RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing?

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Prinsexx -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 1:42:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I agree with this. The closer to TPE the less control and indeed the less submission required. As a slave there need be no submission although submissives often think that it's like a promotion. I have to say that this statement totally and completely baffles me. I think the point she's getting at is that, in relationships that are not validated by conflict/correction (and from the s-type's point of view who is working on being able to yield more naturally), the journey is about getting to a place where things flow seamlessly and the exertions of "submission" and "dominance" (as concerted acts/thoughts) becomes less necessary because things settle into a fluid cycle. Yes that's what I am saying. And likewise from the dominant position getting someone to submit, controlling that submission, taming it, shaping it and mairaining it can be hard work and involve a great deal of responsibility and constant reinforcement. Whereas owning a slave involves none of this.

Prinsexx -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 1:48:06 PM)
Dear RS I don't have a problem understanfing the fact that your car doesn't start unless you turn the key or substituting analogies.

DesFIP -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 5:15:49 PM)
I disagree when RS says that his car has no limits. Try running it without oil and see what happens. Decide that it should be able to go 250 mph when it's a minivan that can barely make 95. It has limits built in. The smart thing is to identify what you need it for and pick one that suits you. So you won't be upset when your 350 can't do 50 mpg highway or your smart car can't tow a horse trailer. In the same way, people have limits built in. You may get off on starvation play but if she's a diabetic and you're going to be calling the paramedics every time you do this, you will have to think differently. Whether health issues or moral values, limits are built in. In exactly the same way the military won't take a pacifist into a fighting unit but only as a medic. The limits exist and if the relationship is to work, they must be accepted.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 5:44:46 PM)
that's a great post DesFIP; limits are reality, even if they aren't explicitly stated, they can be built in. any material thing that exists has some limit after which it breaks down. Prinsexx -- i have to say, your posts are giving me lots to think about. i dont really understand a dynamic where you have to "get" someone to submit and tame that person. i've just never really thought of anything that way. the seamless flow is generally what i think of when i say "organic" -- for me, i'm really comfortable in an organic relationship, where the dynamic is fueled by the natural relationship/interaction between the people. otherwise it feels like it's forced, or a game. (this is only my opinion =p) at the same time, i can understand why a person might need a "leash yank" every now and then; for some, those things are necessary to help them feel like they aren't stagnating. but i don't really even see those as "taming" -- taming makes me think of someone who doesn't really want to be there. why bother if you don't want to be there? anyway, interesting stuff all around.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 6:43:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I disagree when RS says that his car has no limits. Try running it without oil and see what happens. That results in a M/s (Mechanic/sobbing customer) Dynamic. [;)][:D]

catize -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 6:45:12 PM)
Distrusting soul that I am, I know that I could never give complete control to another human being. The problem lies in the fact that few people consider (or believe) that total means just what it s defined as:............... [sm=doh.gif] everything[sm=doh.gif]. So when a dominant/master/mistress says they want TPE, and the submissive/slave agrees, 'tis all good until reality hits home and something is expected that you had never thought about. Then the dominant one gets upset and kicks you to the curb, or you find yourself thinking “I didn't think it meant I had to do THAT!” and run like hell. If no limits and/or TPE is something you wish to have, then it is imperative that you a.) get to know your potential partner very well and b.) understand exactly what they mean by either or both of those terms. There are relationships like that which have worked out well for some folks. If you are not interested in either of those dynamics, then find a partner who accepts your limits and who has no desire to have total control. That can happen as well.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 6:53:26 PM)
that's so true, catize. a lot of people treat it like they're picking up a package of ramen noodles or something. =p i think in some ways, participating in the online world and having everyone's business flying for all to see leads to some of that. on Fetlife, for instance, it's so blatant when a person becomes "owned and collared by X," and then next week is "unowned," only to be "owned and collared by Z" a week later. =p i think some people do it because they're just in a hurry since everyone else on their friends list is doing it. =p building up the trust and communication is really important, and people often mistakenly go into relationships thinking that the other person has the exact same ideas about everything. they rattle through a checklist and think that should cover it -- you need a basic understanding of the other person's ideals, goals, thoughts, opinions, etc to have an idea of how that person might respond in an unforeseen situation. as many different ideas as people have had just in this thread on what "total" means, it's important to remember that you're going to run into that kind of subjectivity elsewhere, so you have to know what YOU want, know what you're about yourself, and then be able to communicate that to someone else -- and find someone else who fits you. . OT: p.s. i adore your avatar. sunflowers are the most beautiful things. back home i grew a boatload of them alongside one of our greenhouses. deer ate half of them, but the ones that survived were amazing. ^_^

catize -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 7:11:03 PM)
Exactly! Defining and discussing each others expectations takes time and if that time is not taken, then it can be a disaster from both points of view. I believe much of WIITWD is taken far too lightly by too many. Immediate trust/respect is (usually) doomed! PS [:D] awww, glad you like my sunflower, I grow them every summer! No deer here but they are squirrel candy!

InvisibleBlack -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 8:31:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep building up the trust and communication is really important, and people often mistakenly go into relationships thinking that the other person has the exact same ideas about everything. they rattle through a checklist and think that should cover it -- you need a basic understanding of the other person's ideals, goals, thoughts, opinions, etc to have an idea of how that person might respond in an unforeseen situation. Exactly. There seems to be a lot of noise about TPE these days - but from my end of things - TPE isn't something you just jump into with someone you know as text on a screen. TPE is something your relationship evolves into over time. If I meet someone and within minutes she's talking about TPE, warning lights go off in my head. Based on my own experience, successful TPE relationships start as partial power exchanges and, over time, as trust is built up and you get to know each other, more power is exchanged until one day you realize that you're way past where you thought you'd be and that the concepts of limits and safe words are no longer necessary and haven't been for some time. That level of trust is a powerful and heady feeling - but it's not something you just find with a mouse click and an e-mail.

