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Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 9:11:58 AM

truckinslave

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The West and Islam have totally incompatible values. It's incomprehensible to me that others are unable to see that clearly; perhaps the wool is slowly being lifted from the eyes of some. Multiculturalism has failed. David Cameron of the UK, speaking (primarily) of Muslim groups:

"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 9:16:22 AM

Moonhead

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But I thought the leader of the free West* was a Mooslim?

*(that Kenyan Obama chappie)

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RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 9:20:55 AM

SaintIntensity

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and I hate to break it to anyone but there isn't a practical West / Islam separation now - Islam is IN the West, so its just how it is treated and coped with that matters

the OP's anti-Muslim stance is well-known (and frequently ignores facts, but thats nothing new on here)

Cameron is just echoing recent German sentiments - so its E for effort there, Davey boy...

and there was never any wool over the eyes of most people in the UK - just a tricky balance between justifiable immigration and cutting one's own throat for the sake of political correctness - its now clear we can't afford the latter

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 3

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 9:23:20 AM

Moonhead

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It's most likely just Cameron finally finding something he can use to distinguish himself from Blair. The oaf's got a bit carried away, it seems.

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Post #: 4

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 9:24:47 AM

Phoenixpower

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SaintIntensity
Cameron is just echoing recent German sentiments - so its E for effort there, Davey boy...

funnily I had the same thought when I heard him talking this morning in breakfast news

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RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 9:30:16 AM

SaintIntensity

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He is short on ideas - and immigration is a sure-fire attention grabber

of course, these measures/ideas are rather light on "how you gonna do that, then?" - especially in a "we haven't got the money to pay anyone to do this" economy

its smoke and broken mirrors - let's see some REAL action of file under B for bollocks

we need a "tough but fair" policy - encourage immigrants that want to become part of the nation and kick the whining, lying, cheating, hypocritical ones (and there are many) out of the game completely - many are a cancer in the National Body and its never wise to leave those around...others just want the freedom to live and prosper and they are most welcome (and often needed!)

ball is in your court, Mr C - but are there any in your undies?

(in reply to Phoenixpower)

Post #: 6

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 9:38:13 AM

FullCircle

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I thought David had a background in PR, oh deary me.

The UK has a strong identity: bad weather, expensive prices and offensive humour.

Don't mess with the brand man!

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 2/5/2011 9:40:06 AM >

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RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 11:08:04 AM

Lucylastic

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Freedom of religion be damned!

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Post #: 8

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 11:24:45 AM

JohnWarren

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Hell, some branches of Christianity are totally incomparable with the ideals most of us have. That's why thinking people oppose theocracy in ANY form.

Imagine the ten commandments being enforced as law. How long to we send someone to jail for believing in a competing god? For keeping the wrong day hold? For feeling they get better results from a graven image than the invisible unspeakable one?

He misses the point. ALL religions are essentially opposed to people choosing their own government... unless, of course, it is the _right_ one.

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RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 11:26:10 AM

SaintIntensity

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oh come on, everybody loves a stoning surely?

"religious freedom" usually means "the freedom to share MY religion" - the rest is nebulous at best

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RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 11:27:27 AM

Lucylastic

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Intensity, now I have life of brian replaying in my head

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Post #: 11

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 11:27:30 AM

Moonhead

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Well yes, of course.
Unfortunately the Anglican church is basically the British conservative party with a book of hymns, so they have a tendency to stick to criticising those other religions that immigrants brought into the country with them...

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Post #: 12

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 11:43:43 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The West and Islam have totally incompatible values. It's incomprehensible to me that others are unable to see that clearly; perhaps the wool is slowly being lifted from the eyes of some. Multiculturalism has failed. David Cameron of the UK, speaking (primarily) of Muslim groups:

"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

Unlike you, Cameron can distinguish between Islam in general and extremism. The quote below can be found in your link.

