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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/18/2011 5:39:38 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Possibly, but this new development combined with the vicious public beating and rape of a foreign reporter while the mob attacking her chanted Jew! Jew! Jew! could be an early glimpse into the new ruling class there.

Just, possibly. All I am saying.



All you are saying is what FOX News whispered into your ear.

The same scumbags that supported our invasion of Iraq on the basis of spreading democracy in the Middle East are now telling us how dangerous democracy is.

You reap what you sow.


It might be a bit more subtle than that. It's not that democracy per se is an issue - it's more that those pesky Ay-rabs have a habit of electing the wrong people. So obviously they aren't ready for democracy yet.

Look at what happened in Gaza. Those damn Palestinians went and elected someone honest (!), someone they thought might actually represent their interests instead of ours. Like, how dare they? As if anyone cared what they think! Look at all the trouble the poor Israelis had to go to just to put that mess right.

Who is responsible for putting these grandiose ideas in their heads? Haven't they read the script we went to so much trouble creating for them? So how can we trust them to do the right thing? I often wonder if this is connected with the way they write kinda upside down and backwards .......

Democracy is wonderful - but far too precious to go sharing it with every Tom Dick and Mohammed. That'd be just plain in-Sanity!


Edited with the kind assistance of Mme la Farge

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 2/18/2011 5:56:43 PM >

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/18/2011 5:49:31 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Where is it written that a democracy must be good? Is there any reason why a duly elected representative government and it’s people can’t be a danger to other nations?

I don’t believe that the men who assaulted the reporter represent the majority of Egyptians…but it does represent the lawlessness in the country.

We should be worried about the future government of Egypt and its policies. To ignore the threat to the whole of the middle east would be irresponsible don’t you think.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/18/2011 6:02:22 PM   
Sanity


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In-sanity would you, trying to attribute words to me which I never wrote.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
It might be a bit more subtle than that. It's not that democracy per se is an issue - it's more that those pesky Ay-rabs have a habit of electing the wrong people. So obviously they aren't ready for democracy yet.

Look at what happened in Gaza. Those damn Palestinians went and elected someone honest (!), someone they thought might actually represent their interests instead of ours. Like, how dare they? As if anyone cared what they think! Look at all the trouble the poor Israelis had to go to just to put that mess right.

Who is responsible for putting these grandiose ideas in their heads? Haven't they read the script we went to so much trouble creating for them? So how can we trust them to do the right thing? I often wonder if this is connected with the way they write kinda upside down and backwards .......

Democracy is wonderful - but far too precious to go sharing it with every Tom Dick and Mohammed. That'd be just plain in-Sanity!


Edited with the kind assistance of Mme la Farge


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/18/2011 6:30:04 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

In-sanity would you, trying to attribute words to me which I never wrote.



Are you sure you aren't flattering yourself? In order to eliminate this possibility, could you please point out which particular words you imagine I am "trying to attribute" to you?

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 5:48:48 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Where is it written that a democracy must be good? Is there any reason why a duly elected representative government and it’s people can’t be a danger to other nations?

It isn't written anywhere. (In fact, the duly elected representative government you put in power in 2000 turned out to be a danger to Iraq, and did little to improve matters in the UK, Germany and Spain as well.)
However given all of the talk in your country about the importance of liberating the world through the spread of democracy, the fact that you've spent so much time busily deposing democratically elected leaders and replacing them with dictators or theocrats who can be trusted to do as they're told does make pretty much every administration you've had since Eisenhower's look like a pack of two faced hypocritical shits who think the peons in the bannana republics and vassal states aren't entitled to any of the benefits they cite to justify sticking their noses into other countries' business.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 6:11:36 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Where is it written that a democracy must be good? Is there any reason why a duly elected representative government and it’s people can’t be a danger to other nations?

I don’t believe that the men who assaulted the reporter represent the majority of Egyptians…but it does represent the lawlessness in the country.

We should be worried about the future government of Egypt and its policies. To ignore the threat to the whole of the middle east would be irresponsible don’t you think.


The lawlessness?

So it is preferable that we have a dictator in power to control the people?

Isn't that the exact opposite of the spin by conservatives after it became obvious there were not WMD's in Iraq.

We were told we went in to fight for freedom and democracy.

I guess freedom and democracy are only good when it suits our interests.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 6:13:02 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Where is it written that a democracy must be good? Is there any reason why a duly elected representative government and it’s people can’t be a danger to other nations?

