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Kneeling - 2/19/2011 10:23:21 AM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline 		Hello fellow subbies, and dominants who have an opinion on kneeling ^__^

I wish to start a discussion on the subject of kneeling, as well as asking some questions about it in the contexts of health, and kink

1. How do you do it? There are many ways to kneel, several possible angles of the feet and legs. Do you have a specific technique in how you do it?

2. How does your owner feel about it, if applicable. Do they require you to kneel in their presence, or perhaps only sometimes when commanded? Perhaps they don't see an appeal in it at all.

3. How do you feel about it. Do you enjoy doing it? do you see any erotic appeal in the act ?

4. Most importantly, how do you manage it? I've been practising kneeling a lot recently, and it is quite tiring. I have quite a few bruises all over my lower legs, especially from kneeling on a hard kitchen floor, and it seems to hurt the knees and ankles first of all. Is it something you learn to cope with in time? is it a skill that can be learned and trained? Are there any longterm health risks associated with kneeling?


Some personal thoughts:

I find this form of kneeling to be most pleasing, personally: http://www.bondageblog.com/bondage-pictures/slave-kneeling-pinup.jpg
Note most importantly, the elongation of the feet and lower leg, flat on the ground with the soles skywards. I feel this pose makes the sub more vulnerable, and has a "more submissive" feeling to it. ^o^
The positioning of the hands in the above isn't really relevant. Bound wrists are fun too, but that's another topic. I've always had a bit of a fetish for bare feet too, and I think this pose shows them off nicely, but again, another topic.

I contrast the above, with a kneeling pose like this: http://www.fhionna.com/newimage/fhionna_184.jpg
Note the position of the feet this time, part of the sole is on the ground. I feel that this position shows more readiness and agression, that it's easier to get up from, less vulnerable, and hence, less submissive.

I would like to know everyone's thoughts on the matter ^^ I posted this in ask a sub because the most important thing I'm concerned about is the traning and safety aspects which I feel other subs would be more likely to know, but opinions from everyone are very welcome and appreciated ^_^

< Message edited by Nanako -- 2/19/2011 10:53:54 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 10:29:48 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Master enjoys me kneeling. Most times I don't think he cares how I kneel as long as I'm below him and open to him. How I kneel just depends on the situation.

I enjoy kneeling because it is symbolic of our relationship of who is in charge.

(in reply to Nanako)
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RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 10:45:46 AM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Master enjoys me kneeling. Most times I don't think he cares how I kneel as long as I'm below him and open to him. How I kneel just depends on the situation.

I enjoy kneeling because it is symbolic of our relationship of who is in charge.



Thank you for the reply. I'm interested in technical specifics, if you're willing to answer.

How long are you generally kneeling for, when you do it?
does it cause you pain?
Have you suffered any health complications as a result of it?
What kind of surfaces are you usually kneeling on ?

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 10:46:36 AM   
newsubnokc


Posts: 13
Joined: 2/16/2011
Status: offline 		My Master knows that i have bad knees and doesnt require me to kneel.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 10:47:37 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Like all of the forms of BDSM, we're not very focused on kneeling. It does happen from time to time but what it looks like is her sitting on the floor with her back against the couch watching TV while I'm sitting in the couch. That normally doesn't last long before I decide she's way the hell too far away and she ends up sitting on the couch.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Nanako)
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RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 10:52:37 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

How long are you generally kneeling for, when you do it?


Could be 5 minutes. It could be an hour. There is no specific amount of time. Most times when we are in private together or in certain friendly situations I'm kneeling, sitting at his feet.

quote:

does it cause you pain?


Sure, sometimes. I usually just change position or where I'm putting my weight.
quote:


Have you suffered any health complications as a result of it?


Not that I know of.

quote:

What kind of surfaces are you usually kneeling on ?


Rug, wood or laminate floors, grass, tile...what other kinds of flooring are there? LOL


(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 11:09:38 AM   
Kana


Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Master enjoys me kneeling. Most times I don't think he cares how I kneel as long as I'm below him and open to him. How I kneel just depends on the situation.

I enjoy kneeling because it is symbolic of our relationship of who is in charge.



Open meaning mouth agape and ready for sucking
*snickers*


_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 11:09:51 AM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder



quote:

How long are you generally kneeling for, when you do it?


Could be 5 minutes. It could be an hour. There is no specific amount of time. Most times when we are in private together or in certain friendly situations I'm kneeling, sitting at his feet.

quote:

does it cause you pain?


Sure, sometimes. I usually just change position or where I'm putting my weight.

