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ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Yay! Another Knight in shining armor here to save all of the poor helpless women from themselves.
I gotta tell ya...men who write and believe all of this crap are the biggest red flags to me.
It says to me that the only women they can get are women that make poor choices.

I can't believe I wasted time on my lunch break to read another thread just like the poor newbie woman thread.

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

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ORIGINAL: frazzle

Not sure where you're finding all these subs with esteem issues.

Nearly every sub i know has no problem with self esteem, and neither are they abuse victims.

Most are adults who've lived life, not 18 year olds looking for a first date.

This just reads to me, like "white knight" is going to gallop up and rescue us from ourselves.

Thanks. You just saved me some keystrokes. I think we should start a section of the forum called Warnings from White Knights. That way, there would be a clearinghouse for these types of threads and all the subs with low self esteem could have a support group there.

In my experience, adults do not need to be told that you need both compatibility and chemistry. Most adults learn from their mistakes and are able to discern these things without some guy preaching.

Do you ever read the profiles on this site? You should to get an idea of what's out there. I know you probably have your whole coterie of "lifestyle" friends that are all perfectly well-adjusted and led idyllic lives growing up within the quintessential American dream family but take a minute to check out some of the dreck that's on CM.

The whole White Knight thing (new to me so thanks for that) seems a bit silly when all I did was express a point of view that all the so-called "lifestylers" out there who think their version of dungeons and dragons in assless chaps or whatever is REAL D/s and everything else isn't are as full of it as any other dogmatic crapola (like white knights perhaps.)

Don't get caught up in the hype. D/s is no more special or unique than any other life choice.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose
And yet there are people on this thread who have said in their own experiences they've forgotten this simple thing. When someone comes into this and the first people they meet say "don't question anything. That's not what a sub does." And that's all they hear, they think "Oh that's the way it is." It's not like people coming into D/s have a basis for comparison. It's just like any other cult (to pick a word) where what you learn is what you grow to believe. A lot of subs think that even questioning what a dom says is wrong. My post is to them. If you're aware then good for you. But trust me, there are plenty of subs who aren't.

The thing is, yes, they do.  There isn't a single non fiction book on My shelf that has the included opinion of "Don't ask questions" included in it's pages.  Many BDSM groups have sigs specifically geared to submissives and those new to the lifestyle that teach the complete opposite to the above.

Now, when was the last time that you experienced what you are saying happens at your local munch group?  If you did overhear this in person, that's where you should have had your involvement.  Not here where you're dealing with folks that run the spectrum of experience.

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose

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ORIGINAL: sexyred1

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ORIGINAL: frazzle

Not sure where you're finding all these subs with esteem issues.

Nearly every sub i know has no problem with self esteem, and neither are they abuse victims.

Most are adults who've lived life, not 18 year olds looking for a first date.

This just reads to me, like "white knight" is going to gallop up and rescue us from ourselves.

Thanks. You just saved me some keystrokes. I think we should start a section of the forum called Warnings from White Knights. That way, there would be a clearinghouse for these types of threads and all the subs with low self esteem could have a support group there.

In my experience, adults do not need to be told that you need both compatibility and chemistry. Most adults learn from their mistakes and are able to discern these things without some guy preaching.

Do you ever read the profiles on this site? You should to get an idea of what's out there. I know you probably have your whole coterie of "lifestyle" friends that are all perfectly well-adjusted and led idyllic lives growing up within the quintessential American dream family but take a minute to check out some of the dreck that's on CM.

The whole White Knight thing (new to me so thanks for that) seems a bit silly when all I did was express a point of view that all the so-called "lifestylers" out there who think their version of dungeons and dragons in assless chaps or whatever is REAL D/s and everything else isn't are as full of it as any other dogmatic crapola (like white knights perhaps.)

Don't get caught up in the hype. D/s is no more special or unique than any other life choice.