I don’t believe that the men who assaulted the reporter represent the majority of Egyptians…but it does represent the lawlessness in the country.

We should be worried about the future government of Egypt and its policies. To ignore the threat to the whole of the middle east would be irresponsible don’t you think.


Am I right or wrong in thinking if it were not for the fact that the Middle East is where the oil comes from, America would not give a shit what happens over there ?

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Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 6:19:33 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Where is it written that a democracy must be good? Is there any reason why a duly elected representative government and it’s people can’t be a danger to other nations?

It isn't written anywhere. (In fact, the duly elected representative government you put in power in 2000 turned out to be a danger to Iraq, and did little to improve matters in the UK, Germany and Spain as well.)
However given all of the talk in your country about the importance of liberating the world through the spread of democracy, the fact that you've spent so much time busily deposing democratically elected leaders and replacing them with dictators or theocrats who can be trusted to do as they're told does make pretty much every administration you've had since Eisenhower's look like a pack of two faced hypocritical shits who think the peons in the bannana republics and vassal states aren't entitled to any of the benefits they cite to justify sticking their noses into other countries' business.




Perhaps this also has bearing with the much hated immigration some on here continually grind on about, America would indeed look attractive compared to a persons own country if a dictator loyal to the US was running it. What is it, the American way is only for the Americans and to appear to have the American way, it is a carrot dangled in front of others noses and cruelly moved away, no one else can have it, which also serves another purpose, it makes the Americans believe they are free.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 6:52:18 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Am I right or wrong in thinking if it were not for the fact that the Middle East is where the oil comes from, America would not give a shit what happens over there ?


That's most of it, but you're forgetting Israel.
Obama hasn't come out and taken them to task for their handling of the occupied territories yet (possibly because he was worried about the bile that the Israelis directed at him when he mentioned it in passing during the IDF's most recent rampage through Palestine last year...)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 7:11:53 AM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		And the west in order to get that oil favourably has been manipulating the governance of the area for years, perhaps it is what we are geting, is what we deserve, we are reaping what we have sown. That being the relative wealth the west festered in for years was wealth at other's expense, our comfort in exchange for others discomfort, I wonder, did those others get a say in this, well, perhaps they are saying now and we need to listen.

Israel, whether we like it or not, that situation is a thorn in the side of  the west, and is hindering any agreement in the region.Perhaps even Israel has become a catalyst for continued disagreement.

The only way I see as a way forward, is Israel be pressured into adopting multiculturism, or compromise, or I fear, the Arabs in the region will one day carry out their threat. But, if the latter happened, would the west care if it meant an easing of relations with those who hold that oh so important commodity that can literally make leaders of break them.

I believe when Obama at his election said he was seeking less reliance on oil by seeking an alternative energy source, he was doing something fresh and different from all the tossers before, for he could see the root of the US's problem ; Middle Eastern oil. The things that could be done to make America better are always on the back burner, because the oil just has to be got first, so all resources go into that tired old battle ad finitim, until someone brave bucks the system and finds a better way of living.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 7:23:06 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Israel, whether we like it or not, that situation is a thorn in the side of  the west, and is hindering any agreement in the region.Perhaps even Israel has become a catalyst for continued disagreement.

I'm not sure the latter is true. How do you think the more progressive Islamic countries in the middle east (Jordan, Qatar and Turkey spring to mind, for a start) would be faring if Israel wasn't there to give the twats in Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran something else to fixate on instead?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:02:38 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		"Every major news organization worldwide has reported the Muslim Brotherhood as playing only a minor part"

Every major news organization worldwide reported every major intelligence agency as saying Iraq had WMDs.



_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:07:59 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Carter never met a dictator he didn't like.

The similarities between him and 0bama0 continue to grow.
2012 may be 1980 on meth.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 213
RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:11:05 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		They have now tested their delivery method, no missile required.
Yet another reason their nuclear program must be destroyed posthaste.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 214
RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:12:24 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		Damn I woulda voted reagan for that, arms for hostages, mubarek, bin lauden, saddam, and so on.     

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:26:58 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Israel, whether we like it or not, that situation is a thorn in the side of  the west, and is hindering any agreement in the region.Perhaps even Israel has become a catalyst for continued disagreement.

I'm not sure the latter is true. How do you think the more progressive Islamic countries in the middle east (Jordan, Qatar and Turkey spring to mind, for a start) would be faring if Israel wasn't there to give the twats in Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran something else to fixate on instead?