I'm looking to know tuff like;

How long can you kneel before it starts to become painful
Has it become easier over time, as you do it more? Do you get less pain than you used to, or perhaps just more tolerance to it?
Do you ever reach a point where kneeling becomes too painful to continue doing?
Does your master ever help accomodate you, perhaps by putting down a pillow or blanket to kneel on

quote:


quote:

What kind of surfaces are you usually kneeling on ?


Rug, wood or laminate floors, grass, tile...what other kinds of flooring are there? LOL

I guess I should have been more specific. What I kind of wanted to know here, is how various surfaces would affectyour ansewer to the above questions. Are there some things you find too uncomfortable to kneel on, such as stone/sidewalk ?

Please forgive all these questions miss, though I hope you'll see they're not really fetish related. I looking for advice and experiences. ^_^

When I'm kneeling for a while, at the moment about 10 minutes, I start to feel like the circulation in my ankles is bad and it gets uncomfortable. Do you think this will get better with time ?



(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 11:24:37 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

When I'm kneeling for a while, at the moment about 10 minutes, I start to feel like the circulation in my ankles is bad and it gets uncomfortable. Do you think this will get better with time ?



Kneeling is awkward and uncomfortable for me, too. It's something to do with the shape of my knees, as well as high foot-arches. (Or so I was told when I was taking karate lessons a while ago.) Nothing seemed to alleviate the discomfort other than pads on my knees and arches. Shame - it *is* kind of a disadvantage for a sub not to be able to kneel easily.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 11:28:41 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		oh yeah.....mouth open, legs open...he likes those <G>

and it's kneeling. Been kneeling since well...childhood. I'm not old, I don't have bad knees, I'm healthy so yeah, I don't have any kinds of problems with kneeling. Of course my legs go numb sometimes. I just switch the weight or the way I'm kneeling. It's not a big deal. I've never complained to him about kneeling so no he doesn't really accomodate me with pillows or anything like that. I'm sure if I asked though he would help out depending on his mood and how sadistic he was feeling.

Yes there are some things I kneel on that are more uncomfortable than others but I don't make a big hoopla about it. I deal with it and find a way to make it more comfortable if I can. If not then so be it. I'll get over it.

You've never kneeled before you got into bdsm? Never did it in grade school when you all sat around playing duck duck goose or as the teacher read a book to the class or when you were sitting around with your girlfriends talking about boys? Or even as an adult sitting on the floor below your boyfriend as you both watched a movie?

Maybe it's just me......


(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 11:50:06 AM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

and it's kneeling. Been kneeling since well...childhood. I'm not old, I don't have bad knees, I'm healthy so yeah, I don't have any kinds of problems with kneeling.


This is good to know ^^ I had heard rumours that extensive kneeling would lead to arthritis and thrombosis later in life


quote:

You've never kneeled before you got into bdsm?

Not really, I've always been more of a person to sit cross legged. I know many people who are incapable of that, but I've done it all my life.

quote:

or when you were sitting around with your girlfriends talking about boys? Or even as an adult sitting on the floor below your boyfriend as you both watched a movie?

I don't know if you've read my profile and are just humouring me, or if I should take this as a compliment on my convincingness ^__^




(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 11:56:02 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		lol...no I didn't read your profile but how romantic and nice and fun is it to sit at your partner's feet while watching a movie as he wraps his legs around you or runs his fingers through your hair or side of your face?

and I've never heard the health rumors. I guess they could be true if you have health problems to begin with or you are overweight or are kneeling nonstop without ever moving for hours upon hours upon hours. If you're concerned maybe ask your physician about it.


(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 12:11:39 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		In a D/s sense, kneeling is both practical and symbolic.

It's also hard on the knees for many. Ankles and/or lower back, too. With that in mind, I avoid having her kneel on hard surfaces and for most occasions, she has a padded rug specifically for when I want her kneeling.

I basically require two types of kneel. If the girl's in trouble, there's a formal kneel where only her knees are bent and she's otherwise upright. Always naked, knees spread wide and if her wrists aren't tied behind then both hands behind her head with elbows right back and fingers interlocked. And her eyes better not be anywhere but holding mine.

The more common informal kneel is almost as much her choice as mine. Whatever is most comfortable for her though I prefer knees close together (ie, lady-like) unless I'm otherwise messing with her private bits. Hands on knees if not tied behind etc.

