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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/13/2011 7:33:36 PM

MaxsGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ImaginativeWhims

The Dominant knows in their heart and mind that when "No limits" is listed, that He has the power of life itself over the submissive. A true Dom gets off on the knowing of this information and having it, not taking advantage of it and actually killing his pet.

The Submissive knows in their heart and mind that when they list "No limits", that their Master has the power of life itself over them. They will get off heavily on the knowing of this information because the fear and thrill of it being pushed too far is the entire point... not necessarily the action itself.

That is not remotely the case in my (no limits, no safeword) relationship.

quote:

The surrender of the Safe Word is the highest possible level of connection and trust between the D and the s, but it comes at a price... I'll throw down an old saying, that seems to apply to just about everything.

"With great power comes great responsibility."

That certainly is true, though.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/13/2011 8:21:17 PM

LPslittleclip

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in the dynamic i share with my Mistress She and i always have the ablity to say no as does the rest of the poly family. as far a tpe i trust my Mistress not to do permanent harm to me so i will do as She says and accept what She does to me as it pleases Her

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/13/2011 9:28:48 PM

NihilusZero

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Also note that "total" and "permanent" are not synonymous. A relationship could last 3 months and, in that time frame, have adequately qualified as APE/TPE.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/13/2011 10:58:10 PM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PurpleCoconut

On the boards I have heard people referring to "total power exchange" or having "no limits", but I am wondering ... is this ever really the case?

Greetings,

If you take your question outside of the context given and consider it in a different frame - whereby anything is possible even if it's unrealistic or unfathomable in ones mind - the answer is crystal clear.

quote:

I mean, you will always still have power ... if a Master/Mistress does something that you REALLY do not like, or whatever ... surely there is always the option of walking out, or of leaving? It might be difficult, but you always still have some degree of power?

You needn't engage in a power exchange to recognize the reality of people remaining in situations they do not like for reasons that exceed the feelings mentioned beforehand. Of course other options exist, but perhaps their commitment to the individual, inconvenience, or other circumstances warrant their desire to stay. If this is true of those outside of kink it isn't a difficult leap to make within these circles.

quote:

The same with no limits ... if, for example, a Master/Mistress does something that you realise is something you simply can't go through with - you can say no, and if they ignore your wishes, walk away?

The interesting thing about the debates regarding limits is the likelihood of ones limits being disregarded or intentionally trampled upon through interactions outside of the dynamics mentioned far more than the exchange itself. How often do individuals walk away when the opportunity presents itself if the cost is far greater than the freedom it provides?

I intentionally responded in this manner to illustrate the misinterpretation of concepts that are supposedly unique to BDSM that are in existence in our environment but merely demonstrated on a different scale in the community.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 1:33:42 AM

IronBear

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Total power exchange is a funny beast and is as illusive as leprechauns.In the simplest form for med ity is a situation afdter a slave and I have discussed what we both want and limits. Then she tells me she wants a strong sadistic Master to break her to his will so she can be part of him and he has control over her being. Now at first glance, this seems so way out it is impossible or at the least improbable. Yet few things are really impossible and the improbable is far more common than most folks realize. If one has a good dose of common sence and humaniuty as well as a gen uine interest in the slave and her health areas, it is quite possible to accomplish this. It is called conditioning which can in fact be done leaving "tags' for maintenance later or to deprogram what needs deprogramming. Now there will be those who will deny that this is TPE but to them I say ...WRONG... The techniques I use may not be to their liking or outside their ken but in effect when the slave handed herself over to be "broken" (I do so hate that term in these areas), she was exchanging her normal powers of choices and exchanging them for mine. That is to say her will became (in time) a-tuned with mine so we are mostly on the same page. people who have lived together for decades (trasditional husbands and wives) often find that this happens so they are able to complete the others sentences. TPE.... I would only argue that there is not that much power involved..

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 3:50:55 AM

DarkSteven

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There've been some excellent posts above, notably the one from my girlfriend LBP about TPE being a relationship that should be evolved into.

I'd just like to add that it is NOT a no limits relationship. It's one in which the Dom/me holds all the limits. It should without saying that no s type should enter such a relationship casually.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 5:31:44 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PurpleCoconut

Hi,

I'm very new to the scene, and so am still very much learning. I do apologise if this is a stupid question, but I am curious, and keen to learn as much as I possibly can :)

On the boards I have heard people referring to "total power exchange" or having "no limits", but I am wondering ... is this ever really the case? I mean, you will always still have power ... if a Master/Mistress does something that you REALLY do not like, or whatever ... surely there is always the option of walking out, or of leaving? It might be difficult, but you always still have some degree of power?

The same with no limits ... if, for example, a Master/Mistress does something that you realise is something you simply can't go through with - you can say no, and if they ignore your wishes, walk away?

