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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 8:55:57 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude
Right ho then old bean just riddle me this (third time is the charm): Are you seriously comparing anti-Semitism, racism and homophobia to playfully ruffling the feathers of a few subbie dudes (on the internet!)?


[code] http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=3550240 [code]

Sorry, Dud, third time is actually a boil on the backside. There's a limited number of times I'm willing to bash my head against a brick wall.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 1/31/2011 8:58:02 AM >

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:02:11 AM   
TotallyDude


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quote:

Sorry, Dud, third time is actually a boil on the backside. There's a limited number of times I'm willing to bash my head against a brick wall.


Right. Because I've gotcha then don't I old boy? Because you keep appealing to some vague notion of "similar mindsets" blah blah blah which is all well and good until it comes down to brass tacks and you have to either say "No. I overstated my case the first time 'round, oops, my bad man" or "Why yes. I DO think prodding subbie boys (on the internet) with a bit of gentle bonhommie IS the same as being racist or homophobic." Impaled on a dilemma you are clumsily inventing new mechanisms and categories to distance yourself from your initial bluster and it doesn't work that way, mate.

Don't get me wrong you'll get away with it here. But I suspect one or two of the sharper people will take you to task for it in private because, homeboy, you stepped in it and not everybody is dizzy enough to let you slide on the basis of being a likable dude with a bangin' bod.

You stepped in it and when I gave you the chance to step right out of it ("Just change the terms in your analogy, keep the structure the same, I won't hold it against you") your ego wouldn't let you do that. You can flutter and flail all you want cutie pie, you stepped in it and you know you stepped in it and that's enough for me ;)

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:11:21 AM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

"No. I overstated my case the first time 'round, oops, my bad man" or "Why yes. I DO think prodding subbie boys (on the internet) with a bit of gentle bonhommie IS the same as being racist or homophobic."

Admittedly I skimmed the thread very briefly, but I'm pretty sure that's not what he actually said.

I think he was talking to your friend on the thread, and what he actually said was something along the lines that denying that other people can be offended by your statements about sub males is like denying that white people can be offended by racism.

Not the same thing.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:11:24 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

Right. Because I've gotcha then don't I [etc]


Thank you for an interesting thread and I hope you enjoy your time here at CM, TD.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:17:28 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

Right ho then old bean just riddle me this (third time is the charm): Are you seriously comparing anti-Semitism, racism and homophobia to playfully ruffling the feathers of a few subbie dudes (on the internet!)?


Yes.  Yes it is. 

Bullying is bullying, no matter if you say, "I was only teasing," or not. 

Anytime you single out a section of humanity as being "less than" you are being a bigot.  And it is disgusting. 

Not only that, but your chosen words, especially referring to them as "pussies," is actually saying that they are acting like women.  So, not only are you bullying a segment of humanity in the name of fun, the way you are doing so is by insulting 50% of the world's population. 

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:25:23 AM   
lizi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Yes.  Yes it is. 

Bullying is bullying, no matter if you say, "I was only teasing," or not. 

Anytime you single out a section of humanity as being "less than" you are being a bigot.  And it is disgusting. 

Not only that, but your chosen words, especially referring to them as "pussies," is actually saying that they are acting like women.  So, not only are you bullying a segment of humanity in the name of fun, the way you are doing so is by insulting 50% of the world's population. 


Yup.
You can keep saying OP that you only meant to be playful but you used abrasive language. It's like Will Ferrell in Talladega Nights, his character kept saying derogatory things but prefacing it with "With all due respect". Yeah, that was funny, but see....ya can't say crappy generalizing things about a group of people and then tell people when they get peeved about it that they're taking it too hard and comparing it to bigger atrocities when that's not appropriate. You've been called on being judgemental now by quite a few people, it might be time to look at what you did and perhaps apologize instead of backpedaling.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:25:53 AM   
TotallyDude


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quote:

Thank you for an interesting thread and I hope you enjoy your time here at CM, TD.


You're welcome man. I'll keep my eye on you. :)

I am enjoying it already!
quote:

Thank you for an interesting thread and I hope you enjoy your time here at CM, TD.


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Fortune and glory, kid, fortune and glory.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:32:57 AM   
TotallyDude


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quote:

Yes.  Yes it is. 

Bullying is bullying, no matter if you say, "I was only teasing," or not. 

Anytime you single out a section of humanity as being "less than" you are being a bigot.  And it is disgusting. 

Not only that, but your chosen words, especially referring to them as "pussies," is actually saying that they are acting like women.  So, not only are you bullying a segment of humanity in the name of fun, the way you are doing so is by insulting 50% of the world's population. 


