RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (Full Version)

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StuntmanMike -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:09:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Ahhhh...the old "it cannot be me posting offensive things it must be the clique" argument.

Sorry, dude. Just as you are allowed to post whatever nonsense you want to post, anyone is free to reply as they see fit.

And those who don't even fit the stereotype you are bashing can have an opinion, you know, because, like, it's a free world out there in forum world.


No one said you couldn't post. That's you reading into things. What was said is that it's odd that someone would be offended by a question or statement that had absolutely nothing at all to do with them. You're a female, yet a question about male submissives offends you? That's rather odd, don't you think?

That would be like me being offended by someone asking a question about submissive females. I'm neither submissive nor a female. So for me to be offended by such a question would be silly.

The problem without our society today is that no one takes the time to think anymore. We just react. We have TV shows and advertising that appeals strictly to the lowest common denominator, removing the need for any thought whatsoever. A guy comes to a forum to ask a *question* based on things he's seen. And the people here react without taking the time to understand the sentiment or catalyst for the question. Instead, they just read the question as a statement, as though the OP flat-out called every submissive man that walks the planet a pussy. That's as irrational as it is illogical.



LadyPact -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:24:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StuntmanMike
No one said you couldn't post. That's you reading into things. What was said is that it's odd that someone would be offended by a question or statement that had absolutely nothing at all to do with them. You're a female, yet a question about male submissives offends you? That's rather odd, don't you think?

That would be like me being offended by someone asking a question about submissive females. I'm neither submissive nor a female. So for me to be offended by such a question would be silly.

The problem without our society today is that no one takes the time to think anymore. We just react. We have TV shows and advertising that appeals strictly to the lowest common denominator, removing the need for any thought whatsoever. A guy comes to a forum to ask a *question* based on things he's seen. And the people here react without taking the time to understand the sentiment or catalyst for the question. Instead, they just read the question as a statement, as though the OP flat-out called every submissive man that walks the planet a pussy. That's as irrational as it is illogical.


Unless you actually know that she is a submissive female because you are aware of her posting history or you've read her profile, you're doing the same thing.  Wouldn't a person think that the generalization of submissive males being categorized that way might be offensive to Dominant women?

If I came on here and created a post saying that I believe submissive women have no back bone, I'd be put right not only by submissive females, but also by the Dominants who care for them.  In fact, I'd be damn surprised if the men weren't all over Me for insulting the people they care about.  As a Dominant man, do you tolerate people making derogatory comments about your girl or her orientation?  I'd certainly hope not.



PeonForHer -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:37:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: StuntmanMike

You're a female, yet a question about male submissives offends you? That's rather odd, don't you think?


Not really. Insulting an entire demographic is something that a lot of people find offensive. That is what the OP did.

quote:


A guy comes to a forum to ask a *question* based on things he's seen. And the people here react without taking the time to understand the sentiment or catalyst for the question. Instead, they just read the question as a statement, as though the OP flat-out called every submissive man that walks the planet a pussy. That's as irrational as it is illogical.


The question contained an implication that was insulting. Now, imagine turning the clock back to 1960 and read the following modification of the statement made by the OP. If you can't see why it would be offensive, you have something lacking in you:

"I should amend this to say "Why are gay men such pussies" because it seems like the gay women I know are pretty good. Plus gay women for the most part are pretty kickass. But there's something about gay men that makes them whiny pussies and I want to know what it is.

I can't complain. A few of us gay men are awesome dudes and all the whiny dramatic emo type nonsense from the others only makes us stand out more. But is it something in the nature of gay men to be this way? Or is it more like there are dudes out there who are wussy, dimwitted, overly emotional jellyfish and they figure if they can't be the lead singer for some Fallout Boy ripoff band they may as well become self-proclaimed gays?"

Now do you get it? Wouldn't you consider somebody who said that to be an obnoxious little cretin?