DomForce -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/14/2011 10:38:43 PM)
Hello, Great post. Love the topics. Well, there is such a thing as total power exchange. It's all about you and your partner. If you have a dominant partner, who is happily taking control over you, then all you need to do, is to make it clear, that you are up for it. Then, watch and enjoy when she really goes for it. So, yes, there is. I do it all the time.

kalikshama -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 5:09:40 AM)
quote: If you can’t wrap your head around the idea of TPE, imagine trying to negotiating your marching orders in the military or asking them to change chow time at the mess hall to a more convenient hour for you and see how far that gets you. Has anyone read "Shards of Honor"? The result of the clash between the traditional Barrayaran army and the "negotiate your orders" Betans was quite interesting. Bujold's latest book came with all the Vorkosigan books in electronic form which I can email to anyone interested. http://www.amazon.com/Shards-Honor-Lois-McMaster-Bujold/dp/1886778205/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297775139&sr=8-2 Shards of Honour is one of those incredible books that is almost completely unknown outside of the sci-fi genre. This is a loss to the people who think that sci-fi consists of nothing more than strange aliens, ray guns, and sex in outer space. Lois McMaster Bujold has the amazing talent of mixing characters and science and fiction in exactly the proper amounts. Cordelia Naismith is an astrocartographer from Beta Colony, heading a company of scientific prima donnas on an expedition to map out and catalog flora and fauna on a newly discovered planet. Sounds simple enough, right? Unfortunately Cordelia wasn't expecting to be ambushed by a bunch of blood-thirsty, out of control Barrayarans, or to get stuck in a trek for survival with their leader, Aral Vorkosigan, better known as the Butcher of Komarr. And that's only where the trouble begins. How do two people from distinctly different cultures survive in their situation, which I'm not going to expound on as it will spoil some of the best moments in the book? How will love survive an intergalactic war? How can someone survive after sacrificing honour, only to find that the necessary, vital result will never replace it? And, of course, the most pressing question to be asked: how much sexual energy do two people have to spare while hiking forty kilometres a day, concussed, stunned, diseased, on poor food and little sleep, alternating caring for a wounded man with avoiding becoming dinner for every carnivore within range, and with a coup to plan for at the end? Lois McMaster Bujold handles the characterisation so well that you almost forget that you don't actually know Cordelia and Aral. Highly, highly recommended.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 6:00:12 AM)
that book sounds really interesting, kalikshama ^_^ will have to check it out

osf -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 7:22:56 AM)
seems to me that a well functioning m/s d/s relationship in which both play their roles doesn't loose the d and s factor it just means that it's not a chore nor a power struggle

kalikshama -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 7:52:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep that book sounds really interesting, kalikshama ^_^ will have to check it out It may be in your library system as well. "Cordelia's Honor" contains "Shards of Honor" and "Barrayar."

DesFIP -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 9:57:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I disagree when RS says that his car has no limits. Try running it without oil and see what happens. That results in a M/s (Mechanic/sobbing customer) Dynamic. [;)][:D] Around here it involves The Man getting a used engine and swapping them. Not something anyone wants to do regularly. Or even once.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 12:45:14 PM)
Apples vs Oranges After clearly stating that my car and slave are bound by the same limits of reason and reality, which have nothing to do with obedience, I get misquoted. It cracks me up to see people aren’t even reading my reply before choosing a false quote to support a counterpoint that is actually inline with my own premises. TPE is such a volatile subject here at collarme. LOL

DisneyDiva -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 1:10:01 PM)
Thank you so much for all your replies. I have really enjoyed reading them, and found them very thought-provoking. It's really answered my question, thanks!!

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 6:21:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I disagree when RS says that his car has no limits. Try running it without oil and see what happens. That results in a M/s (Mechanic/sobbing customer) Dynamic. [;)][:D] Around here it involves The Man getting a used engine and swapping them. Not something anyone wants to do regularly. Or even once. Actually, it is something we've had to do... fucking piece of shit Audi -- will never buy another one... ever!!! = (

LillyBoPeep -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 6:50:33 PM)
i dunno if it's so much a volatile subject as people here at CM seem very ready to assume the worst. =p i get what you're saying ResidentSadist, and after reading through your post again (i kinda skimmed it, i admit!) i see that you do mention the built in limits.

leadership527 -> RE: Total Power Exchange - is there really such a thing? (2/15/2011 6:59:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist TPE is such a volatile subject here at collarme. LOL Also, a rather ridiculous one in an awful lot of respects. It's yet another one of those things that people seem to want to dumb down into some sort of 1-10 scale. "She's 9.427 on the submissive scale." Oh Puleaze. The actual landscape of Carol's submission is highly complicated. There are places I care about more and less. There are places she cares about more and less. There are places that are more difficult and places that are easier. There are some commands which Carol would truly struggle with yet other subs here would not even notice. If I was looking at those things then she'd be a pretty poor submissive. There are other things that Carol handles readily that other subs here think are beyond the pale of reason. If I was looking at those things then she's super-slave. The bottom line is that she does what is required to make her partner happy. It's total enough for me.

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