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RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 9:11:29 AM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

I thought about clicking the link for a moment.  But then I noticed that one little word in the link,  OPINION, and thought better of it.

Can't handle the TRUTH about ObamaCare, eh? Typical liberal.


It's good to know that in sock puppet land opinion equals truth.

So next topic I'll go find an opinion piece which states the opposite of your position and you'll just have to accept it because as you say "opinion equals truth",  right?

(in reply to RacerJim)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 10:42:41 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

yes, you did.

Requirement to offer coverage... (did you actually read it?)

• Assess employers with more than 50 employees that do not offer coverage and have at least one fulltime
employee who receives a premium tax credit a fee of $2,000 per full-time employee, excluding the
first 30 employees from the assessment. Employers with more than 50 employees that offer coverage
but have at least one full-time employee receiving a premium tax credit, will pay the lesser of $3,000 for
each employee receiving a premium credit or $2,000 for each full-time employee. (Effective January 1,
2014)
• Exempt employers with 50 or fewer employees from any of the above penalties.
• Require employers that offer coverage to their employees to provide a free choice voucher to employees
with incomes less than 400% FPL whose share of the premium exceeds 8% but is less than 9.8% of their
income and who choose to enroll in a plan in the Exchange. The voucher amount is equal to what the
employer would have paid to provide coverage to the employee under the employer’s plan and will be
used to offset the premium costs for the plan in which the employee is enrolled. Employers providing
free choice vouchers will not be subject to penalties for employees that receive premium credits in the
Exchange. (Effective January 1, 2014)
Other requirements
• Require employers with more than 200 employees to automatically enroll employees into health
insurance plans offered by the employer. Employees may opt out of coverage.

(Page 1)




I still don't see the mandate.   Gives instructions for those that have it and incentives to have it but I just don't see the mandate.

that offer doesn't substitute for shall or will.


< Message edited by KenDckey -- 2/5/2011 11:00:50 AM >

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:06:26 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		You do understand what assess means, yes?

Perhaps not... hmm

• Assess employers with more than 50 employees that do not offer coverage and have at least one fulltime employee who receives a premium tax credit a fee of $2,000 per full-time employee, excluding the first 30 employees from the assessment. Employers with more than 50 employees that offer coverage
but have at least one full-time employee receiving a premium tax credit, will pay the lesser of $3,000 for each employee receiving a premium credit or $2,000 for each full-time employee. (Effective January 1, 2014)

Ok, on this one... employer has more than 50 employees. does not offer coverage. Just one of his employees is full time... 2000 fine per full time employee... excluding the first 30... which means he pays 2000 on 20 employees simply because one of his employees gets a premium tax credit.

Employers with more than 50 who also offer insurance, will be fined 3000 per employee... or, if its less, 2000 for each full time employee.

Now, less than 50 employees ... exempt.

50 or more, fined.

How is that different than the individual mandate?

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/5/2011 11:13:40 AM >

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(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:12:16 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/assesses

as·sess   /əˈsɛs/ Show Spelled[uh-ses] Show IPA –verb (used with object) 1. to estimate officially the value of (property, income, etc.) as a basis for taxation. 2. to fix or determine the amount of (damages, a tax, a fine, etc.): The hurricane damage was assessed at six million dollars. 3. to impose a tax or other charge on. 4. to estimate or judge the value, character, etc., of; evaluate: to assess one's efforts.


Oh   so it is a tax.  I guess it is a tax payable to insurance companies or the fed.   Whichever.   To insurance companies would be considered unconstitutional because taxes go to the federal coffers.   To the fed goes to the general fund to pay the national debt (whether it is the current bills or future ones).   Still don't see it as a mandate to provide.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:14:12 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		See above.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:17:51 AM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You do understand what assess means, yes?

Perhaps not... hmm

• Assess employers with more than 50 employees that do not offer coverage and have at least one fulltime employee who receives a premium tax credit a fee of $2,000 per full-time employee, excluding the first 30 employees from the assessment. Employers with more than 50 employees that offer coverage
but have at least one full-time employee receiving a premium tax credit, will pay the lesser of $3,000 for each employee receiving a premium credit or $2,000 for each full-time employee. (Effective January 1, 2014)

Ok, on this one... employer has more than 50 employees. does not offer coverage. Just one of his employees is full time... 2000 fine per full time employee... excluding the first 30... which means he pays 2000 on 20 employees simply because one of his employees gets a premium tax credit.

Employers with more than 50 who also offer insurance, will be fined 3000 per employee... or, if its less, 2000 for each full time employee.

Now, less than 50 employees ... exempt.

50 or more, fined.

How is that different than the individual mandate?


Pay the fine (a tax under the definition of asses) or offer insurance   is still a choice not a mandate

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:19:06 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		By your definition, so is requiring people to pay a tax or buy insurance. Still no different.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:37:59 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		yup   as well as, assuming thiss stands, the govt can then mandate how many calories you can eat, waht those calories are made of, who you buy your car from, whether you own a housse, and that the internet is a human right  

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:40:49 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		They can mandate who you can buy a car from... by exclusion.

They can mandate if you can own a house... through lending laws.

You are harping on a term instead of the reality.

Employers are mandated the same way individuals are.

Employers... offer insurance... with the provisions the law has set... or face fines.

Individuals... buy insurance... or face fines.

