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RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 8:32:09 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		You know Panda   I agree.   There will be another 20 years of not figureing out what to do.   More likely longer.

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 8:40:03 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

You know Panda   I agree.   There will be another 20 years of not figureing out what to do.   More likely longer.


While the rest of the developed world, having already solved this problem decades ago, rolls along and devotes their energy and resources to other pressing issues. Effectively relegating us to wasting 50 fucking years arguing amongst ourselves about whether the world is flat and the sun revolves around the earth.


_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/5/2011 10:50:48 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Opinion? How about a math question then, how are low wage people supposed to be able to afford even $400 a month for healthcare? I've heard some people in this site say they pay $800-$1,200 a month for healthcare.
I had a math professor in college who said, "mathematics is not an opinion."


Click the link I gave him...

http://www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/finalhcr.pdf

• Provide refundable and advanceable premium credits to eligible individuals and families with incomes
between 133-400% FPL to purchase insurance through the Exchanges. The premium credits will be tied
to the second lowest cost silver plan in the area and will be set on a sliding scale such that the premium
contributions are limited to the following percentages of income for specified income levels:
Up to 133% FPL: 2% of income
133-150% FPL: 3 – 4% of income
150-200% FPL: 4 – 6.3% of income
200-250% FPL: 6.3 – 8.05% of income
250-300% FPL: 8.05 – 9.5% of income
300-400% FPL: 9.5% of income
• Increase the premium contributions for those receiving subsidies annually to reflect the excess of the
premium growth over the rate of income growth for 2014-2018. Beginning in 2019, further adjust the
premium contributions to reflect the excess of premium growth over CPI if aggregate premiums and
cost sharing subsidies exceed .54% of GDP.
• Provisions related to the premium and cost-sharing subsidies are effective January 1, 2014.

• Provide cost-sharing subsidies to eligible individuals and families. The cost-sharing credits reduce the
cost-sharing amounts and annual cost-sharing limits and have the effect of increasing the actuarial
value of the basic benefit plan to the following percentages of the full value of the plan for the specified
income level:
100-150% FPL: 94%
150-200% FPL: 87%
200-250% FPL: 73%
250-400% FPL: 70%
Does this answer your question on how people will afford it?

Not to mention...

Require most U.S. citizens and legal residents to have health insurance. Create state-based American
Health Benefit Exchanges through which individuals can purchase coverage, with premium and costsharing
credits available to individuals/families with income between 133-400% of the federal poverty
level (the poverty level is $18,310 for a family of three in 2009) and create separate Exchanges through
which small businesses can purchase coverage. Require employers to pay penalties for employees who
receive tax credits for health insurance through an Exchange, with exceptions for small employers.
Impose new regulations on health plans in the Exchanges and in the individual and small group markets.
Expand Medicaid to 133% of the federal poverty level

And......

• Create a temporary reinsurance program for employers providing health insurance coverage to retirees
over age 55 who are not eligible for Medicare. Program will reimburse employers or insurers for 80%
of retiree claims between $15,000 and $90,000. Payments from the reinsurance program will be used
to lower the costs for enrollees in the employer plan. Appropriate $5 billion to finance the program.
(Effective 90 days following enactment through January 1, 2014)

Along with...

• Provide small employers with no more than 25 employees and average annual wages of less than
$50,000 that purchase health insurance for employees with a tax credit.
– Phase I: For tax years 2010 through 2013, provide a tax credit of up to 35% of the employer’s
contribution toward the employee’s health insurance premium if the employer contributes at least
50% of the total premium cost or 50% of a benchmark premium. The full credit will be available to
employers with 10 or fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $25,000. The credit
phases-out as firm size and average wage increases. Tax-exempt small businesses meeting these
requirements are eligible for tax credits of up to 25% of the employer’s contribution toward the
employee’s health insurance premium.
– Phase II: For tax years 2014 and later, for eligible small businesses that purchase coverage through
the state Exchange, provide a tax credit of up to 50% of the employer’s contribution toward the
employee’s health insurance premium if the employer contributes at least 50% of the total premium
cost. The credit will be available for two years. The full credit will be available to employers with 10 or
fewer employees and average annual wages of less than $25,000. The credit phases-out as firm size
and average wage increases. Tax-exempt small businesses meeting these requirements are eligible
for tax credits of up to 35% of the employer’s contribution toward the employee’s health insurance
premium.

That should get you started.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/6/2011 6:45:48 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I thought you were supporthing the position taht companies do want to keep them.   In that case, beats me.   Doesn't make cost effective since.   Except in the case of where the union negotiated it.

The most cost effective health care regime is arguably in Germany. The govt. mandate is that EVERYBODY is covered and there are public (govt.) hospitals, private non-profit hospitals and private, for-profit hospitals. There are approx. 200 private profitable insurance companies, all competing with each other. There is a govt. fund to which all tax payers contribute through mandate with the end result of.....

...healthier more productive work force, with less absenteeism. (mandated 4 weeks paid vacation)
...medical care at 1/2 the cost (or less) than in the US.
...longer life span.
...ZERO private medical bankruptcies.