Perhaps I am being naive, but I realise this could be a possibility, and am keen to educate myself :)

Thank you for reading, and hopefully, replying!

Psychologically, because of the mind set one is in as a 'no limits' slave, yes psychologically it may be extremely difficult to walk away. But physically? Unless he has you hanging over the edge of the Rockies by your hair I would say anyone can walk away.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 5:35:43 AM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Total power exchange is a funny beast and is as illusive as leprechauns.In the simplest form for med ity is a situation afdter a slave and I have discussed what we both want and limits. Then she tells me she wants a strong sadistic Master to break her to his will so she can be part of him and he has control over her being. Now at first glance, this seems so way out it is impossible or at the least improbable. Yet few things are really impossible and the improbable is far more common than most folks realize. If one has a good dose of common sence and humaniuty as well as a gen uine interest in the slave and her health areas, it is quite possible to accomplish this. It is called conditioning which can in fact be done leaving "tags' for maintenance later or to deprogram what needs deprogramming. Now there will be those who will deny that this is TPE but to them I say ...WRONG... The techniques I use may not be to their liking or outside their ken but in effect when the slave handed herself over to be "broken" (I do so hate that term in these areas), she was exchanging her normal powers of choices and exchanging them for mine. That is to say her will became (in time) a-tuned with mine so we are mostly on the same page. people who have lived together for decades (trasditional husbands and wives) often find that this happens so they are able to complete the others sentences. TPE.... I would only argue that there is not that much power involved..

I agree with this. The closer to TPE the less control and indeed the less submission required. As a slave there need be no submission although submissives often think that it's like a promotion.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 5:45:34 AM

lally2

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im going to hang with the 'conditioning' argument here:

as IB has said, when youve spent a time together inevitable adaptation results in a state of conditioning, habit almost and you become so used to being with that person and how that person is that whatever it is youve agreed between the two of you is second nature.

ill stick my neck out here and attempt to suggest that the long standing relationship, some of which have been represented on this thread by the people involved and who have posted, have reached such a point of understanding, adaptation and conditioning that, within the remit of Ms, Ds and TPE it has become a natural and flowing thing.

we shouldnt forget that there are many many relationships that set out to be Ms and TPE that just dont make it and are often represented on boards like this, that possibly misrepresent what can be and often is achieved successfully if you hang in there for long enough.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 8:54:49 AM

IronBear

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lally & Prinsexx I love you both....... Come live with me..

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 9:35:09 AM

DesFIP

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He doesn't get off on snuff fantasies. Despite IW's beliefs.
And as it happens, he has limits also.

Plus there are always areas which nobody will agree to. Nobody's going to commit to some guy who insists on raping her or his offspring or furry friends. And if he says he won't do something and then in three months says "Ah ha, I lied, and now you're no limits so I will cut off your arm", he's going to be looking at an empty room.

We don't usually commit to total strangers. We commit to people we believe we know, whose word we believe we can trust, whose ethics and morals we believe align with our own. And by picking a trustworthy, honorable, decent person then all the health and safety limits will already be included. As to the other, more individual ones such as poly or being loaned out? Why would someone opposed to that get into a relationship where there would be endless friction and lack of compatibility? From both sides of the kneel. A guy who gets off on loaning out his girl isn't going to want to pick one who will scream and cry for weeks every time he tries to do this. A woman who isn't interested in having this happen won't pick someone who says it's top of his hit parade.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 10:06:22 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
I agree with this. The closer to TPE the less control and indeed the less submission required. As a slave there need be no submission although submissives often think that it's like a promotion.

I have to say that this statement totally and completely baffles me. Perhaps Carol isn't a "slave". Perhaps we're not TPE. Or maybe I use a radically different definition of "submission". Most likely all three of those. What I can say for certain is that our dynamic rests on our natural dispositions of dominant and submissive.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 10:16:38 AM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
I agree with this. The closer to TPE the less control and indeed the less submission required. As a slave there need be no submission although submissives often think that it's like a promotion.
I have to say that this statement totally and completely baffles me.

I think the point she's getting at is that, in relationships that are not validated by conflict/correction (and from the s-type's point of view who is working on being able to yield more naturally), the journey is about getting to a place where things flow seamlessly and the exertions of "submission" and "dominance" (as concerted acts/thoughts) becomes less necessary because things settle into a fluid cycle.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 10:30:04 AM

osf

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both have to acknowledge why they are there and act accordingly

it's not hard to be dominant or submissive if that's what you are in context

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 10:33:00 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
I think the point she's getting at is that, in relationships that are not validated by conflict/correction (and from the s-type's point of view who is working on being able to yield more naturally), the journey is about getting to a place where things flow seamlessly and the exertions of "submission" and "dominance" (as concerted acts/thoughts) becomes less necessary because things settle into a fluid cycle.