Yeah, true, but the situation cannot go on, for it is either a solution, or an alternative source of energy that permits the west to keep what it has, as everything else, is more of the same, and it appears the world is getting fed up with more of the same. The world, well, the developed world is just treading water, it has been doing for years.

When Afghanistan and Iraq are finally finished, do you think the west will accept any more military expeditions in this life time ?

I mean the last ones were a bit naughty, illegal possibly based on half truths and downright lies and the objective was forever changing, it still is, which makes these wars seem kind of unwholesome and people know it, will the population have stomach for more wars to get at other country's wealth in future, or is the cost just too much ?


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:36:10 AM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		Actually, Afghanistan was (at least initially) more or less justified: the CIA's errant former client bin Laden was holed up there (before he fled over the border to hide in Pakistan instead), and they had technically gone in after him, so there wasn't really a problem with that one.
What they're still doing there now is trickier to justify, but the last time I checked there was still a UN presence, unlike Iraq which is just Americans and the cannon fodder we provide them with.

I'd also question a couple of other terms you use: "when" (as in "When Afghanistan and Iraq are finally finished...") rather than "if" and "war" which hasn't actually been declared in either case.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:39:29 AM   
Anaxagoras


Posts: 3086
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From: Eire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Possibly, but this new development combined with the vicious public beating and rape of a foreign reporter while the mob attacking her chanted Jew! Jew! Jew! could be an early glimpse into the new ruling class there.

Just, possibly. All I am saying.


All you are saying is what FOX News whispered into your ear.

The same scumbags that supported our invasion of Iraq on the basis of spreading democracy in the Middle East are now telling us how dangerous democracy is.

You reap what you sow.

According to some it seems Israel and the Jews are to blame for the Iraqi war as well. It seems they are to blame for it all.

The vicious sexual attack http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/02/18/2743036/cbs-lara-logan-called-jew-in-attacks-by-egyptian-thugs reminds me of a call which garnered some support a few years ago in Egypt for Arab men to sexually assault Jewish women as part of the psychological war against Israel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAbYodZ7Fp4

According to Anerin:
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
Israel, whether we like it or not, that situation is a thorn in the side of the west, and is hindering any agreement in the region.Perhaps even Israel has become a catalyst for continued disagreement.

The only way I see as a way forward, is Israel be pressured into adopting multiculturism, or compromise, or I fear, the Arabs in the region will one day carry out their threat.

The notion that Israel doesn't embrace multi-culturalism when Arabic is one of its two official languages is laughable when many regional states don't even allow Jews any entry and/or ban any economic dealings with them. The fact of the matter is that Israel is used as a deflection by Islamic principally-Arab states in the region, a cause to unite all. This was proven by Wikileaks which showed these same states which incite against Israel were far more afraid of a nuclear Iran.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
It might be a bit more subtle than that. It's not that democracy per se is an issue - it's more that those pesky Ay-rabs have a habit of electing the wrong people. So obviously they aren't ready for democracy yet.

Look at what happened in Gaza. Those damn Palestinians went and elected someone honest (!), someone they thought might actually represent their interests instead of ours. Like, how dare they? As if anyone cared what they think! Look at all the trouble the poor Israelis had to go to just to put that mess right.

One the other thread Tweakabelle was giving out about Netanyahu not accepting a peace process with open arms but at the same time seems to think Hamas represent the interests of the Palestinians more so than Fatah! This is the same Hamas which the people of Gaza elected on a mandate of continuing conflict. This is what I mean by double-standards in the pro-Palestinian camp. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012600372.html


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
That's most of it, but you're forgetting Israel.
Obama hasn't come out and taken them to task for their handling of the occupied territories yet (possibly because he was worried about the bile that the Israelis directed at him when he mentioned it in passing during the IDF's most recent rampage through Palestine last year...)

Maybe it’s a misunderstanding but it seems Moonhead is very wrong indeed. There was no “rampage” (colourful word that) through Palestine last year. The only significant conflict in recent years was Cast Lead in Gaza two years ago.

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RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:42:49 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		You are in large measure right, of course; who gives a shit what happens in Bali? Doesn't affect me, or you.

But you will be increasingly wrong in the future. We cannot ignore the threat to life on earth that the UAN and Muslim nukes pose.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 219
RE: What is the Muslim Brotherhood - 2/19/2011 8:45:44 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		The United Animal Nations have no nukes.  Muslims have no more nukes than Christians do.

What do you propose we do then? Hyperbole?  Grand speeches? 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 220
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