I had one sub who could comfortably kneel for over an hour with knees together but with feet spread wide enough to place her butt cheeks on the floor. I even tried it myself but had to conclude that even though females are generally more flexible than males, she was more rubber than bones and joints.... lol

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 12:30:42 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako

1. How do you do it? There are many ways to kneel, several possible angles of the feet and legs. Do you have a specific technique in how you do it?

2. How does your owner feel about it, if applicable. Do they require you to kneel in their presence, or perhaps only sometimes when commanded? Perhaps they don't see an appeal in it at all.


Greetings,

I enjoy kneeling and don't experience any discomfort. I'm very flexible and was an avid yoga enthusiast in the past which always helps. In terms of positions, I prefer a side sitting pose for long durations and an alert stance that emphasizes ones extension when attentiveness is required. Aesthetics are important and the elongation of the spine looks more appealing in my mind.

quote:

Most importantly, how do you manage it? I've been practising kneeling a lot recently, and it is quite tiring. I have quite a few bruises all over my lower legs, especially from kneeling on a hard kitchen floor, and it seems to hurt the knees and ankles first of all. Is it something you learn to cope with in time? is it a skill that can be learned and trained? Are there any longterm health risks associated with kneeling?


Are you engaging in warm up procedures or immediately entering the kneel? If it isn't a position you're accustomed to being in and you're not terribly flexible or active, you should prepare the body beforehand whenever possible. Employing a stretching routine and including a few exercises that will increase mobility in those areas is always helpful. You needn't utilize a machine. Side leg raises and squats are a good way to start. In addition, the male styled pushup is very good for the back. However, if you have health concerns you'll need to be mindful and make adjustments. Some people with lower back issues find the side sitting pose more comfortable than its more erect cousin.

Although I'm not Gorean in practice, you may find viable options by taking note of the slave positions mentioned in that dynamic. I utilized a few in the past with my prior owner. He was very protocol oriented and maintained an expectation that I would sit underfoot at all times. As for the images, the first didn't load. The site returned an error. The second is far too raised for my tastes and his hand placement detracts from the image and does little to highlight his dexterity.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


_____________________________

His will; my fate.

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 1:02:21 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nanako


I wish to start a discussion on the subject of kneeling, as well as asking some questions about it in the contexts of health, and kink


Good subject. You might want to start with googling prepatellar bursitis (or housemaids knee) for some of the health part of the question.


quote:

1. How do you do it? There are many ways to kneel, several possible angles of the feet and legs. Do you have a specific technique in how you do it?


My days of kneeling are pretty much over. Those of us who were in gymnastics or rode a lot often have knee problems and I did both. I understand jockey's are particularly susceptible to knee problems because of all the strain their profession puts on them. In the days when kneeling wasn't the issue it is now, as I recall, it was just sitting back lightly on the legs (open or closed as was required at any given time) and it was never for overtly long periods of time because I started gymnastics at a age 7 and screwed my knees up when I was still pretty young and now, at 50, they are a mess.


quote:

2. How does your owner feel about it, if applicable. Do they require you to kneel in their presence, or perhaps only sometimes when commanded? Perhaps they don't see an appeal in it at all.


It's something he enjoys me doing on occasion and despite the protests my body makes, I do make the attempt. It's a hell of a lot easier getting on to my knees then it is getting up from that position but he's pretty good about giving me a hand to help me.

quote:

3. How do you feel about it. Do you enjoy doing it? do you see any erotic appeal in the act ?


I love it. I love the way it makes me feel.. small and vulnerable, transparent, open, shy. I wish I could be in that position much more frequently than I am.

quote:

4. Most importantly, how do you manage it? I've been practising kneeling a lot recently, and it is quite tiring. I have quite a few bruises all over my lower legs, especially from kneeling on a hard kitchen floor, and it seems to hurt the knees and ankles first of all. Is it something you learn to cope with in time? is it a skill that can be learned and trained? Are there any longterm health risks associated with kneeling?


Pain is generally an indication that something is wrong. Google the term above to start your research on the health risks and then keep researching until you are satisfied with your knowledge base. Humans were not really designed to spend a lot of time on their knees but we certainly have the ability to do so. It will be up to you whether or not the risk to benefit ratio is worth the price you may have to pay in the future. You can also try googling for some exercises to keep your knees supple and flexible if it appeals to you.



_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 2:44:39 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i like kneeling =) i love the symbolism of it, and the way it feels; it's relaxing, and it also helps me focus, if i want to maintain a headspace.
i don't do a lot of it now because i'm not in a power exchange relationship now, but in my previous one, i would kneel for a variety of reasons, though not super often -- he wasn't too big on protocol and such.