StuntmanMike -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:41:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Unless you actually know that she is a submissive female because you are aware of her posting history or you've read her profile, you're doing the same thing. 


I didn't say she was a submissive female. I said she was a female. And I'm doing nothing but asking a question.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Wouldn't a person think that the generalization of submissive males being categorized that way might be offensive to Dominant women?


Why would they think that? A dominant woman has no reason to be offended by the way someone sees submissive men. Again, it goes back to my example of me, a straight, dominant man being offended by a generalization about submissive females. It just doesn't make sense. I'm neither submissive, nor a female. So what the hell do I care about a generalization made about them? It doesn't apply to me in the slightest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
If I came on here and created a post saying that I believe submissive women have no back bone, I'd be put right not only by submissive females, but also by the Dominants who care for them.  In fact, I'd be damn surprised if the men weren't all over Me for insulting the people they care about.  As a Dominant man, do you tolerate people making derogatory comments about your girl or her orientation?  I'd certainly hope not.


And that would be just as illogical and irrational. Not to mention the fact that the OP didn't come here and make a statement. He asked a question. A statement ends with a "." A question has a "?" His was question that was based, no doubt, on things he's witnessed. He asked the question in a provocative way, but not necessarily am inflammatory one.

Yet, people here predictably reacted as though he was standing there, arms raised and declaring henceforth that all submissive males were pussies. It's a fairly common reaction, but again, that's why it amuses me.

You see, if I asked a provocative question about a group of people, I'd expect people in that group might be...provoked. But I wouldn't necessarily expect people not in that group to feel....anything....as I'm not talking to them.

It's basically a matter of security. Those who are secure in themselves enough to know he's not talking about them are those who are not offended by his question. Those who are so offended by his question that they just have to jump his ass are those who, on some level, feel like he's attacking them. But hes' not.



StuntmanMike -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:44:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Not really. Insulting an entire demographic is something that a lot of people find offensive. That is what the OP did.


Actually, he asked a question. Is asking a question insulting to you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Now do you get it? Wouldn't you consider somebody who said that to be an obnoxious little cretin?


Nope. You see, I'm not gay and this isn't 1960. So the question as you've worded it wouldn't offend me in the slightest. Perhaps as a reply, I might mention some examples that fit the generalization, while mentioning a few that do not and then attempting to come to a conclusion why the OP has met more of the examples of his generalization instead of ones who do not fit it. What I would not do, however, is reply as though he kicked my dog because he felt like asking a question about gays.



TotallyDude -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:50:30 PM)

quote:

The question contained an implication that was insulting. Now, imagine turning the clock back to 1960 and read the following modification of the statement made by the OP. If you can't see why it would be offensive, you have something lacking in you:

"I should amend this to say "Why are gay men such pussies" because it seems like the gay women I know are pretty good. Plus gay women for the most part are pretty kickass. But there's something about gay men that makes them whiny pussies and I want to know what it is.

I can't complain. A few of us gay men are awesome dudes and all the whiny dramatic emo type nonsense from the others only makes us stand out more. But is it something in the nature of gay men to be this way? Or is it more like there are dudes out there who are wussy, dimwitted, overly emotional jellyfish and they figure if they can't be the lead singer for some Fallout Boy ripoff band they may as well become self-proclaimed gays?"

Now do you get it? Wouldn't you consider somebody who said that to be an obnoxious little cretin?


Bro. Look at what you just typed and think it over. Do you really want to equate the genuine oppression faced by the gay community with a comment on a message board about subbie dudes? I mean you seem to be one of the top tier dudes here and so I'm sure that here nobody will really call you on it, but you also seem clever enough to know in your heart what a shitty move that is.

I will totally, without any prejudice, let you rework your analogy so that you don't need to compare subbie dudes on a message board with the homosexual community circa 1960 in terms of the kind of prejudice and discrimination they face. I mean you're snarky and you rock the abs and all that shit but ask yourself, do you wanna be that dude? Do you really wanna be all out balls to the wall Privilege Denying Dude?

