie to me about something so vital to the sucess or failure of our relationship.



RapierFugue -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 11:46:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear

I met with a GP about a month ago who said he had no idea of the clinical depression if I hadn't told him.  He told me I was well organized in my thoughts, was forthright and seemed very self-aware.  That's the one thing that I've got going for me is self-awareness of what I suffer from and what I have to do to try to get the help I need.  It's an uphill battle, but one I know I have to fight.


You have exactly the right mentality, and the right psychological tools for the job if that helps any. The ones that don’t make it are generally the ones who are looking to blame everyone else but themselves, or only themselves. You're rational, self-aware, and want to try.

You can do this.

I wish you all the best in your battle.





wittynamehere -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 11:50:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic
Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked?

Such a simply question to answer: "No, not necessarily."

To expand, though, it would depend on how the two people fit together. Maybe her mental illness is that she's needy and requires constant validation, and perhaps he is just the type to provide that. In that case, her mental illness actually made her MORE suitable for him.

I worked in psych for 10 years. Even the sickest patients often had what it took to maintain a long term relationship. Yes, I'm talking full blown paranoia, delusions, auditory hallucinations, poor hygiene, the works. I saw several functioning relationships in very sick people. A couple of them had obvious aspects of D/s or kink. So yes, I would have to say it's possible for anyone. Just depends on the people involved, and their unique traits.



LadyPact -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 12:52:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance
Is it really being fair to someone who might be Bipolar who happens to manage it well to be stamped with a your completely damaged and really theres no hope for you ever to have a healthy relationship because you happen to have this genetic quirk? Is it really being fair to someone who has Situational depression to brand them as if they have just gone off and tried to kill themselves? What about the people who suffer from PTSD?

Sadly Life isnt fair, and the responses on this thread are the reason many people dont think  its okay to say Im Bi polar, or I have Borderline personality, Or I have Situational depression. Without being labled a VERY many amount of unpleasant and very untrue things. People HATE differences People hate quirks and We havent evolved past hating something we fear and we dont know about....until people as a whole do I dont think its wrong to let someone get to know me for who I am as a person and human being instead of a Diagnosis a doctor has slapped on me. If you dont like or how I behave the knowledge that Im say bi polar wont make a difference in that. Im going to be the same person and act the same way regardless of your knowledge that I happen to be Bi Polar II. It might explain why some days in May and October I become obsessive in getting things clean but it doesnt really change anything in my day to day life... IF i manage it properly......

You assume in your statement that every person with a mental illness at some point is going to come out of left field and attack the person their dating or kill a small animal. Or do something thats completely psychotic... Thats NOT the case in MOST people who suffer from a mental illness.

People go for years being undiagnosed with certain illness's It might take someone 15 years if they are a slow cycle bipolar to pick up a pattern that after ever 13 months i go from normal to very depressed for 4 months then go back to normal then 13 months later go to being really hyper for 4 months then go back to normal.

Mental Illnesses are so hard to diagnose as it is and none of them are 100 Percent definitive, There isnt a blood test someone can do to say you bi polar like there is for diabetes or high cholesterol.

Ive been in therapy for I would say 15 out of my 21 years. Ive been told I suffer from Bi polar, From Borderline personality disorder from Schizophrenia, From Dissociative Personality disorder, from chronic depression. from generalized anxiety disorder.....Ive even been told that I am having a gender identity crisis and thats why Im having so many issues. Every doctor says I suffer from something completely different and my last doctor didnt know anything.

Could it be very possible I suffer from one or many of the above illness's yes its possible. Is it also possible that many doctors get more money from the insurance companies if they are treating someone for X over Y? Or they get a kick back for prescribing X Drug for Y Disorder then just saying eat more apples and exercise me?

Let's do the highlighted first.  There is a difference between saying a situation would hit someone from out of left field and what you're saying above that a person is prone to attack their partner.  That's putting words in My mouth.  If we're talking about a relationship between two people (D/s in particular) and one of them has bouts of depression, exactly how is someone best prepared to handle that if they don't know what's going on?  Something like PTSD, I'd probably better know even if I'm just their top.  One of the hard limits that clip had when I first got him (it has changed since then) was long whips.  Due to his PTSD, he couldn't handle the crack of the whip.  Just imagine how badly that could have turned out if I wasn't aware of it.  (Now if I use it, I just don't crack the whip and it's fine.)  By the way, he's got the same reaction to other people playing in a public space with whips and fireworks displays.  It's also something that I have to be aware of should I have to wake him up suddenly.  In My opinion, these are definitely things that I need to know.

