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RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:24:08 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Well worry not, that's a very common mistake.

I am not against helping people, I am against the idea that I MUST. Do you have an obligation to help me? Of course not. Do you have a choice? Absolutely. That is what I believe. I reject altruism, I reject the view that I am nothing more than a sacrificial animal to others and their interests.


Sure I have to help you. you drive on an interstate don't you? I have to help pay for that and its upkeep. Not particularly happy about it since I am not using it at all.

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:27:49 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Hey, of course you see it that way. Typical hypocritical stance that I have come to expect.

How is it hypocritical to believe that individuals should be allowed self-determination instead of being regarded as objects with no control over their lives?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:30:42 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Well worry not, that's a very common mistake.

I am not against helping people, I am against the idea that I MUST. Do you have an obligation to help me? Of course not. Do you have a choice? Absolutely. That is what I believe. I reject altruism, I reject the view that I am nothing more than a sacrificial animal to others and their interests.


Sure I have to help you. you drive on an interstate don't you? I have to help pay for that and its upkeep. Not particularly happy about it since I am not using it at all.

So you never use or buy anything that is trucked?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:31:50 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Not what this is about at all. Is about whether you are willing to help a person in need or would you rather hide behind your personal belief in "self determination". Its a cop out. A nice thing to tell yourself that it isn't your problem. That if you just keep driving the person will be passed and you can go onto your nice suburb and have a latte at starbucks

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:32:59 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Well worry not, that's a very common mistake.

I am not against helping people, I am against the idea that I MUST. Do you have an obligation to help me? Of course not. Do you have a choice? Absolutely. That is what I believe. I reject altruism, I reject the view that I am nothing more than a sacrificial animal to others and their interests.


Sure I have to help you. you drive on an interstate don't you? I have to help pay for that and its upkeep. Not particularly happy about it since I am not using it at all.

So you never use or buy anything that is trucked?


Not over the interstate where he is from....

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:33:54 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		The way that the libertarian hard core always go on about that sort of thing being a job for charities rather than government is another nice touch, in that respect: who the fuck is going to give anything to charity if everybody thinks that way?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:36:47 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		They stand up in their pulpits and beat their chests about how good they are.......but you are right without that tax exemption...how much would be given?

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:38:45 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Not over the interstate where he is from....


Riiiiiiiiight.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:38:48 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

Well worry not, that's a very common mistake.

I am not against helping people, I am against the idea that I MUST. Do you have an obligation to help me? Of course not. Do you have a choice? Absolutely. That is what I believe. I reject altruism, I reject the view that I am nothing more than a sacrificial animal to others and their interests.


Sure I have to help you. you drive on an interstate don't you? I have to help pay for that and its upkeep. Not particularly happy about it since I am not using it at all.

So you never use or buy anything that is trucked?


Not over the interstate where he is from....


Where I'm from is not where I currently live.

So it doesnt benefit you to have serviceable roads? So I shouldn't help pay for the interstate that you're near, because it's not near where I currently live?

Now please, answer my question from the previous page of this thread.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:40:37 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline 		Which question would that be?

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:44:40 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983

You have a job, you work. With the money you earn, you buy yourself a nice jacket. You meet me, I have a shitty job, and can't afford as nice of a jacket as you. I tell you you should give me that jacket, because I cannot afford to get it myself.

Now, what do you do?


A closer analogy would be that a police officer comes along and requires DomYngBlk to give his jacket to you. 

It doesn't matter that you have a shitty job because you refused to make the effort to get a good education... or you screwed around without protection and got your 18 year old girlfriend pregnant and had to give up school in order to support your new family... or that you got fired from every decent job you managed to get because you refused to get to work on time or cussed out your boss and now you've got sucky references.

The police officer isn't going to allow DomYngBlk to decide whether he believes you deserve the jacket, and he doesn't care that you plan to turn around and sell the jacket on the next corner to buy drugs.  His policy is that you are needy and it's his responsibility to make sure everyone else takes care of you.  Anything less than that is callous and greedy.

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:44:58 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline 		It's the very last post on the second page. Very easy to find.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 2:58:39 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Not what this is about at all. Is about whether you are willing to help a person in need or would you rather hide behind your personal belief in "self determination". Its a cop out. A nice thing to tell yourself that it isn't your problem. That if you just keep driving the person will be passed and you can go onto your nice suburb and have a latte at starbucks


That is not what this is about, at all.  It is about having a voice is one's own contributions to society.  Do I believe in government charity?  Not particularly, but I do realize there are good reasons for it to exist.  What irks me to no ends is to see people (like some here in this thread) persist in demonizing anyone who doesn't agree with them, and by doing so try to negate their right to have a say in how tax money is spent.

Don't like the fundamentalist Christians?  Fine and dandy.
Detest the tree-hugger crowd?  Cool. 
Hate the right-wingers?  Peachy.
Loathe the bleeding heart liberals?   Okie dokie.

But try to suppress them and keep them from exercising their right to equal representation?  It's people like me you'll be fighting in the end.

< Message edited by TreasureKY -- 2/20/2011 2:59:38 PM >

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 3:02:50 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

A closer analogy would be that a police officer comes along and requires DomYngBlk to give his jacket to you. 

It doesn't matter that you have a shitty job because you refused to make the effort to get a good education... or you screwed around without protection and got your 18 year old girlfriend pregnant and had to give up school in order to support your new family... or that you got fired from every decent job you managed to get because you refused to get to work on time or cussed out your boss and now you've got sucky references.