1. as far as technique goes, i mostly tucked my legs in under me (on my knees) with the tops of my feet flat on the floor. that was more comfortable for me than trying to keep my feet up like the second picture you provided (the first one just says "forbidden."

2. it was a function/symbolism thing

3. see the preface =p

4. i've never really had problems with kneeling. for me, the most awkward part is getting up. are you a member of submissiveguide, by any chance? there was a writing there about different ways to kneel, different ways to put your feet, graceful ways to get up, etc.
some people kneel and kick their lower legs out to the side, like casually sitting on your knees. for some it's less painful, and that style of kneel can be easier to get back up out of, too.

i have to agree with porcelaine (her avatar is another great style of kneeling) about stretching and such -- for some, the ligaments in the knees and legs, and the calf muscles can be really tight and make kneeling difficult and uncomfortable. there are a variety of stretches you can use for these -- hop on google and poke around. i've always been pretty flexible and thanks to belly dance and yoga, i dont have a lot of flexibility problems, but i know plenty of people who do.

also, kneeling mats are EASY to make if you've got a sewing machine, a square of fabric and something heavy/durable for the bottom side, and some polyfil. they take like 10 minutes, and can really save your knees, especially when kneeling on less than ideal surfaces.

(in reply to Nanako)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 5:32:08 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I'm 56 years old. Of course it's painful and I can't do it for long periods. If we're watching tv and he decides he wants a blow job then I get a couple of thick pillows to cushion my knees. Otherwise, I just sit on the floor cross legged instead. If I kneel for more than a few minutes then I can't stand back up, he has to haul me up and I'll be in a lot of pain until I can walk again.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 5:44:15 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline 		Haii everyone. Thank you for the responses ^_^

I apologise for the first picture not working, I found it through google images and I guess the site admin has some silly security that checks the referrer url. My time to edit the OP has now expired so here are two (different, but very similar) images to stand in it's place, and which demonstrate what i meant

http://www.restrainedelegance.com/preview/lexicon1/re6IMG_9099d.jpg
http://www.bondagerotica.com/articles/sword_and_sandal_movies/slave_girl_slavegirl_looks/bound_naked_slave_beauty.jpg

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 5:54:32 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

prepatellar bursitis
quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

I had one sub who could comfortably kneel for over an hour with knees together but with feet spread wide enough to place her butt cheeks on the floor. I even tried it myself but had to conclude that even though females are generally more flexible than males, she was more rubber than bones and joints.... lol


Wow, that position hits the knee tendons pretty hard :(

I'm scared to do it without medical advice. I gave it a try and I couldn't get all the way down without feeling like I was going to break something ;-;

(in reply to Focus50)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Kneeling - 2/19/2011 6:00:06 PM   
Nanako


Posts: 222
Joined: 2/7/2011
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
I enjoy kneeling and don't experience any discomfort. I'm very flexible and was an avid yoga enthusiast in the past which always helps.


How long ago are we talking, miss. and how long for ? :o
Would you recommend yoga as a good activity to take up for those seeking flexibility ?

quote:

Aesthetics are important and the elongation of the spine looks more appealing in my mind.

what about in his mind?

quote:

Are you engaging in warm up procedures or immediately entering the kneel? If it isn't a position you're accustomed to being in and you're not terribly flexible or active, you should prepare the body beforehand whenever possible. Employing a stretching routine and including a few exercises that will increase mobility in those areas is always helpful. You needn't utilize a machine. Side leg raises and squats are a good way to start. In addition, the male styled pushup is very good for the back. However, if you have health concerns you'll need to be mindful and make adjustments. Some people with lower back issues find the side sitting pose more comfortable than its more erect cousin.


This all seems like a good idea. I hadn't thought of warm up exercises. Perhaps that will help alleviate symptoms.

quote:

Although I'm not Gorean in practice, you may find viable options by taking note of the slave positions mentioned in that dynamic. I utilized a few in the past with my prior owner. He was very protocol oriented and maintained an expectation that I would sit underfoot at all times.

I don't suppose you might know an online resource of such positions? I'm rather scared to go and ask the gorean forum personally ;-;
They've never seemed very welcoming of outsiders.(._.)

quote:


As for the images, the first didn't load. The site returned an error. The second is far too raised for my tastes and his hand placement detracts from the image and does little to highlight his dexterity.

I can't fix the image now, but I've posted some alternatives a couple of posts up


(in reply to porcelaine)
Profile   Post #: 20
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