"We need to be clear: Islamist extremism and Islam are not the same thing," he said.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 13

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 12:00:49 PM

ashjor911

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Well...
Immigration not just for freedom of religion not all of us are running from
Personally I will run to Germany just because I cannot complete my education there ( I am now 27)
& so far there is no freedom of speech here what so ever.
& it’s not that easy even to have a small shop or even to work.
A lot of us feel helpless but when I feel that I am no longer welcome in a country I will get out just like I did in Egypt.

(in reply to Moonhead)

Post #: 14

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/5/2011 12:07:37 PM

Moonhead

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That's a pretty common thing, sadly.
That's why it's a bit annoying when you get people like the OP misrepresenting what somebody else has said as an argument against immigration. Most immigrants don't want to bring the society they've left over here, as part of the reason they came here in the first place is that they didn't want to live in a horribly misogynistic theocracy where the ruling class likes to pretend that it's still the 14th century.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Post #: 15

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/6/2011 12:08:29 AM

GotSteel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
How long to we send someone to jail for believing in a competing god?

It's not a matter of jail, the sentence according to Deuteronomy 13:13-19 is the murder of their entire town and livestock.

(in reply to JohnWarren)

Post #: 16

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/6/2011 12:33:29 AM

tweakabelle

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From: Sydney Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The West and Islam have totally incompatible values. It's incomprehensible to me that others are unable to see that clearly; perhaps the wool is slowly being lifted from the eyes of some. Multiculturalism has failed. David Cameron of the UK, speaking (primarily) of Muslim groups:

"Let's properly judge these organisations: Do they believe in universal human rights - including for women and people of other faiths? Do they believe in equality of all before the law? Do they believe in democracy and the right of people to elect their own government? Do they encourage integration or separatism?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

The current turmoil in Egypt, Tunisia and other places in the Muslim world is about democracy, tyranny, jobs, freedom and justice. So the media tells us. So the demands of the brave protesters tell us.

I am unable to understand how any of these demands are "incompatible" with the values we Westerners like to think we hold dear. Perhaps the OP will be kind enough to lift the wool from my eyes .......

Edited using knitting needles

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/6/2011 12:36:45 AM >

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RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/6/2011 1:54:02 AM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashjor911

Well...
Immigration not just for freedom of religion not all of us are running from
Personally I will run to Germany just because I cannot complete my education there ( I am now 27)
& so far there is no freedom of speech here what so ever.
& it’s not that easy even to have a small shop or even to work.
A lot of us feel helpless but when I feel that I am no longer welcome in a country I will get out just like I did in Egypt.

I wish you the best, and I glad that you are posting here, and giving us here in the "West" a first hand look at what your life is/was like in both Egypt and the KSA.

The starter of this thread (what we call the "OP" or "Original Poster") is a rightwinger in the US. He would be a far-right-winger in Germany. They seem to be afraid of people who are not te same color, or the same religion, or even the same politics. I am what they call a "liberal". I am on my third passport, have been to 16 different countries, and enjoy meeting people of different cultures.

I AM NOT AFRAID. One of my classmates in University was an Iranian atheist. We studied calculus together, and I tutored him in chemistry. He was a great person. One of my 5 closest friends is a Republican woman. Another is a black man that I worked with at Shell starting in 1981. That's 30 years we've been friends, and I would give him the shirt off my back. He is an honorable man. Another is an HIV positive gay man. We met in German class in 2001. He needed a place to live, and I took him into my house. You get the point. Not all Americans are like the OP. Many of us judge people on who they are inside, not on trivial external things.

About the only things the OP and I have in common are language, country of birth, and color of our blood. The right-wingers in the US live in fear; I live in hope.

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(in reply to ashjor911)

Post #: 18

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/6/2011 1:56:42 AM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
How long to we send someone to jail for believing in a competing god?

It's not a matter of jail, the sentence according to Deuteronomy 13:13-19 is the murder of their entire town and livestock.

NO way. Especially if it's grass fed beef. No way am I destroying fine beef like that.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to GotSteel)

Post #: 19

RE: Cameron on Islam v. the West - 2/6/2011 9:42:22 AM

ashjor911

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Thank you Hippiekinkster for your kind words
I wish you the best to for you third passport

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

Post #: 20

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