Straight up, I think you dudes have convinced me that using "pussy" was counterproductive and I'm happy to change it to "wimp" instead. It keeps most of the connotative impact and I'll think about whether "pussy" is 1) innately misogynist (which means I won't use it again) or 2) delightfully provocative (in which case I will bust it out from time to time).

But seriously, I'm befuddled by the notion that "bullying" subbie dudes (on an internet message board) is as bad as full blown anti-Semitism and homophobia. I mean the specific type of subbie dude I was referring to, the wimpy sycophantic spineless Beta male type, has got to expect to take some hassle just because of the way they present themselves. Hell, they probably get off on it a little. I really think it's unfair to compare busting their chops a bit to being an anti-Semite or a homophobe or something on that level.

I appreciate your input here and it has certainly given me something to think about.

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Fortune and glory, kid, fortune and glory.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:44:28 AM   
TotallyDude


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quote:

Admittedly I skimmed the thread very briefly, but I'm pretty sure that's not what he actually said.

I think he was talking to your friend on the thread, and what he actually said was something along the lines that denying that other people can be offended by your statements about sub males is like denying that white people can be offended by racism.

Not the same thing.


Yeah, I dunno. Dude seems like a well meaning bloke and all but the post that grossed me out to the max was right here where he is like:

quote:

Now, imagine turning the clock back to 1960 and read the following modification of the statement made by the OP. If you can't see why it would be offensive, you have something lacking in you:

"I should amend this to say "Why are gay men such pussies" because it seems like the gay women I know are pretty good. Plus gay women for the most part are pretty kickass. But there's something about gay men that makes them whiny pussies and I want to know what it is.

I can't complain. A few of us gay men are awesome dudes and all the whiny dramatic emo type nonsense from the others only makes us stand out more. But is it something in the nature of gay men to be this way? Or is it more like there are dudes out there who are wussy, dimwitted, overly emotional jellyfish and they figure if they can't be the lead singer for some Fallout Boy ripoff band they may as well become self-proclaimed gays?"


And then I was like YUCK because comparing what I said about subbie dudes to what someone in 1960 might have said about homosexuals was just wrong. It wasn't wrong because of his desire to emphasize that the form of my rhetoric was offensive (it may have been incendiary and that may not have been accidental tee hee) but to equate being a subbie dude on the internet with being a homosexual in the 1960s was yuck city. That's why I offered to let him reformulate his position to something that might really be equivocal like "dudes who wear Fred Perry shirts," or "dudes who still listen to Radiohead," or "dudes who go out in public wearing authentic jerseys from their favorite sporting team."

If he'd just said "Your formulation was inflammatory" I'd have giggled sheepishly and said "Yeah that's a fair cop." Comparing the experience of being a sub dude on an internet message board (where subbie dudes are clearly pretty coddled no less) to being a gay dude or a lesbian in the 1960s made me want to laugh and then cry and then laugh some more.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:45:49 AM   
Chulain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude
Straight up, I think you dudes have convinced me that using "pussy" was counterproductive and I'm happy to change it to "wimp" instead.

No, no, that doesn't help your trolling to be any more subtle. Have another go.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:49:30 AM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

But seriously, I'm befuddled by the notion that "bullying" subbie dudes (on an internet message board) is as bad as full blown anti-Semitism and homophobia. I mean the specific type of subbie dude I was referring to, the wimpy sycophantic spineless Beta male type, has got to expect to take some hassle just because of the way they present themselves. Hell, they probably get off on it a little. I really think it's unfair to compare busting their chops a bit to being an anti-Semite or a homophobe or something on that level.

I appreciate your input here and it has certainly given me something to think about.


I am befuddled as to why you think it is funny. 

I am also befuddled as to why you think they should expect it. 

Perhaps if you could explain those to me, I could help un-befuddle you.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 9:56:32 AM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chulain

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude
Straight up, I think you dudes have convinced me that using "pussy" was counterproductive and I'm happy to change it to "wimp" instead.

No, no, that doesn't help your trolling to be any more subtle. Have another go.



No, please don't.

The "Valley-speak" is getting on my nerves. And the only guy who can really claim The Dude status is Jeff Bridges.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 10:24:30 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

quote:

Ok, I get it now. You are trying to make the other boys on here look better. Carry on, by all means.


So glib. So facile. We might become friends, dude. :D


Could be. You just never know.


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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 10:50:17 AM   
Aylee


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Hmmm.

No answer. 

Why am I not surprised.

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Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 10:58:02 AM   
TotallyDude


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quote:


Hmmm.

No answer. 

Why am I not surprised.