Except as a means for payroll deductions, this virtually removes employers from health care costs and reduces the price of all...ALL products and services and thus...obviously more competitive.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 1:12:52 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

. You don't hear CEO's jumping up and down saying "Yes, we will put our employees on the Govt' plan and not provide health care" Actually you are hearing just the opposite.


ORLY. Why dont you find a few for us.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 3:56:07 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
. You don't hear CEO's jumping up and down saying "Yes, we will put our employees on the Govt' plan and not provide health care" Actually you are hearing just the opposite.


ORLY. Why dont you find a few for us.


YEAH RLY! Actually how many companies do you know that are advocating a goverment plan because it would be better then what they have now? None, largely because there isn't a goverment plan open to the public. That concept got shot down by Republicans (you know, the 'Party of No'?).

Back in 2008 (for you extremely short termed memory conservatives), the Republicans argued that a goverment plan would destroy health insurance companies, cause massive job lost, and raise the national debt by considerable amounts. When questioned on their arugements, most journalists found it to be one thing: fearmongering. The President and Democrats had several 'chats' with Republicans towards the end of 2009 and the first three months of 2010. The Republicans stated that if the Democrates take out the plan along with a few other conditions, they'd approve and vote for the PPACA. Well, as history shows, they all voted AGAINST it. That's right folks, they went back on their own words of honor. And the only reason they went along with the 'concessions' was to make the bill weaker. Does that sound like a group that has the best interests of America, or a extreme minority at heart?

In reality, many small businesses across the country were 'for' a goverment health plan to allow their employees to get some measure of protection from medical bills. Would have created competition in the health care industry to lower its overhead, while improving on services. But who is against competition: Republicans.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 4:18:05 PM   
susan34B


Posts: 30
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline 		Reading all this only makes me glad to be in the UK where we have the National Health Service,paid for by our National Insurance contributions at a rate fixed by the Government,paid to the Government,which also provides the basic State Pension.
We've had this system for 60 years now and it seems to work reasonably well.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 6:11:55 PM   
outhere69


Posts: 1302
Joined: 1/25/2011
Status: offline 		Here are the details behind McD's new plan.  I first heard it on NPR (a long time ago, over a month at least) but couldn't remember the fine details.  The following's from factcheck.org:

"Mini-med plans are used by both small and large employers, such as McDonald’s and other restaurant companies, for low-income and part-time employees. These health plans have very limited benefits for very low monthly premiums — employees pay about $20 to $30 per month, according to Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America’s Health Insurance Plans, an industry trade association.

A mini-med plan’s basic benefits might include a prescription drug discount card and coverage for doctor’s visits. These plans can also include surgical and hospitalization benefits, but they usually include dollar limits on coverage, which can be as low as under $100 per day or more than $250,000 for the year, according to an Aug. 13 Kaiser Health News article. A McDonald’s executive said at a Dec. 1 Senate hearing that the annual caps in its mini-med plans range from $2,000 to $10,000.

The new health care law aims to eliminate low annual coverage caps like those over time, and this is where the waiver issue has come in. The law says that annual coverage limits can’t be set lower than $750,000 for new policy years starting between Sept. 23, 2010 and Sept. 23, 2011. That cap will be raised each year until 2014, when the law will require companies to have no annual spending limits on most benefits in health care plans.

Government agencies estimate that nearly 1.7 million people are on plans that have been affected by the new regulation — plans with annual limits of less than $750,000 this year."


< Message edited by outhere69 -- 2/7/2011 6:12:45 PM >

(in reply to susan34B)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 6:17:46 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: outhere69

Here are the details behind McD's new plan.  I first heard it on NPR (a long time ago, over a month at least) but couldn't remember the fine details.  The following's from factcheck.org:

"Mini-med plans are used by both small and large employers, such as McDonald’s and other restaurant companies, for low-income and part-time employees. These health plans have very limited benefits for very low monthly premiums — employees pay about $20 to $30 per month, according to Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America’s Health Insurance Plans, an industry trade association.

A mini-med plan’s basic benefits might include a prescription drug discount card and coverage for doctor’s visits. These plans can also include surgical and hospitalization benefits, but they usually include dollar limits on coverage, which can be as low as under $100 per day or more than $250,000 for the year, according to an Aug. 13 Kaiser Health News article. A McDonald’s executive said at a Dec. 1 Senate hearing that the annual caps in its mini-med plans range from $2,000 to $10,000.

The new health care law aims to eliminate low annual coverage caps like those over time, and this is where the waiver issue has come in. The law says that annual coverage limits can’t be set lower than $750,000 for new policy years starting between Sept. 23, 2010 and Sept. 23, 2011. That cap will be raised each year until 2014, when the law will require companies to have no annual spending limits on most benefits in health care plans.

Government agencies estimate that nearly 1.7 million people are on plans that have been affected by the new regulation — plans with annual limits of less than $750,000 this year."

I ran up $10000 in 3 days back in April with just a room, IV antibiotics, and pain meds. No surgery. $10K isn't fuck-all.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to outhere69)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 6:21:09 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Ohhhhhhhh but its insurance!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 7:22:57 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Ohhhhhhhh but its insurance!