I am going to point out a few flaws in your argument.

1) The American education system is over burdened in students to teachers, class rooms are too large for anyone to get the one on one help that many need to succeed in class.

2) There is more to learning than just applying yourself, with the shape that the education system is in, the problems for kids with learning disability are not always addressed, or they are completely ignored.

It is not uncommon for a dyslexic child to be considered "slow" or even "retarded," these kids need more attention and training to overcome a learning disability. Of course, if this kid does not gent the special training he needs to overcome this problem, he fails.

I know this for a fact because my son is dyslexic, and it wasnt until he was well into highschool that it was discovered. Until then he barely passed.

Of course, by your argument it was his fault.


Finally, in this economy, there are a lot of unemployed college graduates, as well as under employed college graduates. I guess it is their fault they do not have a good job.

Of course there are those who were laid off, because of the economy, jobs being outsourced, companies folded.

But then that is their fault too, by your statement.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 3:43:45 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

One TRUE god given right that neanderthals are trying hard as hell to control,
neanderthals thinkhaving  money is the only way people should procreate.


I could care less who procreates and who does not.  I just don't like being held financially responsible for their decisions.



Nice Christian attitude


Do you own anything other than the clothes on your back? If so, why? Why have you not given them to the nearest charity? That's not very christian of you. :/

But then again, neither is judging others...hm, we're not doing so hot here...

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 3:57:51 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline 		Jlf1961, your post gives me a good example to use. The definition of selfishness has changed over the decades. It used to simply mean 'concern with one's own interests.' It has since been warped into 'thinking only of yourself.'

Now, I am selfish. I do what benefits me. I also am a firm believer in a strong, fully funded educational system. Why? Because living in a country of educated people benefits me far greater than a country of dullards.

Another example I like to use: a man joins a voluntary fire department. Why? Because having a fire department in his community benefits him.

I give regularly to the American Red Cross. Why? Because I've watched them in action, and I believe it's important to support that organization. Why? Because I believe it benefits me.

Placing an importance on your own self-interest does not automatically exclude helping others.

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 4:14:57 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Simple. First thought."Fuck me, I am going to have to give something to someone. I don't like that"....

Not a clue which ones. But I am sure you get gov't benefit somewhere along the way....I doubt that I'd be crazy about paying for it


You have a job, you work. With the money you earn, you buy yourself a nice jacket. You meet me, I have a shitty job, and can't afford as nice of a jacket as you. I tell you you should give me that jacket, because I cannot afford to get it myself.

Now, what do you do?


Simple. I say, I really can't give you this jacket but I have another one that I can give you if you need a jacket.

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 4:17:22 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Simple. First thought."Fuck me, I am going to have to give something to someone. I don't like that"....

Not a clue which ones. But I am sure you get gov't benefit somewhere along the way....I doubt that I'd be crazy about paying for it


You have a job, you work. With the money you earn, you buy yourself a nice jacket. You meet me, I have a shitty job, and can't afford as nice of a jacket as you. I tell you you should give me that jacket, because I cannot afford to get it myself.

Now, what do you do?


Simple. I say, I really can't give you this jacket but I have another one that I can give you if you need a jacket.


But why can't I have that jacket? What right do you have to it over me?

_____________________________

The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

(in reply to DomYngBlk)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 4:17:31 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Not what this is about at all. Is about whether you are willing to help a person in need or would you rather hide behind your personal belief in "self determination". Its a cop out. A nice thing to tell yourself that it isn't your problem. That if you just keep driving the person will be passed and you can go onto your nice suburb and have a latte at starbucks


That is not what this is about, at all.  It is about having a voice is one's own contributions to society.  Do I believe in government charity?  Not particularly, but I do realize there are good reasons for it to exist.  What irks me to no ends is to see people (like some here in this thread) persist in demonizing anyone who doesn't agree with them, and by doing so try to negate their right to have a say in how tax money is spent.

Don't like the fundamentalist Christians?  Fine and dandy.
Detest the tree-hugger crowd?  Cool. 
Hate the right-wingers?  Peachy.
Loathe the bleeding heart liberals?   Okie dokie.

But try to suppress them and keep them from exercising their right to equal representation?  It's people like me you'll be fighting in the end.


Just sayin what is there. you want to hide behind god and country and capitalism on all other issues but when it comes to helping out your fellow countrymen you are like many others on these threads you say "no, thanks" and move on. Its cool. you believe and act how you want to but save me from yours and firm's moral superiority on these threads..makes me want to vomit

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Birth Control for Horses, Not for Women - 2/20/2011 4:19:12 PM   
DomYngBlk


Posts: 3316
Joined: 3/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

quote:

ORIGINAL: lazarus1983


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Simple. First thought."Fuck me, I am going to have to give something to someone. I don't like that"....

Not a clue which ones. But I am sure you get gov't benefit somewhere along the way....I doubt that I'd be crazy about paying for it


You have a job, you work. With the money you earn, you buy yourself a nice jacket. You meet me, I have a shitty job, and can't afford as nice of a jacket as you. I tell you you should give me that jacket, because I cannot afford to get it myself.

Now, what do you do?


Simple. I say, I really can't give you this jacket but I have another one that I can give you if you need a jacket.


But why can't I have that jacket? What right do you have to it over me?


Means that much to you. I'd give you the jacket.

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 60
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