OK, I think I got that. So what we're saying here is that when the D/s bond is working flawlessly then it's no longer D/s? This has GOT to be tied into consensual non-consent somehow.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 11:48:58 AM

IronBear

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Please Jeff, lets try this from another angle, albeit from a Military one. In any unit be it large or small and elite. there is a strict power and authority hierachy. So as the unit becomes close knit from many conflicts with an enemy and each member learns more about hos mates and trust develops because you always look after your mates and they look after you. A form of unspoken language develops and most of you are able to know in advance what the leader (Dominant) will do next or under most sets of circumstances. Overt Authority disappears (unless under the scrutiny of outsiders --- senior officers). The unit works seamlessly so there is no time nor place for the parade ground stuff. you just are not showing the discipline which is still there underneath. Sounds like you and Carol are in that happy zone where the conflict you seem to think is there, is not.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 11:50:31 AM

MasterSlaveLA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PurpleCoconut

I have heard people referring to "total power exchange" or having "no limits", but I am wondering ... is this ever really the case?

It's as "real" and as "total" as the people involved desire/elect it to be... period.

Any discussion beyond the above statement is merely personal opinion. Each person has their own definition(s) of "total", "real", "power", "Master", "slave", "BDSM", "abuse", "consent", or Santa Claus, for that matter. My personal definition of "Total Power Exchange" is as follows: "The desire of two consenting adults to live as close to the dictionary/historical definitions of Master and slave." Others may define it differently.

*Note: As I'd stated in another thread, the primary concern behind TPE is abuse -- but just because a Master can be an abusive tyrant, it does not mean they will be an abusive tyrant. Choose wisely, Grasshopper.

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 2/14/2011 11:58:48 AM >

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 1:03:05 PM

ResidentSadist

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The trouble is that so many people with fucked up attitudes, poor powers of perception and narrow minds can’t see past the word “total” and merge it with the concept of “exchange”. Next thing you know, you have bullshit arguments about dictators, prisoners and other forced submission scenarios . . . which have nothing to do with the voluntary, but total exchange of TPE.

Just because some people want to negotiate, doesn’t mean everyone wants it. If you can’t wrap your head around the idea of TPE, imagine trying to negotiating your marching orders in the military or asking them to change chow time at the mess hall to a more convenient hour for you and see how far that gets you.

Total obedience is only as real as the participants make it. Like the concept of owning a human, which is illegal, you can always walk away. Like the Army, you can take your dishonorable discharge and find your freedom.

Excerpt from: -=TPE - no limits total submission, fact or fiction?=-

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Posted by request.
-----------------------------------------------------------
-=The End All of Limits =-
In line with reality, if I tell my slave to "fly" she will not be able to whether there are negotiated limits or not. However, a good slave once said, "with a running start, I can give you 2 seconds of flight".

There are no limits in TPE. Anything otherwise is semantic word games. As Master I am in control and I own my slave in the same way I own any property. My car does not negotiate limits with me when I ask it to turn left or stop, neither should my slave. My car has real life limitations like my slave. If I abuse it or push it past its' limits, it will break. However, I am smart and responsible enough not to abuse my property, living or otherwise. My car can't fly for more than a few seconds either by the way.

If "limits" are a concern to the point you feel you must mention or negotiate for them you are either not suited for TPE or poorly paired with someone you don't trust. Either way, "limits" should be a clue to both parties that something is amiss.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I look forward to your replies and opinions on the realities of TPE. Please take note before you reply that M/s and D/s lifestyles are no more related than a submissive and a slave are. Neither is better than or comparable to each other. Pleas do not compare apples vs oranges in your reply.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 1:05:52 PM

leadership527

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I get all that IB... really. I just boggled at how that wouldn't be counted as D/s anymore. Once again I'm reminded that while the words are the same, the definitions and concepts I use seem to be totally different. Somehow, embedded int he line of reasoning is the idea that "dominance = force". Not something I understand or ascribe to.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/14/2011 1:27:18 PM

IronBear

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Jeff mate, if Dominance = Force, then Force = Strength >>>> Strength of will and character and even personality. Not brute strength but the quiet strength which would allow you to subdue and get the submittion of several beefy ladies when the average brutish oalf who sees strength as physical strength would jot be able to subdue without resorting to violence..

I see the issue here for you isn't the concept of TPE but the semantics it poses.. Perhaps were you to widen your acceptance of alternative meanings of some of the words or expressions were use things may fall into place.. I'll bet the first royalties of the book I am working on that your Carol doesn't give a flyinmg fruit bat because she loves you and has submitted to the strength and power you have already.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/14/2011 1:29:00 PM >

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