Yeah, and ketchup is a vegetable.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 7:32:55 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

and ketchup is a vegetable.


I can still picture an eerily prescient t-shirt at the late, great Common Concerns bookstore in DC.

It featured Reagan's head and a bottle of ketchup.

Above them were the words "Nutrition Quiz: Which one is the vegetable?"

Of course, this was before dear Ronnie was sainted, and we were still allowed to say things like that.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/7/2011 9:55:40 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
. You don't hear CEO's jumping up and down saying "Yes, we will put our employees on the Govt' plan and not provide health care" Actually you are hearing just the opposite.


ORLY. Why dont you find a few for us.


YEAH RLY! Actually how many companies do you know that are advocating a goverment plan because it would be better then what they have now? None, largely because there isn't a goverment plan open to the public. That concept got shot down by Republicans (you know, the 'Party of No'?).

Back in 2008 (for you extremely short termed memory conservatives), the Republicans argued that a goverment plan would destroy health insurance companies, cause massive job lost, and raise the national debt by considerable amounts. When questioned on their arugements, most journalists found it to be one thing: fearmongering. The President and Democrats had several 'chats' with Republicans towards the end of 2009 and the first three months of 2010. The Republicans stated that if the Democrates take out the plan along with a few other conditions, they'd approve and vote for the PPACA. Well, as history shows, they all voted AGAINST it. That's right folks, they went back on their own words of honor. And the only reason they went along with the 'concessions' was to make the bill weaker. Does that sound like a group that has the best interests of America, or a extreme minority at heart?

In reality, many small businesses across the country were 'for' a goverment health plan to allow their employees to get some measure of protection from medical bills. Would have created competition in the health care industry to lower its overhead, while improving on services. But who is against competition: Republicans.


Bullshit. Show me a major company that is adding or improving its health care benefits.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/8/2011 5:00:12 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
In reality, many small businesses across the country were 'for' a goverment health plan to allow their employees to get some measure of protection from medical bills. Would have created competition in the health care industry to lower its overhead, while improving on services. But who is against competition: Republicans.

Bullshit. Show me a major company that is adding or improving its health care benefits.


If it was a 'major company' it wouldn't be a 'small business' now would it? Its nice to know you 'think' before you write. I never mentioned 'major companies', since they can usually get a good bargain for their employees. Small businesses on the other hand, don't fair so well. In fact, the insurance companies can put most small businesses 'over the barrel' if one or more of the employees has a specific medical condition. Hence, why I stated many small businesses were hoping there would be a goverment option. It would force insurance companies to become competitive or else lose market share.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/8/2011 9:08:45 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
In reality, many small businesses across the country were 'for' a goverment health plan to allow their employees to get some measure of protection from medical bills. Would have created competition in the health care industry to lower its overhead, while improving on services. But who is against competition: Republicans.

Bullshit. Show me a major company that is adding or improving its health care benefits.


If it was a 'major company' it wouldn't be a 'small business' now would it? Its nice to know you 'think' before you write. I never mentioned 'major companies', since they can usually get a good bargain for their employees. Small businesses on the other hand, don't fair so well. In fact, the insurance companies can put most small businesses 'over the barrel' if one or more of the employees has a specific medical condition. Hence, why I stated many small businesses were hoping there would be a goverment option. It would force insurance companies to become competitive or else lose market share.



You dont know wtf youre talking about, as always. Do you even know the definition of "small business"? Do you know that health insurance for the "small businesses" that employ most people in this country are not individually rated and wouldnt have a clue about an employee's specific medical condition?


The fact, which you were caught lying about is that you cant find a single business of any import that is adding or improving its health care benefits. The door is a one way exit right now, and will be if AbomiCare isnt changed radically.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 2/8/2011 9:10:22 AM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/8/2011 9:11:19 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Do you really know anything about insurance?  Does the bookkeeping you do for insurance peddlers ever give you a chance to look at a form?

Health insurance is not bought anywhere by anybody without you filling out every fucking thing you ever had or been done to you since birth and you sign an agreement to let them peruse your medical records before they will quote price.

You need to read up on insurance peddling too, it looks like. 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/9/2011 8:08:41 AM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

. You don't hear CEO's jumping up and down saying "Yes, we will put our employees on the Govt' plan and not provide health care" Actually you are hearing just the opposite.


ORLY. Why dont you find a few for us.


Find what , ones that want to keep their plans like I said? The evidence is overwhelming. Mc'D's to Microsoft. None of them are saying they are taking people out of their plans to opt for the gov't plan which would be less expensive to business. Go figure.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: McDonald's gives an ObamaCare Lesson - 2/9/2011 12:32:15 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

. You don't hear CEO's jumping up and down saying "Yes, we will put our employees on the Govt' plan and not provide health care" Actually you are hearing just the opposite.


ORLY. Why dont you find a few for us.


Find what , ones that want to keep their plans like I said? The evidence is overwhelming. Mc'D's to Microsoft. None of them are saying they are taking people out of their plans to opt for the gov't plan which would be less expensive to business. Go figure.

ROFLMAO. There is no government plan to opt into yet you fucking idiot.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 78
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