I do agree with you on what you're saying about diagnosing, misdiagnosing, and being unable to diagnose conditions.  We're not that great at it and I don't see it as an exact science.  That shouldn't stop anybody from making someone aware of those 'quirks' that have to be dealt with. 

It's also My personal opinion that in a number of occasions, our partners will spot the first signs of difficulty if they know what they're looking for when things like bouts of depression hit.  The person who is depressed often doesn't see the first signs of it because they are the one who is in the middle of it.  Sometimes, it's easier to spot from the person who is on the outside looking in at the situation.  MP can tell when I'm getting into those periods when I need more sunlight (Seasonal Affective Disorder) than I can see in Myself.  He notices the subtle changes in Me before I see them in Myself because he's aware of it.



FukinTroll -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 1:04:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


Something like PTSD,



Does that eject me from the community? Does that make me damaged goods beyond trust, value or worth?

PTSD is some harsh shit to deal with, but you gain the tools over time. More importantly, in this community, straightforward truth is a little more likely. We can parade our freaks here, why not our demons as well? PTSD is something I have to deal with daily. As stated, you gain better tools over time, and I will defer you to LP's post that I butchered, so you can see RL merit when dealing with the issue. I understand my PTSD demons, know their triggers and how to avoid/control those triggers. I do not have violent PTSD, I cope with panic and sinking depression from the experiences that gifted me with such a disorder. I am not a depressed person, however I do have demons to dance with that can and do bring me down.

Anyone in my dynamic will understand this before it becomes a dynamic. She/they need to be able see my freaks just as well as my demons and decide if this is their magic carpet ride or just where they get off and wait for the next one.

YMMV



RapierFugue -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 2:28:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I do agree with you on what you're saying about diagnosing, misdiagnosing, and being unable to diagnose conditions.  We're not that great at it and I don't see it as an exact science. 



There was a survey about 10 years ago in the UK that attempted to measure the efficacy of mental health diagnosis and treatments in the UK ... it was hampered because the profession refused to have much to do with it; due, I suspect, because they feared the results.

The interim findings were that fewer than 20% of patients derived full, long-term benefits, and only about 30% derived any benefit whatsoever. In other words, for half the general populace, the full weight of the mental health sector was, frankly, fuck-all help. The study was, IIRC, never completed - what you tend to see instead are professionally-driven (rather than independent) studies which, surprise, surprise, seem to suggest mental health care is doing pretty well. It’s a very profitable sector in the UK (in private medicine), and massively more so in the US, so I don’t think we’ll see that change anytime soon.

Now of course there are factors, such as there's no way of knowing what "cured" is, or not being able to objectively measure improvements as, unlike (say) surgery, there's no clear "this is better by 50%" equation - for mental health, clinicians tend (though not all of them) to divide patients into "can function in the community" and "cannot function in the community", regardless of whether their definition of "can function" has to be backed up by a fistful of meds, or the patient is able to function without.

What I'm trying (very badly, sorry) to say is that "not an exact science" doesn't begin to describe how poor modern mental health facilities are, even in developed nations. There's so much more we could be doing, but as it's one of the few "taboo" or socially unacceptable (or only partially acceptable) areas left, research and information are trailing massively behind more conventional and measurable forms of medicine. The fact that we often reference "improvements" as being in relation to baselines defined a century or more ago tends to support this theory.




RapierFugue -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 2:29:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll
Does that eject me from the community? Does that make me damaged goods beyond trust, value or worth?


Of course not!

It's all the other sick shit you do that does that ;)



FukinTroll -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 2:31:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RapierFugue


quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll
Does that eject me from the community? Does that make me damaged goods beyond trust, value or worth?


Of course not!

It's all the other sick shit you do that does that ;)


And here I was thinkin that was what made me popular. *vrrrrrrooooooooom* who could've known?



RapierFugue -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 2:33:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll
And here I was thinkin that was what made me popular. *vrrrrrrooooooooom* who could've known?


The answer could be "e) All of the above", you know ;)



pyroaquatic -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 4:29:45 PM)

Well Poohbear I would like to thank you for your words. Genuine and heartfelt.

I've been in relationships where I have been lied to or simply not told the truth until I have made some deductions. In any case it is a horrible feeling.