There is no difference between the two.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:44:04 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		And therefore no mandate

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:45:06 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Its the term you and others have used... not me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:46:06 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

yup   as well as, assuming this stands, the gov't can then mandate how many calories you can eat, what those calories are made of...


If they could mandate that, do you think that you'd still have these steadily escalating rates of obesity and type ii diabetes in your country? Would so much of your food be pumped full of high fructose corn syrup?

I suppose, in theory, an American government could mandate what goes in your food, but that's about as likely as them mandating that the second amendment only covers smoothbore muskets.

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(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:50:01 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		They are allowed to mandate taxes.   They are allowed to set standards, usually those set by industry before they become law, although not always (for industrial things).   And social behavorial things like murder, etc.

But to mandate how I spend my money is wrong.   I don't believe they have that legal authority.   Now when SCOTUS says otherwise (assuming that they do) then I guess i would be wrong.   Till then, I believe that mandating insurance is unconstitutional and intrusion into my left hip pocket.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:50:04 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		nah you cant mess with free market...companies and lobbyists and insurance companies can do what they like to your food, your water, everything around you but.. the big bad govmnt is after YOU

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(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 11:51:58 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

They are allowed to mandate taxes.   They are allowed to set standards, usually those set by industry before they become law, although not always (for industrial things).   And social behavorial things like murder, etc.

But to mandate how I spend my money is wrong.   I don't believe they have that legal authority.   Now when SCOTUS says otherwise (assuming that they do) then I guess i would be wrong.   Till then, I believe that mandating insurance is unconstitutional and intrusion into my left hip pocket.



Its no different than mandating you buy an Identification card in order to fly, cash a check, rent a car... ect ect ect.

Mandate means a requirement.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 2/5/2011 11:52:23 AM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 5:46:26 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Opinion? How about a math question then, how are low wage people supposed to be able to afford even $400 a month for healthcare? I've heard some people in this site say they pay $800-$1,200 a month for healthcare.
I had a math professor in college who said, "mathematics is not an opinion."

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(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 6:32:49 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Opinion? How about a math question then, how are low wage people supposed to be able to afford even $400 a month for healthcare? I've heard some people in this site say they pay $800-$1,200 a month for healthcare.


If we dont have good healthcare coverage for all Americans, that will be pretty tough to accomplish. 'Fortunately' we have conservative Republicans fighting every day to remove the ACA, so everyone can enjoy paying MORE money to the health insurance companies while getting less/no coverage. Because killing the ACA is the Republican's #1 job right now. Oh? You need a job and have been on unemployment for 6+ months? That's not the Republican's problem, now is it? The ACA prevents the people who hold the GOP's leash (that's no you, but big business) from making staggering profits from your suffering.

I cant speak for other states of the Union, but here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, we take care of our citizens. Only costs our yearly budget a mere 2.7% to cover 98% of the citizens. The ACA costs Americans $89.8 Billion a year. Yet, we have conservatives state we cant pay that amount, but then, fail to explain why we can pay $826 Billion on Defense. The failure is which is the bigger number (mathematically speaking). According to conservatives, its the $89.8 billion, NOT, the $826 billion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
I had a math professor in college who said, "mathematics is not an opinion."


Nor is it set up to explain things on its own. Its just a tool, like a shovel, the internet, and chemistry. On its own, it does not explain anything; but when combined with other tools, it helps us humans understand reality. For instance: 364 + 24 = 1. That doesn't look like a correct mathematical expression, correct? And that's because, I've left out on purpose, what the numbers are referring to. Now, if I entered how the math was being applied: (364 days) + (24 hours) = (1 year); you arrive at the correct understanding.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 6:56:44 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

They are allowed to mandate taxes.   They are allowed to set standards, usually those set by industry before they become law, although not always (for industrial things).   And social behavorial things like murder, etc.

But to mandate how I spend my money is wrong.   I don't believe they have that legal authority.   Now when SCOTUS says otherwise (assuming that they do) then I guess i would be wrong.   Till then, I believe that mandating insurance is unconstitutional and intrusion into my left hip pocket.



Its no different than mandating you buy an Identification card in order to fly, cash a check, rent a car... ect ect ect.

Mandate means a requirement.


The ID card requirement to fly might be federal not sure.   the ID card to cash a check or rent a car isn't.  They are company driven for risk reasons.   But not in all cases.   I don't have to give my utility company a copy of my ID everytime I pay a bill is an example there.   And I have rented vehicles but the only ID I had to provide was the drivers license of the authorized driver cause it weren't me.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 8:00:40 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
The ID card requirement to fly might be federal not sure.   the ID card to cash a check or rent a car isn't.  They are company driven for risk reasons.   But not in all cases.   I don't have to give my utility company a copy of my ID everytime I pay a bill is an example there.   And I have rented vehicles but the only ID I had to provide was the drivers license of the authorized driver cause it weren't me.


It is a require for you to show your ID/Passport to fly on domestic flights. Depends on the bank, but for the most part, any check over $10K is required to show ID/Papers (i.e. Power of Attorney).


(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 8:12:03 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
But to mandate how I spend my money is wrong.   I don't believe they have that legal authority.   Now when SCOTUS says otherwise (assuming that they do) then I guess i would be wrong.   Till then, I believe that mandating insurance is unconstitutional and intrusion into my left hip pocket.



I'm not so sure which side of the fence the Supremes are going to come down on. Not so sure at all. I think there's a very good chance they throw it out, and the whole thing goes back to Square One for the next 20 fucking years.


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(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 60
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