Oh and dude, on the real, "obnoxious little cretin?" So harsh! Are you angry I caught your embarrassing grammatical error on that silly little poll question you tried to post? Coz I wouldn't worry about that it could happen to a lot of people.



kalikshama -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:50:30 PM)

quote:

Suddenly, tons of people who did not even fit said group, reacted to the question as though the OP kicked their dog.


No they didn't. They ate popcorn and/or politely tried to show the troll the error of his ways. No outrage here. I'm feeling ennui myself.



PeonForHer -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:53:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: StuntmanMike
Nope. You see, I'm not gay and this isn't 1960. So the question as you've worded it wouldn't offend me in the slightest.


Far out.

So, assuming you're not Jewish, you wouldn't mind if someone came on and made exactly the same comment, included in which was an insulting implication, about Jews rather than sub males? Seriously, Mike, aren't you being just a tad obtuse, here?



StuntmanMike -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:55:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kalikshama

quote:

Suddenly, tons of people who did not even fit said group, reacted to the question as though the OP kicked their dog.


No they didn't. They ate popcorn and/or politely tried to show the troll the error of his ways. No outrage here. I'm feeling ennui myself.


And yet even that statement garnered a denial. If my statement didn't apply to you, was it really necessary to speak up? Speaking up and saying "Nuh-uh" seems to do more to suggest "Uh-huh" to me than what you were trying to say.

As I said before, it comes to a question of security. If you asked a question about dominant males, any reply I'd give would be one based on attempting to assist understanding. Not reacting and proclaiming that I was not one of whatever group you were complaining about. If I knew I wasn't in said group, there would be no reason for me to post a message denying it. Knowing it myself would be plenty.



PrincessofSadden -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:55:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

quote:

are dommes oussies too?


Well I am not sure how germane this is to the thread but sure, some dommes are wimps too. The "Oh honey you lay still while I kiss your chest" types who never want to cause pain or tie anybody up or anything. That's fine for some dudes but I figure those are just women who want a boyfriend who is too wussy to ever walk out on them.


If a domme wants to kiss her sub's chest, then she can. Domination isn't just about whips and handcuffs. It's a state of mind and about being in control of the situation. I'll kiss my boyfriend's chest any damn time I want, as he's my sub and I get what I want when I want from him, no matter what it is.

With that said, I find those who must self proclaim their greatness to usually be a tad bit insecure. Be secure in yourself enough to not have to put down others to make yourself "rise to the top" as you say.

- Princess



TotallyDude -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:56:17 PM)

quote:

Far out.

So, assuming you're not Jewish, you wouldn't mind if someone came on and made exactly the same comment, included in which was an insulting implication, about Jews rather than sub males? Seriously, Mike, aren't you being just a tad obtuse, here?


LOL bro so now you've gone from comparing subbie dudes (on the internet!) to gays in 1960 to comparing them to Jews? Wow, duder, just wow.



TotallyDude -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:58:44 PM)

quote:

If a domme wants to kiss her sub's chest, then she can. Domination isn't just about whips and handcuffs. It's a state of mind and about being in control of the situation. I'll kiss my boyfriend's chest any damn time I want, as he's my sub and I get what I want when I want from him, no matter what it is.


Grrrrr! I like you Princess. Nobody puts baby in the corner!

But for real now, if all a Domme ever wants to do is just have her sub lie back languidly while she strokes his hair, she's a wimp and he's a wimp too. It doesn't mean she's not a "real Domme" or whatever and she's free to have those desires and act on them. I'm just saying, it's a wimpy little form of power exchange and it wouldn't be my cup of tea. That's all.



WyldHrt -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:59:02 PM)

quote:

Not to mention the fact that the OP didn't come here and make a statement. He asked a question. A statement ends with a "." A question has a "?" His was question that was based, no doubt, on things he's witnessed. He asked the question in a provocative way, but not necessarily am inflammatory one.