Yes telling a potential partner may cue the blade that severs the relationship but at that point the pain is minimal. Opposed to letting it drag on and my symptoms show eventually putting us both through a figurative hell and then disconnecting. Gah... I hate when things come out of the left field myself. Lying is not my bag.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A little under a year ago I was having epic internal struggles, panic attacks, episodes....

I told my father and my stepmother what was going on inside of me and they would not believe me nor would they help me because they believed I was perfectly fine. At the time I was working for my father and there must have been some other motivators for not believing me.... not going to go into those specifics.

So I left and faced homelessness for a while. Dumpster diving, sleeping out in the back country in a shelter comprised of sticks and debris, and other things that normal society found distasteful. In a normal situation society tended to look upon me and simply walk by. I blended in and was part of the sprawl of humanity.

Being homeless I was treated like an animal half of the time. I heard 'get a job' like it was hello (i worked at temp. services and did landscape for random people). While one half demonized me the other half were like angels. I was offered gigs, temporary shelter, advice, comfort, and decompression from being treated like a demon.

In all I could see why conditions in the mentally ill could lead to homelessness and homelessness leading to the worsening of mental illness. The cycle is unforgiving and vicious and I had a few reasons why my condition was not exasperated.

1.) I did not do heavy drugs.
2.) One hell of a positive and quirky attitude. Silver lining in everything ya know?
3.) I was no longer in a closed and suffocating toxic environment.

Granted I went back to live and work for my father and I had a panic episode that lasted for five days where I ended up 140 miles north of where I was living without any recollection of how i got there... on bike...

and then my folks started listening and I did get help medically and i promptly moved myself away from my father and the work to somewhere else where I acted as a butler/assistant.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
I've been through a plethora of doctors and have had an army of opinions on my mental illness (at one point i had the diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome and the follow up of that is a long story in of itself). The fact is I know I am mentally ill and at this point I know why I am mentally ill. I want to find a doctor/service that actually listens to me and tells me the steps i need to take to get to the next level of treatment. Not one who listens so they can slap on a diagnosis and pill me up. Pills are temporary and possibly dangerous both short term and long term. I know I need the right medication and a good doctor. Financially I am not in the best of ways and it could be because of my condition.

I'm at the point where I pray for stability in life, mind, and soul and I don't have to be feeling alright one moment and yelling at a microwave the next. Or hold down a job and find joy in going into work. Screw it... with what I have I really need to focus on writing. What am I thinking... trying to put round pegs in square holes. Finding someone who knows what makes a toxic environment and will not settle for anything less for me, who will take up arms for me because She will not put up with bullshit. Any bullshit. From doctors to me... or even herself.

i have not smiled since i was a child. when i do it feels contrived and forced. someday i will not have to and it will come naturally.

By the way i just came out of a sixteen hour slumber. now i am off to go wash my clothing by hand.








RapierFugue -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 5:28:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

i have not smiled since i was a child. when i do it feels contrived and forced. someday i will not have to and it will come naturally.


After your tale I'm hardly surprised to hear that.

You get yourself some treatment and I reckon you'll do fine - if what you've been through thus far hasn't sent you completely hatstand (which it hasn't, given your self-assessment) then you've got all the tools to do the job of fixing you, but just need maybe a little pointing in the right direction, and some temporary meds to ease the burden on yourself. Think of it as respite from your own demons.

I sincerely hope you fare well.



tiggerspoohbear -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 6:11:41 PM)

Pyro,

I can relate on the parental front.  My mom was the type to tell me to "pull myself up by my bootstraps" or that i was "it wall all in my head".  She did more to set me back than anything else.  She was good at cutting articles out of the paper that had nothing to do with me or my illness, listening to quacks but wouldn't take advice from my dad's sister who'd known since I was 13 that I'd have problems down the line because of her.

My poor dad was stuck between a rock and a hard place, wanting so badly to help me, but unable to since my mother didn't believe in clinical depression.  Sad to say, but it took her passing away 3 1/2 yrs ago for my dad to become the support system he has become.  There's nothing I can't tell him anymore.  I hated the feeling that he was caught between us, and that was not a place he needed to be.

The Canadian Mental Health system is no better than anywhere else in so-called "civilized" nations.  It's an uphill battle every minute of every day.  It's either bouts of days of sleep or insomnia.  I get to deal with nightmares and horrific night terrors.  I'm sick and tired of people telling me I don't sleep at night because I sleep all day.  I've learned on all my lil lonesome that if I don't get sleep when I can, then I won't get any at all.