Wow...ok, let me take this one step at a time for your clarification:

1. I have read many profiles from Doms and subs alike. I find many, MANY more delusional, angry, negative and over the top ones from the male Doms. Your opinion of what constitutes a "dreck" profile and my opinion, are simply that, our opinions.
2. I don't have "lifestyle" friends, I have friends. I don't consider this a lifestyle, it is part of what I and many others do as part of our overall lives. I cannot stand the term lifestyle; it is right up there with subbies.
3. You don't get it, do you. There are adults on this adult site. Adults don't need basic advice on how to deal with other human beings. If you do, then you back away from the computer, from the "lifestyle" and you figure out how to discern compatibility with others. I hear from my respected sub posters on this thread that many do feel that if even one person benefits from these "warnings" then it was all worth it; and I concede that may be so. But I maintain that most, MOST people do not need basic courses on human etiquette or trusting their instincts. Barring such things as sub frenzy and Dom frenzy, that is.
4. I agree, do not get caught up in the hype, if you think there is hype. D/s as we have determined over and over and over again does not make someone have mythical powers or expectations thereof.

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose

Thanks. It's not that they want to be squished. It's that they may have self-esteem issues (since a HUGE number of the profiles I see on here are from submissives that have a history of body-consciousness issues, or mental, physical or sexual abuse issues - clearly something leads submissives to this in most cases) and when that is exploited because a dom is too afraid to empower their submissive by treating them well then it continues that cycle of degradation and abuse.

Obviously, some do rise up and have a few bad experiences and move on but there are a great number who just believe that "that's the way it is with D/s" and that's just b.s. (not D/s) lol

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose

Do you ever read the profiles on this site? You should to get an idea of what's out there. I know you probably have your whole coterie of "lifestyle" friends that are all perfectly well-adjusted and led idyllic lives growing up within the quintessential American dream family but take a minute to check out some of the dreck that's on CM.

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose

I see a lot of Doms and subs on here preaching about how D/s should be pursued this way or that way like it's some kind of very specific predetermined Jedi religion or something. I just wanted to make a general post for all new subs in particular who are venturing into this world. There is no WAY of D/s. There's only what works for you and your respective partners. A lot of people seem to forget that for a D/s relationship to work it's just like any other relationship. You have to be compatible. You have to find someone with whom you have similar interests - someone in whom you can trust and for whom you can have respect.

So, if you're brand new, and someone starts out trying to "break" you (or whatever other nonsensical term a lot of doms try to use) and it doesn't feel like what you want. Guess what? It's probably NOT a good fit for you. And when they try to shame you and belittle you by saying, "this is THE WAY it's done." If it doesn't feel like the WAY it should be done with you then it's not right for you.

Your formative experiences in D/s are going to really shape how you pursue all this so if you start out with abusive jerks who only know how to crush the existence of meek little doormats you're going to become one of those meek little doormats and miss out on a lot of what is really exciting and fullfilling about your journey...

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ORIGINAL: lally2

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose
Your formative experiences in D/s are going to really shape how you pursue all this so if you start out with abusive jerks who only know how to crush the existence of meek little doormats you're going to become one of those meek little doormats and miss out on a lot of what is really exciting and fullfilling about your journey...

first of all  [sm=welcomewave.gif]

i wouldnt necessarily agree with the blue bit though - just for the sake of discussion [:)]

a number of people do access this, overly keen to submit to the wrong people (for them) and invariably get burnt.  but ive seen common sense prevail far more often than not and those people emerge from being squished and grow into someone stronger and firmer on their path as a result.

in fact, i would say that im one of them up to a point.  i never let anyone squish me and i never will.

the learning curve here can be steep and a rocky climb for some, but ive seen little evidence of people being squished into doormats.  it can happen and im not saying it doesnt, but often those who are being squished want to be squished, those that dont tend to move on.

the term 'doormat' is an odd one here.  in a way it has more of a place in vanilla land to be honest.  here some people do in fact identifywith being a doormat and dont see anything wrong with it.

.... but great post.

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I also agree that it doesn't give someone mythical powers no matter how many times they include the words wolf, raven, lord, god, or thunder in your screenname.