Bullshit. From the OP:
quote:

But there's something about sub dudes that makes them whiny pussies and I want to know what it is.
That would be a statement.



StuntmanMike -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 2:59:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: StuntmanMike
Nope. You see, I'm not gay and this isn't 1960. So the question as you've worded it wouldn't offend me in the slightest.


Far out.

So, assuming you're not Jewish, you wouldn't mind if someone came on and made exactly the same comment, included in which was an insulting implication, about Jews rather than sub males? Seriously, Mike, aren't you being just a tad obtuse, here?


You're just not understanding my point. You cannot be offended "for" someone. Either something offends you, or it doesn't. No, I'm not jewish. So any comment about them would not apply one iota to me. Especially (and here's the kicker) if they were asking a QUESTION about said group. Again, he didn't come here, standing in a Capt. Morgan's pose and proclaiming any and all sub males to be pussies. He came in here asking a question that was designed to spark discussion.

A question. Not a statement. Apparently in his travels, he's seen many "pussified" sub men. So have I. As I said in my first reply, I was recently talking about this very subject with a sub female I know. She even said flat-out that she knows sub men, but beyond a casual "hi" or a quick hug if she knows them well, she tends to shy away from them. For some of the very reasons queried about in the OP.

Does that mean all fit that category? Not at all. But the OP didn't say "all." He never proclaimed that sub men were all pussies. He asked a question.

I'll say that one more time for posterity. He asked a QUESTION.



LadyPact -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 3:02:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StuntmanMike
I didn't say she was a submissive female. I said she was a female. And I'm doing nothing but asking a question.
 
Was it answered?  (I actually thought peon did a bang up job above.)

quote:

Why would they think that? A dominant woman has no reason to be offended by the way someone sees submissive men. Again, it goes back to my example of me, a straight, dominant man being offended by a generalization about submissive females. It just doesn't make sense. I'm neither submissive, nor a female. So what the hell do I care about a generalization made about them? It doesn't apply to me in the slightest.

Sure it does.  See, one of those submissive men happens to be owned by Me.  That makes it My concern.  Perhaps we're just different personality types. 

quote:

And that would be just as illogical and irrational. Not to mention the fact that the OP didn't come here and make a statement. He asked a question. A statement ends with a "." A question has a "?" His was question that was based, no doubt, on things he's witnessed. He asked the question in a provocative way, but not necessarily am inflammatory one.

Just because a person puts a question mark at the end of a derogatory comment doesn't mean that he had honorable intentions.  I could do the same thing.

Are you an asshole who is prejudiced against sub men?

Now, that looks like a question, but it could also be see as I'm trying to get confirmation on My opinion of you as an asshole who is prejudiced against sub men.

quote:

Yet, people here predictably reacted as though he was standing there, arms raised and declaring henceforth that all submissive males were pussies. It's a fairly common reaction, but again, that's why it amuses me.

I see it like this.  I've yet to see a vast majority of Dominant women come to these boards or anywhere in real life and say they think the person collared to them is a pussy.  I don't see a lot of it from other demographics, either.  Sure, there will be the random guy who has put the Dom label on himself who will belittle sub men on a message board.  Doesn't happen often in person though.

quote:

You see, if I asked a provocative question about a group of people, I'd expect people in that group might be...provoked. But I wouldn't necessarily expect people not in that group to feel....anything....as I'm not talking to them.

Again, I think we're different personalities.  I wouldn't tolerate anybody speaking badly of My submissive anymore than I would if they tried talking badly about My husband.  Like most Dominants, I'm the protective type.

quote:

It's basically a matter of security. Those who are secure in themselves enough to know he's not talking about them are those who are not offended by his question. Those who are so offended by his question that they just have to jump his ass are those who, on some level, feel like he's attacking them. But hes' not.

No, it's a matter of speaking up for someone who is intimately involved in My life.  If the OP isn't talking about owned submissive males, he might want to clarify.  Something I asked him about earlier in the thread.



