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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/15/2011 7:21:46 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

The bottom line is that she does what is required to make her partner happy.

It's total enough for me.

Yes, but can she levitate of her own volition if you command it?! It may not be as "total" as you think!!!

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/15/2011 9:39:17 PM

CherryNeko

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I think there are always limits. However, you're talking about the last resource, the 'I'm done and walking away' choice. It's not a limit, it's the end.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/15/2011 10:46:08 PM

Palliata

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In the literal sense, no there can't be. The legality of it keeps us from hiring slave-catchers to retrieve runaways. That said, if you get far enough inside someone's head you can keep them from fleeing in the first place, so in that sense such a thing can exist.. That is, naturally, extremely hard, and there are those who would say this is in every way amoral, so perhaps the better question isn't so much DOES it exist or CAN it exist, but SHOULD it exist. Personally I think that if the people involved are compatible enough then something like that can be a beautiful thing, but it is extremely risky because if things go south the sub is going to have a great deal of trouble returning to solo life even if their M lets them.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/15/2011 11:05:26 PM

LillyBoPeep

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i think that's the way "internal enslavement" works, and i think it really IS beautiful; when you've internalized whatever it is you're doing to a point where you feel a "can't" where others imagine there is none. that's pretty powerful, and comforting, too, in many ways.
sometimes you can draw strength from not being able to run away.
should it exist? i think so, as long as people are smart about how they're attaching themselves to.
i think for some people, it's just a more comfortable way to live.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/15/2011 11:46:41 PM

IronBear

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

The bottom line is that she does what is required to make her partner happy.

It's total enough for me.

Yes, but can she levitate of her own volition if you command it?! It may not be as "total" as you think!!!

Have you not been following this thread, and seen or understood that if two people become so close due to time spent together, they think and oft act as one. It is the time when there is no requirement for domination in the usual sense of the word because it is not required. The respective positions of Dominant and sub/slave is implanted into the psyche that each act automatically and the domination or commands are more often subvert rather then overt. Similar to me making a general comment that when anyone is available I need a coffee refill or the entry gear may need checking and that a complete weapons check would be a great idea and 0300 hrs. No commands are issued just what I expect from my partner, slave or team. Snapping commands do have a place and that is when visiting officers are there or on the parade ground (as all the ex military from the UK will fully understand my ideas).

Thus old chap, I will say that Leadership is quite correct.. I would say though in all fairness, many people will not understand what I am talking about until they are blessed with such a relationship which allows them to experience this for themselves.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/15/2011 11:49:41 PM >

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 7:38:42 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
Personally I think that if the people involved are compatible enough then something like that can be a beautiful thing, but it is extremely risky because if things go south the sub is going to have a great deal of trouble returning to solo life even if their M lets them.

Which is no different than two vanillas who have lived and loved for 50 years at which point one dies. The survivor has enormous difficulty returning to solo life.

The husband may have always paid the bills and now the wife has to relearn how to balance a checkbook. The wife may have always cooked and now the grieving husband has to learn how to feed himself.

Any good fulltime relationship will end like this with one party in extreme difficulty at having to carry on alone.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 8:03:59 AM

IronBear

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Wonderful analogy Celeste. This is the reason I have insisted that Neets has taken the lead in bill paying (from a joint fund) and has dealt with various home matters and that she is actively involved in the businesses we run. I am taking every reasonable precaution to protect our wealth as we accumulate it so that later no smooth talking bastard can try to horn in and take it away from her. My legal folk can always contact people well versed in turd - human removal. Similarly, understanding the shock of loosing a partner, I am ensuring that all our income areas are protecteds by incorporating the family business as a Pty. Ltd. company and having this entity own or control other ventures as well as using trusts to protect properties we buy. Not being too dumb I also have an excellent funeral insurance plan.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 8:08:00 AM

DesFIP

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You also learning how to do her usual areas of expertize? You don't want to find yourself eating the same thing day in and day out because you can only cook one item. Or living in a filthy environment because you don't know how to effectively clean. Or find you have no contact with family and friends because she's always been the one to keep in contact with people.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 8:16:09 AM

IronBear

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We have equal contact with her parents as her sisters are crap who only talk to their mum and dad when they want something. Cleaning is usually done by both of us depending who has the time with Neets studying and often called out for emergency nanny duties. Cooking, Hmmmmmmm I cook often and serve 4 star quality restaurant food at home. I also have a very good support team who have been with me for over 40 years now for emergencies. As I am 30 years older it is vaguely possible that I may die first. ATM there are no contracts out ion me that I know of. VWEG

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 9:21:08 AM

CelticPrince

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quote:

Hi,

I'm very new to the scene, and so am still very much learning. I do apologise if this is a stupid question, but I am curious, and keen to learn as much as I possibly can :)

On the boards I have heard people referring to "total power exchange" or having "no limits", but I am wondering ... is this ever really the case? I mean, you will always still have power ... if a Master/Mistress does something that you REALLY do not like, or whatever ... surely there is always the option of walking out, or of leaving? It might be difficult, but you always still have some degree of power?

