RE: what makes someone a true master? (Full Version)

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angelikaJ -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/24/2011 7:14:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Those who point the finger of falsehood in life stand facing a mirror in their hearts

Old Atlantean proverb

And this was "on topic"...exactly how?

Back to the OP:
I liked IronBear's response.

What is going to be right (and therefore true) for me, may not be right (and true) for you or anyone else.

Edit: to remove bolding



Arturas -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/24/2011 8:17:42 AM)

FR

Truth tends to be simple, clean and always truth without conditions. I read it on the first page. A submissive said that what makes a master is having a true sub or slave. I believe she is right and that there is nothing more and nothing else. The only thing that makes a true master is the presence of his slave or submissive. A slave defines the master and the master defines the slave. Without one there cannot be the other.

Arturas and star.




tazzygirl -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/24/2011 1:44:24 PM)

Define "true".

Then explain what a "true" submissive or slave is.

Im sure there will be someone who identifies with being a "Master" who will tell you, you are wrong.

According to the philosophy you follow, a man doesnt need to own a slave to be a Master. Yet, you are stating a man is defined by the slave.

Interesting theory. Not sure how gorean it is, but it is interesting.



FukinTroll -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/24/2011 1:57:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Define "true".

Then explain what a "true" submissive or slave is.

Im sure there will be someone who identifies with being a "Master" who will tell you, you are wrong.

According to the philosophy you follow, a man doesnt need to own a slave to be a Master. Yet, you are stating a man is defined by the slave.

Interesting theory. Not sure how gorean it is, but it is interesting.


Well said tazzy.

One can be master of his domain... his lil man in hand kinda mastery. You can be Dominant as hell, however until you have that lil someone to have mastery over, you are still only master of your domain.

Slurp!

P.S. All /s must have the ACME /s factory stamp on the bottom of their right foot to be weal and twue.



subtlebutterfly -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/24/2011 1:59:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: waitin4Mrright

is it the amount of time they havein the lifestyle? Is it the postion they take with the subs and slaves they are with? It seems like everyone has their own thoughts about what a true "MASTER" "DOM" is...[sm=axe.gif]


Wrong on all accounts. It comes down to the suit they wear.

And YES true masters wear them at all times, sleep in them too.



Arturas -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/24/2011 3:28:14 PM)

Simple truths are so Gorean.

What is the sunlight without the Sun? What is the Sun without sunlight?
What is the slave without the Master? What is the Master without the slave?

Goreans have a saying, Every man is a an ubar (master, leader, warchief) within the reach of his sword (his arm).
I think many realize being a master only counts if someone is within his arms else he is a master of nothing except himself.

Arturas



tazzygirl -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/24/2011 5:08:29 PM)

quote:

What is the sunlight without the Sun? What is the Sun without sunlight?


Without the sun, you have no sunlight. Without the sunlight, you have no sun? Could have sworn you can sit within the shade and still have the sun. And there is the darkness issue... does the sun cease to exist at night?

quote:

What is the slave without the Master? What is the Master without the slave?


Without a Master, you have no slave. The man makes the woman.

Without a slave, you can still have a Master. He is the master of his domain. Many of those men in the "saga" books you love to quote didnt own slaves.

Are you suggesting that a man can only be a Master if he owns a slave, making the slave the certerpiece of the relationship, negating the fundemental belief that consensual slavery is all about giving up control?

quote:

Goreans have a saying, Every man is a an ubar (master, leader, warchief) within the reach of his sword (his arm).
I think many realize being a master only counts if someone is within his arms else he is a master of nothing except himself.


Ya know, earthlings have a saying too... "A man's home is his castle"



IronBear -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/24/2011 11:41:46 PM)

Thank you tassy, I haved argued this matter that a man is only a Master if he owns a slave! I asked if this was the case, does a slave have that much power over men in Gor? Admittedly, when I was part of the Gorean Lifestyle, I owned a slave on line an in real life too. But as I also stated, I am master of my own home, Master of my Craft, Master of the of my sport and academically, I am a Master Science. If a man has Mastery over himself then surely he is a Master?



FukinTroll -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/25/2011 9:47:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Thank you tassy, I haved argued this matter that a man is only a Master if he owns a slave! I asked if this was the case, does a slave have that much power over men in Gor? Admittedly, when I was part of the Gorean Lifestyle, I owned a slave on line an in real life too. But as I also stated, I am master of my own home, Master of my Craft, Master of the of my sport and academically, I am a Master Science. If a man has Mastery over himself then surely he is a Master?



IB, there are really no particular point that I could disagree with in your post. I am in total agreement with you about self-discipline = Mastery. However, in this... um... medium for lack of better... it is precarious to shout from the roof tops MASTER HERE. Just in a trade/skill/academic setting your mastery is apparent by those that interact with you, your peers identify it and acknowledge it. It is like going to any open forum and trying to convince them that you are uber smart, uber domly, uber educated, uber whatever... the mastery, itself, will seep through and be recognized.

A slave does validate the Mastery, although not necessary, master/mastery is recognized and acknowledged by your peers. That said, when people come along with the chest thumping look at me I'm a master stuff I kinda shudder and sit back to be shown and not told.