StuntmanMike -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 3:02:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt
Bullshit. From the OP:
quote:

But there's something about sub dudes that makes them whiny pussies and I want to know what it is.
That would be a statement.


I call bullshit to your bullshit. Here's the part in the OP that you overlooked:

quote:

I should amend this to say "Why are straight sub dudes such pussies" because it seems like the gay sub dudes I know are pretty good dudes.


And then he goes on to explain and expound. The original thought, however, was a question no doubt based on his experience.



PeonForHer -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 3:04:58 PM)

quote:


Bro. Look at what you just typed and think it over. Do you really want to equate the genuine oppression faced by the gay community with a comment on a message board about subbie dudes? I mean you seem to be one of the top tier dudes here and so I'm sure that here nobody will really call you on it, but you also seem clever enough to know in your heart what a shitty move that is.


"Bro". *Chuckle*.

TD, sorry, but you brought the analogy on yourself. It fits because you used the same habits of mind that were prevalent back then. You came across like the standard bollocks-for-brains that wandered around swallowing every prejudice that was going around during those days.

quote:


Oh and dude, on the real, "obnoxious little cretin?" So harsh! Are you angry I caught your embarrassing grammatical error on that silly little poll question you tried to post? Coz I wouldn't worry about that it could happen to a lot of people.


*Sigh*. That's right. It couldn't have been a deliberate mistake, could it? Did you notice anything about that thread title that hinted at self-deprecating humour?




PrincessofSadden -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 3:05:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TotallyDude

quote:

If a domme wants to kiss her sub's chest, then she can. Domination isn't just about whips and handcuffs. It's a state of mind and about being in control of the situation. I'll kiss my boyfriend's chest any damn time I want, as he's my sub and I get what I want when I want from him, no matter what it is.


Grrrrr! I like you Princess. Nobody puts baby in the corner!

But for real now, if all a Domme ever wants to do is just have her sub lie back languidly while she strokes his hair, she's a wimp and he's a wimp too. It doesn't mean she's not a "real Domme" or whatever and she's free to have those desires and act on them. I'm just saying, it's a wimpy little form of power exchange and it wouldn't be my cup of tea. That's all.


Well that's not your cup of tea and that's fine. Cross dressing isn't my cup of tea either when it comes to my sub's activities, but I'm not gonna go make a post about it. If you don't like something, find someone who fits the bill of what you like and move on with life. Everyone is different and unique and some people may find what you consider to be a "weak power exchange" to be just what they're looking for. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

-Princess



TotallyDude -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 3:07:08 PM)

quote:

No, it's a matter of speaking up for someone who is intimately involved in My life.  If the OP isn't talking about owned submissive males, he might want to clarify.  Something I asked him about earlier in the thread.


Oh did I not clarify that to Your satisfaction? I thought I'd answered that but I'm doing several things at once.

There is a very clear difference between owned and unowned subs which I should have made clear in my first post but it would be cheating to go back and edit it now. It's both natural and appropriate that owned subs will fit within the dynamic they find themselves. When owned, a sub (the kind of sub I don't consider a wimp) will submit both proudly and totally to his Mistress.

My complaint is with the particular kind of brokeback downward-gazing perpetually apologetic wimpy dude who slithers around spineless and behaves as though he is "submitting" to any woman who will look at/talk to/type at him. And even then understand I'm not making a moral judgment. Dudes can be like that if they want to be. But I'm still like "Tee hee hee what a pussy."



WyldHrt -> RE: Why are sub dudes such pussies? (1/30/2011 3:09:02 PM)

quote:

Are you an asshole who is prejudiced against sub men?

Even better: "Why are dominant men assholes who are prejudiced against sub men?"
Yup, still looks like a question, but doesn't ask if dominant men are assholes and prejudiced, only why they are. It also makes a sweeping and incorrect statement about dominant men.



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