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose
Thank you for making my point. People here run the spectrum of experience. And sorry to say, a lot of people have lives that most certainly don't include buying BDSM related books or going to munches. A lot of people prefer to (shockingly I know) keep their interest in all this extremely private. Therefore, sites like CM are their outlets for information.

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ORIGINAL: osf

what's a doormat and aren't they entitled to doms too?

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ORIGINAL: osf

new rule

for the next 48 hours the word doormat is banned

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ORIGINAL: graceadieu

There's something you ought to keep in mind..... a lot of the more ridiculous female-submissive profiles (other types too, but that's what you're looking at) on the flip-side here are just fantasies.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Only if we get to put white knights into the temp ban as well.

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose

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ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Yay! Another Knight in shining armor here to save all of the poor helpless women from themselves.
I gotta tell ya...men who write and believe all of this crap are the biggest red flags to me.
It says to me that the only women they can get are women that make poor choices.

I can't believe I wasted time on my lunch break to read another thread just like the poor newbie woman thread.

Believe me, I'm just as frustrated you wasted your lunch break to respond with exactly the kind of "My BDSM is better than your BDSM" nonsense to which I was originally referring.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose
Thank you for making my point. People here run the spectrum of experience. And sorry to say, a lot of people have lives that most certainly don't include buying BDSM related books or going to munches. A lot of people prefer to (shockingly I know) keep their interest in all this extremely private. Therefore, sites like CM are their outlets for information.

You actually skipped answering My question.  When was the last time you ran into the situation that you described in the real world, rather than on the net?

See, I don't actually read a lot of submissive profiles.  I happen to think that profiles have just as much chance of being reality as fantasy.  I also get the not every submissive profile has much to do with being submissive at all.  (We won't even discuss the debate of gender being accurate.)

What I do read here, are many comments by strong, confident folks who identify as submissive.  Ones that are quick to debunk myths and put people straight quick.  If CM is a person's only source for information (foolish idea, but I'll give it to you) they can find it, and find it quickly.  Frankly, the female submissives that are right here on this very thread do a damn fine job of it.  They've got a pretty good bullshit detector and more than have the ability to help those that are new.

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ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

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ORIGINAL: Choosingtochoose

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ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Yay! Another Knight in shining armor here to save all of the poor helpless women from themselves.
I gotta tell ya...men who write and believe all of this crap are the biggest red flags to me.
It says to me that the only women they can get are women that make poor choices.

I can't believe I wasted time on my lunch break to read another thread just like the poor newbie woman thread.

Believe me, I'm just as frustrated you wasted your lunch break to respond with exactly the kind of "My BDSM is better than your BDSM" nonsense to which I was originally referring.

Ha! I've been here long enough that the regulars know damn well that I'm the last person to pull the "My BDSM is better than your BDSM" card.
For the record...when I came here six years ago, I had virtually no life experience in anything bdsm related other than a few kinky things that occured sporadically in my now defunct marriage.
This was my only source of info and I am extremely private in what we do. We don't go to public spaces or munches. It's who we are.
Even when I was in the throws of sub frenzy in the beginning, I never lost sight of the fact that I was dealing with people and not roles or fantasies.

I have a hard time justifying people who either forget basic life skills such as remembering to take into account chemistry and compatibility when looking for a partner. I have an even harder time with those who I haven't figured out how they've gotten to the age they have and haven't figured out the basics of things a normally functioning person figures out by late teens.

When I see someone that rides on in here spouting out the obvious of what a functional adult should know, I point it out.
It's only my opinion and what works for me won't work for many others, but I've been in a relationship now for over three years and haven't had the bad experiences that so many seem to have. And I'm certainly not any more enlightened or know some special trick. It's just common sense.

I personally think that people who have dysfunctional bdsm relationships also have dysfunctional vanilla relationships. If someone is weak enough to allow a dominant man or woman to walk all over them or abuse them without question just because of their "roles" then they're going to allow a vanilla date to do the same.