LOL take it as a compliment. I am doing some honest self-reflection here as to why I think it's funny to make fun of awkward, sycophantic dudes who slobber all over everything to try to conform to a cartoon image of "submission" they have in their little brains. When I think about it, it actually seems sort of petty and mean to mock them for this behavior.

At the same time I don't want to come out and say "So I will try to be more sensitive" because that would almost certainly be a lie. So it's a conundrum where I guess I am coming to terms, and not for the first time, with the fact that I can just flat out be sort of a dickhead.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 11:33:24 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

No, please don't.

The "Valley-speak" is getting on my nerves. And the only guy who can really claim The Dude status is Jeff Bridges.


Like totally dudette.

Forgive me, I couldn't resist.       Mostly because there's not really anything constructive to say and I forgot to go to Troll Smart to pick up another bag of Purina Troll Chow.

"Dude" is an ass and just getting some jollies twisting everyone around. 


< Message edited by flcouple2009 -- 1/31/2011 11:34:18 AM >

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 11:39:48 AM   
TotallyDude


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quote:

"Dude" is an ass and just getting some jollies twisting everyone around. 


Partially true but real talk, I'm also interested in the de-wussification of subbie dudes.

Nietzsche said that "All great things must announce themselves in terrible and monstrous masks in order to inscribe themselves on the hearts of humanity." Well The Dude ain't got any terrifying or monstrous masks (some say my face is pretty scary) but sometimes I do play a dick on the internet in order to make a point. And that point is "Subbie dudes--grow a pair!"

You two look like a very happy couple incidentally. The Duder salutes you!

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 12:05:58 PM   
Aylee


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

Partially true but real talk, I'm also interested in the de-wussification of subbie dudes.



Why?

I don't have a problem with anybody because of whom they are, I only have a problem when they try and make me be someone I am not.

Edited to add:

I am a Heartless Bitch because I choose to be one, not because the world has labeled me like that.

< Message edited by Aylee -- 1/31/2011 12:09:28 PM >

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 12:12:30 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

Yeah, I dunno. Dude seems like a well meaning bloke and all but the post that grossed me out to the max was right here

I was right - in that post he was responding to your little friend saying that people had no right to be offended, not to your original post.

It's a basic logic thing, and he had a valid point.

In the interests of transparency I should point out that the guy's my ex, but let me tell you that he is difficult to offend. We are not talking about an oversensitive person here, we're talking about a pretty easygoing, highly rational person. And if your friend pissed him off enough for him to compare him to a 1960s homophobe I'm inclined to attribute that to your friend being shockingly unpleasant rather than Peon overreacting.

I mean, 'nobody can be offended on the behalf of anyone else'? Are you actually defending that as a rationale, or are you just trying to be difficult?

quote:

I guess I am coming to terms, and not for the first time, with the fact that I can just flat out be sort of a dickhead.

I'd be more inclined to assume 'insecure' than 'dickhead'. People who genuinely believe they are awesome can't be bothered to put other people down - it's too much work. But people who say ' as a rule all type x are crappy apart from me!' often seem to be saying 'please validate the notion that I'm the exception to the rule, because I'm not entirely convinced I am!'

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RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? - 1/31/2011 12:23:14 PM   
TotallyDude


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quote:

In the interests of transparency I should point out that the guy's my ex, but let me tell you that he is difficult to offend. We are not talking about an oversensitive person here, we're talking about a pretty easygoing, highly rational person. And if your friend pissed him off enough for him to compare him to a 1960s homophobe I'm inclined to attribute that to your friend being shockingly unpleasant rather than Peon overreacting.


"Friend" is a bit of an overstatement. I didn't know that dude or pay attention to half of what he said.

I'm fairly recalcitrant in my belief that comparing anything said about subbie dudes on a message board to homophobia is so vanishingly dense as to beggar belief. I should qualify that by pointing out that I have a pretty good friend who had his face beaten to a pulp for the crime of being seen leaving a gay bar so it's an issue I'm sort of invested in.

At the end of the day I'm perfectly happy to say we're going to have our own opinions on the matter. C'est la vie and all that.

quote:

I'd be more inclined to assume 'insecure' than 'dickhead'. People who genuinely believe they are awesome can't be bothered to put other people down - it's too much work. But people who say ' as a rule all type x are crappy apart from me!' often seem to be saying 'please validate the notion that I'm the exception to the rule, because I'm not entirely convinced I am!'


I'll cop to being insecure, sure. I'm working on it but for right now I definitely qualify as an insecure posturing doofus. It's a cheap trick to get attention, and it sort of works. Though then there's fallout to deal with and it tends to put off people with a nose for that sort of thing. I'm a tangle of glitches, bad appetites and weird urges. The hope is I may turn out alright in the end.

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Fortune and glory, kid, fortune and glory.

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