The same with no limits ... if, for example, a Master/Mistress does something that you realise is something you simply can't go through with - you can say no, and if they ignore your wishes, walk away?

Perhaps I am being naive, but I realise this could be a possibility, and am keen to educate myself :)

Thank you for reading, and hopefully, replying!

PC,

The key issue with TPE is sustaining the relationship. If a sub/slave needs to do so he/she will follow the doctrine but can always walk away if he/she wishes.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 9:26:59 AM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Thus old chap, I will say that Leadership is quite correct.

I was secretly agreeing.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 10:24:38 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
I was secretly agreeing.

And I was not so secretely laughing. Carol looked over startled when I read the levitation response NZ.

Although all humor aside (and since this thread was actually about total power exchange), I did in fact get to an answer on "total" that works for me. I can't say "total" without any bounds on it and keep a straight face. How can I know how she'd perform against all the commands I didn't give? And what about all the commands I haven't given yet but will tomorrow? What I can say with precision and accuracy is that it has been total up till now. That is to say, she has never knowingly declined a command.

In the end, not only is it "total enough for me", it is actually "total for me" up till now. And, oddly enough, that actually matters to me (who's normally a pretty pragmatic sort of person). let's assume that she was 99.8% total... perhaps there'd been one or two commands she had declined somewhere. Realistically, those one or two commands over the course of 4 years would not have substantially changed my life in any way. Such a small sample could only get lost in the sea of other commands around it. But as Carol herself said, there's not so much difference between 97 and 99. But there's a world of difference between 99 and 100. Practically, that means four things to me:

a) As I am laying whatever plans I have for our future, I know that I'm unconstrained in my view. I don't have to factor in not just the one or two limits I know, but also all the ones I don't know about but have to presume are there also.

b) In Carol's mind, she understands that "no" isn't an option so she doesn't go there. By precluding disobedience right from the [almost] very beginning I also precluded all the unpleasantness that goes along with it. I don't have a punishment dynamic because I don't need one because disobedience is literally impossible the way I've set up the dynamic.

c) When I make some risky play, I KNOW she'll be there to have my back... whether or not she agrees with the command and whether or not it's personally horrible to her. This emboldens me to lead to the edge of my capabilities rather than take more conservative paths. We both benefit from that.

d) It feeds my sense of ownership. For me, I need to see actual facts in order to think things. I'm an engineer that way. So in order to think that I "own" Carol, I need more than both of us nodding and saying it's so. I need to see her obedience. It's hard for me to see her as my "property" if she's off doing whatever she wants wherever she wants.

So at least for me, the definition I have of "total" works because it is bounded and therefor measurable, quantifiable, and verifiable. It isn't some theoretical discussion on the nature of absolutes in a relative universe. Rather, it's a pragmatic discussion of the actual span of my control measured against my desired span. Don't get me wrong, for those more spiritually inclined than I (which is what, EVERYONE in bdsm?? ~laughs~) then the whole totality thing I'm sure is endless hours entertainment. But I'm an engineer more than a philosopher. I'm a measure sort of guy.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 11:39:48 AM

IronBear

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Strewth Jeff, you mean to tell me your lass does not levitate on command for you? Bummer! I was thinking you may be able to assist me in training a new girl to levitate and whilst remaining levitated, move into what ever position I chose so I could have my evil way with her.. Man we could have racked in the Greenbacks as a public performance with you as technical manager you'd have made a fortune too..

< Message edited by IronBear -- 2/16/2011 11:40:44 AM >

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 12:17:13 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Strewth Jeff, you mean to tell me your lass does not levitate on command for you? Bummer

Well hold on. As we speak she's kneeling on the floor with her face screwed up in concentration and trembling slightly. It looks to me like levitation is imminent.

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 1:10:42 PM

ResidentSadist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
TPE is such a volatile subject here at collarme. LOL

Also, a rather ridiculous one in an awful lot of respects. It's yet another one of those things that people seem to want to dumb down into some sort of 1-10 scale. "She's 9.427 on the submissive scale." Oh Puleaze. The actual landscape of Carol's submission is highly complicated. There are places I care about more and less. There are places she cares about more and less. There are places that are more difficult and places that are easier. There are some commands which Carol would truly struggle with yet other subs here would not even notice. If I was looking at those things then she'd be a pretty poor submissive. There are other things that Carol handles readily that other subs here think are beyond the pale of reason. If I was looking at those things then she's super-slave. The bottom line is that she does what is required to make her partner happy.

It's total enough for me.

I completely relate to what you are saying. It’s as if some want to dumb it down to the point a submissives’ D/s role is equitable, measurable and comparable to a slave’s M/s role or vice versa. When in fact, they each hold their own separate value and much of the relationship style and reward systems are different.