YMMV
SLURP~

E: Cuz some times it is clear that ESL is a troll thang.



leadership527 -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/25/2011 4:27:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear
Thank you tassy, I haved argued this matter that a man is only a Master if he owns a slave! I asked if this was the case, does a slave have that much power over men in Gor? Admittedly, when I was part of the Gorean Lifestyle, I owned a slave on line an in real life too. But as I also stated, I am master of my own home, Master of my Craft, Master of the of my sport and academically, I am a Master Science. If a man has Mastery over himself then surely he is a Master?
I think this is one of those ridiculous BDSM debates that hinge on the definition of a word which is not simply undefined, but endlessly redefined. Depending on which context and definition you want to use for "master" you get different answers. Is it a "role", a "personality type", "a synonym for 'male'", or a "title"?



Arturas -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/25/2011 8:49:16 PM)

quote:

He is the master of his domain. Many of those men in the "saga" books you love to quote didnt own slaves.

Exactly. Most men did not own slaves. Slaves were not property of everyone. In the Gorean Sagas, men were addressed as "master" because kajirae had to obey any Free Man and to remind the girls of their natural role and of the men's natural role. But to be sure, not all men are equal to that role. To be clearer, it was not that (we) Goreans believe anyone with a penis, by virtue of having a penis, is strong and can truly command a women, can put a woman at his feet, can capture a woman and light her slave fire, can make her desire and never wish to be free of her Master's collar. The Gorean Sagas make that distinction if you are paying attention. It is a logical and natural distinction.

quote:

Are you suggesting that a man can only be a Master if he owns a slave,

I did say that. If one is only Master of himself then who will call him Master, everyone whom he is master of, exactly one person. The kajira passing on the street calling him master does not count; after all, she also had to call 5 year old boys "master". You know, this is really simple. Why make it so hard?

quote:

making the slave the certerpiece of the relationship,

No, "slave (is) the centerpiece" is not the right word. I am certain the word more appropriate is "pudding" as in "the proof is in the pudding".


Arturas



IronBear -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/25/2011 8:53:32 PM)

I, tend to agree. I don't see master as a level of training, learning or accomplishment which one may be justly proud. Of course master of a home or vessel is a tad more involved but still a level of accomplishment. Unlike state, or military titles, I don't and will not use Master before my name because it is not applicable and rather superficial. Some seem to need it so that's ok too if that's what blows a breeze up their kilts.  



TotalDiscipline -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/26/2011 2:33:58 AM)

quote:

what makes someone a true master


the level of acception by his followers.



JanahX -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/26/2011 6:42:28 PM)

A TWUE MASTER ... whatever his little ego says it is ....and the person who is a TWUE SWAVE ... believes everything he says.



tiggerspoohbear -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (2/26/2011 7:31:20 PM)

Janah, love your avatar.  HASSENPFEFFER!!! [;)]



BigMasterCinTN -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (3/1/2011 9:12:04 PM)

IMO it
takes a perfect balance of control and compassion. knowledge and expertise, and a good slave. Masters don't often give slaves enough credt. Hell without them we would'nt even be Masters.



tazzygirl -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (3/2/2011 3:00:25 AM)

Hell without them we would'nt even be Masters.

[image]local://upfiles/502828/1FF6718F861F459F9CE89758B611CF53.gif[/image]

To be honest, if you havent the ability to at least master SOME part of your life before we meet, why would any slave consider you able to master her?




LaTigresse -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (3/2/2011 4:09:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tiggerspoohbear

Janah, love your avatar.  HASSENPFEFFER!!! [;)]



Ditto this!!

As for the debate at hand....... I don't think it matters at all. Consider this.

We can have man A that is super uber master to woman B..... in their happy little world, he is uber master and she is uber slave. They are satisfied with their definitions and their relationship.

Now the problem lies in when A and B walk off the property they call home.......either physically or virtually. B can be uber slave to the 10th degree, constantly looking adoringly at her uber master A, who thinks that B is the most amazing, bestest, awesomest slave in allllllllllll the land. Between the two of them there is bliss. ...............unnnnnnnnnnnttttiiiiiiilllllllllll A and B begin expecting the rest of the alphabet to agree with them. Unfortunately, it ain't ever gonna happen. To get their panties and boxers in a wad because Z laughed at them, W said neither of them had a fucking clue what a 'real and true' master/slave was, etc etc etc......is a lesson in futility.

I understand that, to a degree, we need some sort of defining descriptives in our lives. But we also need to accept the fact that our language is too easily fucked with, human beings are too diverse, we simply cannot nail down exact definitions when it comes to people and their relationships.

It doesn't matter that I think master A is a twit of the highest order being constantly lead around by his ego and woman. It doesn't matter that I think slave B is a passive agressive air head that hasn't got a clue what being a slave is, and that I would sooner back hand across the room to remove her from my personal space and would NEVER in a million years want as MY slave. None of that should matter to A and B because I do not define their relationship........they do.

So to answer the question of the OP....... whatever master believes to be a master......and whatever he can sucker some slave into believing, it is. Because each and every person you ask will have some slight difference, some expectation, that the rest of the alphabet may or may not.

Annnnnnnnnd if that made sense.......welcome to my pre coffee wonderland!



tazzygirl -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (3/2/2011 5:57:55 AM)

quote:

Annnnnnnnnd if that made sense.......welcome to my pre coffee wonderland!


LOL.. should I be scared that your post made perfect sense?



LaTigresse -> RE: what makes someone a true master? (3/2/2011 7:07:44 AM)

yes



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