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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 4:55:45 PM   
Twoshoes


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Well, that's fair enough, Jeff. I'm not a philosopher, I just like to know what models and abstractions I'm using for physics and writing. (It's not like I get to be good at that much else, really.)

But I hope to have explained at least a little bit why there is potential satisfaction, but not a "right answer" for this topic. And the disctinction is kind of important, considering you and everyone else is claiming validity, even though they have completely different relationships (and yours is markedly different in some ways, from your description).

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 5:19:40 PM   
leadership527


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:) I concede that there is "satisfaction in this topic". It shows up about 40 times a week here on collarme so clearly it's a crowd pleaser :) I question whether the debate satisfaction though translates to real life satisfaction. I strongly suspect it is a negative in terms of real satisfaction within the relationship.

Wasn't it KoM who recently wrote something like (paraphrased poorly I'm sure)

"I sometimes wonder if the worst thing someone can do to their relationship is try to define it and then live up to that definition."

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 6:26:42 PM   
KnightofMists


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I think you paraphrased it rather well...

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/16/2011 10:35:22 PM   
IronBear


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I agreed with you both and especially KoM's tag line from Eric Fromm. I would posit that what you are both saying works not just in Relationships (all relationships) but personally too. All to often those well intentioned people offer praise based not on accurate information about you as a person and you i\what ever role you are in at that time. The sad aspect is that some, perhaps the weakest minded or the most vulnerable can and do start to believe their own hype or that hype  forced on them by a fan public. Theater and especially Hollywood's history is littered with corpses and wrecks of such people.              




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Iron Bear

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http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/17/2011 6:39:37 AM   
Palliata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
Personally I think that if the people involved are compatible enough then something like that can be a beautiful thing, but it is extremely risky because if things go south the sub is going to have a great deal of trouble returning to solo life even if their M lets them.


Which is no different than two vanillas who have lived and loved for 50 years at which point one dies. The survivor has enormous difficulty returning to solo life.

The husband may have always paid the bills and now the wife has to relearn how to balance a checkbook. The wife may have always cooked and now the grieving husband has to learn how to feed himself.

Any good fulltime relationship will end like this with one party in extreme difficulty at having to carry on alone.



Certainly there's a parallel, but I think there's a greater depth of dependency in a relationship like the one the OP was describing - the slave has literally given over their entire decision-making paradigm to their M, and by the time they are back on their own everything in their life is different. Not unrecoverable, by any means, but challenging. Is it worth it? No doubt, if it's your thing, but it pays to be aware of the consequences beforehand.


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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/26/2011 9:06:50 PM   
iambad69


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It is completely possible. if a submissive like myself is able to give up the entirety of his being to a strong, dominant Woman, then yes, complete and total submission with no limits is possible.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 5:06:45 AM   
DesFIP


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Palliata, do you really think a two year relationship dependent on another can compare to the end of a fifty year relationship? Because I don't.

Additionally you're forgetting one very important factor, the age of the person at the time the relationship ends. A 25 year old will be able to relearn skills in very short order. A forty five year old may take two or three years to completely remaster abandoned skill sets. But an 85 year old isn't going to be able to remember skills lost 50 years earlier nor have sufficient time to relearn them, assuming they can even find a teacher willing to take them.


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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 5:09:45 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata
Personally I think that if the people involved are compatible enough then something like that can be a beautiful thing, but it is extremely risky because if things go south the sub is going to have a great deal of trouble returning to solo life even if their M lets them.


Which is no different than two vanillas who have lived and loved for 50 years at which point one dies. The survivor has enormous difficulty returning to solo life.

The husband may have always paid the bills and now the wife has to relearn how to balance a checkbook. The wife may have always cooked and now the grieving husband has to learn how to feed himself.

Any good fulltime relationship will end like this with one party in extreme difficulty at having to carry on alone.



Certainly there's a parallel, but I think there's a greater depth of dependency in a relationship like the one the OP was describing - the slave has literally given over their entire decision-making paradigm to their M, and by the time they are back on their own everything in their life is different. Not unrecoverable, by any means, but challenging. Is it worth it? No doubt, if it's your thing, but it pays to be aware of the consequences beforehand.



Bullocks to the idea that somehow a defined power exchange relationship is more vulnerable than a non defined 'vanilla' relationship. I've seen too many, so called vanilla, relationships blow up where there was no less devastation than would be in a non vanilla relationship. Quite honestly I think it is ridiculous, this habit we all have, in thinking that our style of relationship is somehow more special, deeper, more edgy or whateverthefuck romanticized descriptive we want to attach to it in our heads to make ourselves feel somehow better than those poor vanilla people.