I'm due for a change of meds.  I've been waiting since July to even get a recommendation to see a psychiatrist.  I finally got the letter yesterday to give them a call but I don't know how long I'll have to wait for an appointment.  At least this time it's a female doc.  I absolutely refuse to deal with the male of the species because of bad experiences. 

Anytime you need, please don't hesitate to contact me on the other side.  I'll be more than happy to read whatever you have to say and to help out in any little way I can.  You are a true fighter and although I know it's not always easy, it's a fight we have to keep up.  Someone has to scream at the top of their lungs that help is needed.  My voice is becoming hoarse, but I won't give up.  Nothing is going to keep me from staying on gawd's lil green earth.  I've got as much a right to the help I need as someone with a physical disability. 



RapierFugue -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 6:18:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear

I've got as much a right to the help I need as someone with a physical disability. 


Absolutely. And, given that many more people could be diagnosed as mentally ill at some stage in their lives than physically disabled, it's a disgrace that the developed nations don't spend more time, money and effort on sorting the problem.



strangedesire -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 7:04:47 PM)

The other day, I was driving my Kitten to something or other. I don't remember how the subject came up (economic inequality, probably) but I remember saying, "I'd be dead today if I didn't have such good health insurance."

She was quiet for a minute, and then said, "Yes. Yes you would."

When I say that I have a long history of depression, I mean it.

Kitten used to have panic attacks three times a day. By the time I met her, she'd convinced her parents to help her get into therapy, she was taking meds, and things were getting better. I've seen a few panic attacks of hers. She hasn't had one since we formally started dating.

She still has anxiety and depression. I still have depression and...more depression. But we take care of each other, and things are getting better for both of us. I teach her tricks I've learned from some of the best clinicians in the country. She pokes at the sad knotted-up places inside me until they release and finally relax. We're both pretty stable - we would have been fine if we'd never met - but we make each other stronger.

I think, that to be a good partner for someone, you need to get your life in order to a certain extent. Find the road to getting better, and start walking it. If you can't do that, though, you'll wind up dumping your problems in your partner's lap and asking them to fix you. Not fair to either of you. That's not the way it works. You have to change yourself.

Read Elyn Saks' biography. It has nothing to do with kink, but she's proof that even if you lose your mind, you can get it back.



tiggerspoohbear -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/1/2011 7:37:52 PM)

O I haven't lost my mind yet.  Now my marbles, that's another story.  They're rolling around hanging out with the dust bunnies, and I'd go rescue them but the damn dust bunnies are on the attack.

And I'm 1/2 around the bend, and a little bit nutty, but I'm the most spechul of nuts, the honey roasted pecan.  So I consider myself lucky that I can still laugh at myself and love to make others laugh.





DesFIP -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/2/2011 2:28:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule


But why do they get sick? Why do they not recover spontaneously within two weeks as like in for instance measles? What sense is there in treating someone if they do not get better withing two weeks, as for example antibiotics do in case of a bacterial infection?

Why are the waiting rooms of not only psychiatrists but also of all physicians full and overflowing with patients instead of nearly empty? Can it be because them white coats have no idea what they are dealing with qua causes and how to treat and prevent them.

What is worse: can it be that so many people are in a medically declining condition because of iatrogenic diseases?




Why on earth would you assume that all cases of depression are iatrogenic? They aren't. They're genetic. I don't know anyone with a mood disorder who, when questioned properly, doesn't start coming up with cousins or great aunts who no one spoke about because they were weird. Clear tip off of a genetic disorder.

Of course, going by your thoughts, diabetics should not be treated either since they don't recover spontaneously within two weeks.

Pyro's in the UK as I recall. The NHS there is geared towards simple problems, the wait for a therapist is several years standing I've been told and you have to take who you are assigned to even if you don't click with them. Which guarantees that the therapy will not be effective.



Rule -> RE: Would mental illness bar a submissive from being picked? (2/2/2011 3:20:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Why on earth would you assume that all cases of depression are iatrogenic?

Where did I say so?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
They're genetic.

Isn't that what I have been arguing for specific cases?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Of course, going by your thoughts, diabetics should not be treated either since they don't recover spontaneously within two weeks.

That would indeed be in the interest of the species. However, the cold equations do not always apply. Diabetes I and II are for the most part preventable, as all indications are that they are caused by environmental factors such as infectious diseases and diet. If I recall correctly diabetes scarcely occurred before the twentieth century.



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