I have always felt a slave dosen't have to be submissive (personalty), they have to obey.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 1:29:05 PM

IronBear

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quote:

230 NZ points

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(in repl

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Strewth Jeff, you mean to tell me your lass does not levitate on command for you? Bummer
Well hold on. As we speak she's kneeling on the floor with her face screwed up in concentration and trembling slightly. It looks to me like levitation is imminent.

Crikey mate, has she perchance, loaded up with the shiteazy tablets they give you before a colonoscopy is done? Quick mate cover everything with industrial plastic sheeting.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 3:15:52 PM

Twoshoes

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quote:

In the end, not only is it "total enough for me", it is actually "total for me" up till now.

OK, so you listed four "pragmatic", demonstrable things you need in order to sustain your belief in a form that is absolute (removing the enough). (And you used "for me" a significant number of times, which means you understand that both your articulation and source of satisfaction in this matter are subjective).

I don't see why you would have a problem with 'belief', though. Beliefs and everything else you can form in your consciousness have a physical equivalent in neural networks, so having a belief doesn't require a hand-waving, metaphysical explanation. (I don't believe in a 'soul' or 'spirituality', personally, since these concepts don't hold up to a skeptical, minimalist approach.)

But Jeff, I really think you would be good at philosophy and you should read some, because knowing the framework you are using or arguing from (and its inconsistencies) will make people take you seriously. (And everyone has a framework - often with concepts like "authenticity", "the individual", "rationalism", "liberty", "freedom", etc.) Otherwise, it's like showing up to a discussion about math with weird symbols for integrals, non-standard notation and no concept of a set or a real number. Even if you had a point, no one would really listen, because you haven't spent the time learning the commonly accepted concepts, in other words, the language.

So to reiterate, the only thing that brings any sort of satisfaction in this case is the confirmation of this subjective belief by your perception and analysis. Meanwhile, objective judgments will bring us nowhere, in trying to articulate what "total power" is, which is why these threads tend to go nowhere, when approached that way. In your case, you have the subjective part down. Of course, a belief can be justified by judgments (which is what your post did), just like a judgment can be rationalized from a belief. (It's not like cognitive processes start from one area of the brain and are limited to it for their duration.)

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 3:33:53 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
TPE is such a volatile subject here at collarme. LOL

Also, a rather ridiculous one in an awful lot of respects. It's yet another one of those things that people seem to want to dumb down into some sort of 1-10 scale. "She's 9.427 on the submissive scale." Oh Puleaze. The actual landscape of Carol's submission is highly complicated. There are places I care about more and less. There are places she cares about more and less. There are places that are more difficult and places that are easier. There are some commands which Carol would truly struggle with yet other subs here would not even notice. If I was looking at those things then she'd be a pretty poor submissive. There are other things that Carol handles readily that other subs here think are beyond the pale of reason. If I was looking at those things then she's super-slave. The bottom line is that she does what is required to make her partner happy.

It's total enough for me.

I completely relate to what you are saying. It’s as if some want to dumb it down to the point a submissives’ D/s role is equitable, measurable and comparable to a slave’s M/s role or vice versa. When in fact, they each hold their own separate value and much of the relationship style and reward systems are different.

I have always felt a slave dosen't have to be submissive (personalty), they have to obey.

I agree totally with this. There is no need for internalisation, in other words no conversion. A skave obeys regardless of whether they think they ought to or not. For some this process becomes easier over time. For others it is just innate. For some what felt like an innate state 'snaps' and it usually snaps during the process of releasing oneself. In my honest opinion and experience.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 3:55:36 PM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes
But Jeff, I really think you would be good at philosophy and you should read some

Actually, I LOVED philosophy when I was in college. I almost took it as a major. AT some point though, I got tired of debating angels on pinheads and got more interested in something a bit more pragmatic. Now, philosophical arguments bore me. It's just two people "arguing" over something for which there is no right answer -- usually in order to convince everyone else how intelligent and wise they are. I see it as yet another form of mock combat which I don't engage in. If I'm going to argue with someone then there will be a winner and a loser.

To carry your example on, "It's like showing up to a math conversation and realizing that everyone in the room was debating whether bumble bees can fly" then shaking my head as I walk away laughing. It's just not a conversation I want any part of even as I acknowledge that the mathematics types get enjoyment from it.

So, here I find no use in philosophical things like the nature of totalities in a subjective universe. It's the kind of thing that someone with more free time and less real problems than I have can ponder about to their heart's content. Here, what I care about is whether Carol pleases me or not. Here, if I want to discuss "total", I have to bound it so that it becomes a non-philosophical discussion. Otherwise we end up in limb-chopping land.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 3:56:39 PM

cloudboy

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To bad the OP was not around in the days of Socratesnot: 800 posts in 2 months to profile not found.

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