In December, a friend of mine died. His wife, her life, is completely and utterly changed......as anyone with that many years of marriage would be. She had noooooooooo clue of their finances, didn't even know where her husband kept the safe deposit key. She has fought with the bank, the accounting firm that has handled their finances for years, family and friends, out of frustration and devastation.....her world crumbled on December 23, 2010. It was not a defined power exchange, it was a typical 40+ year, vanilla marriage. She handled some things, he handled others. Those things were divided up year ago, through the same trials and tribulations most marriages go through and get issues worked out. Determined by individual strengths and weaknesses, interests, and likes and dislikes. It is an organic process. A process where two individuals, over time, became one working unit. Regardless of lack of kink or some defined power structure, when one part of that unit is seperated from the other.......there is going to be loss, perhaps devastation.

What we do, it isn't all that special. If anything in our defined, and hopefully communicated, power structure....we take a few shortcuts in what marriages like my friends' worked out over years together. Just because it's different in some ways doesn't make it better or worse, more or less devastating when it ends. It is simply a different relationship style. No more, no less.

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My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 5:17:11 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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i have to agree with you there; my grandparents were married 48 years, and some things my grandma is just totally lost on now that she's by herself. there's a great deal of dependency in any relationship where the bond is solid, no matter if it's vanilla or kinky. if my grandma had died first, my grandpa would've been a basket case, too.
i think, too, when the power structure is your goal, you can try to set up a few safeguards along the way, but when it's something that just "happens," you're not setting out to say "what will be the ramifications on this person who i fully OWN when i'm gone?"  people think about it, but it also seems like people tend to think they're a little bit less important to the other person than that other person is to them; a lot of them don't think "this person NEEDS me; i have to see to make sure things will be okay when i am gone."


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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 5:58:07 AM   
LaTigresse


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Which, for most relationships of any length of time, is foolish. I think the hardcore M/s relationship where the s type is completely smitten and dependent upon the other while the M type is completely without need or emotional attachment of the s type, is very very rare. And it goes back to, choosing the right relationship, and more importantly, person, for you. If a s-type does not want that emotionally one sided relationship then they need to avoid entering one. They need to take that personal responsibility instead of bitching and whining about the terrible M type that shit all over them and left them devastated.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LillyBoPeep)
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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 7:06:58 AM   
IronBear


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I agree with you LT. We all, no matter which side of the kneel we belong and no matter how desperate we may be to enter into a specific relationship, need to take responsibility for our thoughts, words and actions.

If you are lucky enough to find the ideal relationship for you and your new partner is happy to take more and more control as you yield it, you are indeed blessed and one of the lucky few.

Just my view of the situation.......


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 7:26:33 AM   
SimplyMichael


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The bigger the font used for TPE the less actual "total" or "power" exists in the relationship.

Considering how dysfunctional and sad most BDSM relationships are, it is terrifying to think that there are people who think "our" relationships are better than "vanilla" in any way shape or form.

2/3 of the people reading that will think I am putting BDSM wrong but I am simply pouring a bit of cold water on some of the fanciful crap in this thread.

and no, I haven't had any coffee...

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 9:23:16 AM   
porcelaine


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Which, for most relationships of any length of time, is foolish. I think the hardcore M/s relationship where the s type is completely smitten and dependent upon the other while the M type is completely without need or emotional attachment of the s type, is very very rare. And it goes back to, choosing the right relationship, and more importantly, person, for you. If a s-type does not want that emotionally one sided relationship then they need to avoid entering one. They need to take that personal responsibility instead of bitching and whining about the terrible M type that shit all over them and left them devastated.


Excellent post.

I believe this is the disparity between what appears ideal and the reality of what it involves. Dependency has its risks and it is my belief that one cannot be on both sides of the concept. If you're going to put yourself completely in another person's hands you must be willing to entertain the positive and negative ramifications of that decision. One is not absolved when things go belly up. If you can't roll with the punches avoid the fray.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


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His will; my fate.

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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 10:25:10 AM   
leadership527


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I dont' think of it as "putting BDSM down". But I do agree that there are plenty of "my relationship is in the crapper" threads on this site to call into question the noble purity of BDSM relationships.

What's really interesting to me is that, in large part, if one goes to a vanilla dating site and reads some threads they end up looking very similar to the threads here with just a bit of interpretation. Honestly, I think that people are people.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
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RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? - 2/27/2011 12:04:23 PM   
IronBear


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On the occasions I've perused mundane dating sites, I've found the folks there to be far more abusive than here. Perhaps it's to do with their insecurities or minuscule peni (referring to the males there)

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to leadership527)
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