Making peace with the Establishment ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/21/2011 11:24:36 PM)

It is considered an act of maturity to make peace with the establishment,

Why ?

What does it mean to make peace with the establishment  and is it in reality a good idea ?




gungadin09 -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/21/2011 11:30:39 PM)

Did i miss something? This thread wins the award for random.

Out of curiosity, *who* considers it mature to make peace with the establishment? And *what* establishment?

pam




littlewonder -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/21/2011 11:57:48 PM)

I have no idea what you are talking about but if you mean does it show a sign of maturity to grow up and not rebel against authority and everyone else in the world then yes, it does show a sign of maturity.

Pick and choose your battles because you truly believe in what you are doing, not just because they are "authority" or "the establishment" and you think it's kewl to do so.




Aneirin -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 12:03:30 AM)


Proposition #50: Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity.



One of the questions in the popular political affiliation quiz website Political Compass. org

Which I believe is derived from a quote by British Historian:  A.J.P Taylor ;


There is nothing more agreeable in life than to make peace with the Establishment - and nothing more corrupting. - A.J.P Taylor.

According to Wikipedia ;

The Establishment









tazzygirl -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 1:33:19 AM)

You are asking this question based upon a Political web test???

It means only what you want it to mean. If you believe it means that as you grow older, you may grow wiser and learn to pick and choose your battles, then that is what it means.

If you believe it means we should all learn to kiss the ass of those in charge, again, that is the meaning it holds for you.

The answers all lie in the definitions of the words "maturity" and "make peace".




tweakabelle -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 1:52:30 AM)

Does this mean that Mick Jagger finally getting the "Sir Mick Jagger" status was a sign of maturity?

And whose maturity - Jagger's or the Establishment's? Or were they both just being big little boys?


Edited at the Keith Richards Memorial Kindergarten [:D]




tazzygirl -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 1:55:34 AM)

Define maturity then make peace, then decide for yourself... lol

I see this as one of those philosophical questions one should ask themselves... and be answerable only unto themselves.




Aneirin -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 2:58:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You are asking this question based upon a Political web test???

It means only what you want it to mean. If you believe it means that as you grow older, you may grow wiser and learn to pick and choose your battles, then that is what it means.

If you believe it means we should all learn to kiss the ass of those in charge, again, that is the meaning it holds for you.

The answers all lie in the definitions of the words "maturity" and "make peace".


The term is not only on the political website, for I have heard it used before in conversation, for it seems to have become part of modern parlance in some quarters, even psychology.




tazzygirl -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 3:10:42 AM)

I think both are required. Maturity and immaturity... making peace and raising hell... depends on the topic.




gungadin09 -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 7:11:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Proposition #50: Making peace with the establishment is an important aspect of maturity.

One of the questions in the popular political affiliation quiz website Political Compass. org

Which I believe is derived from a quote by British Historian:  A.J.P Taylor ;


There is nothing more agreeable in life than to make peace with the Establishment - and nothing more corrupting. - A.J.P Taylor.


It was given as a yes or no question? Does the quiz give any interpretation of what different answers mean?

In general, i consider "making peace with the establishment" to mean a kind of sellout. Throwing in the towel and accepting that "that's just the way the world is" is an excuse for ignorance and corruption. Giving up the fight and abandoning idealism and principals for the path of least resistance. The "if you can't beat 'em, joint 'em" mentality.

That's my answer without knowing any more specific details.

pam




DesFIP -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 12:31:23 PM)

Actually the true sign of maturity is not in accepting the establishment but in the recognition that if you want to change the world, you start by changing yourself instead of demanding everyone else changes to fit you.




cpK69 -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 3:33:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What does it mean to make peace with the establishment  and is it in reality a good idea ?




Since peace is something that comes from within, to me, it means coming to terms with me, in relation to ‘the establishment’; so, yes, it is a good idea.

I don’t think that is what is meant by the quote posted, though. I suspect it refers to something like following blindly; joining in, which isn’t an idea I agree with.

Kim




MercTech -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 3:44:28 PM)

Maturity and peace with the establishment... or is it having enough perspective to not try and tear down what is in place when you don't have something to replace it workably at hand?

Stefan




January -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 3:44:46 PM)

quote:

It is considered an act of maturity to make peace with the establishment


To me this quote simply means that when you get old, you are the establishment. It's just a natural evolution, not a comment on ethics or correctness of revolution.

January




cpK69 -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 3:50:08 PM)

I suspect, as long as the establishment exists, something workable to replace it with, is unlikely to ever be at hand.

Kim




Lucylastic -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 3:50:23 PM)

FR
Sod that for a game of soldiers..
Growing old is mandatory, Growing up ISNT
Making peace with the establishment means Im dead
May I RIP




Aneirin -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/22/2011 7:51:38 PM)

Thinking more on this,( Hey, I am redecorating the house, painting everything gives one time to think), Perhaps people are forced to make peace with the establishment via growing older, I mean, as we, well some of us grow older, we find a mate, buy a nest, produce an offspring then spend the rest of one's useful life paying off the debts of that, and any other debts incurred by living as the majority do in the western world. If one follows that path, then what else is there to do, but submit to the status quo, as the status quo, the establishment has you by the short and curlies, you are locked in by responsibility and debt. In which case why bother fighting, when one is stuck anyway, so making peace with the establishment allows one to give up fighting and just accept things the way they are and there battle through like nearly everyone else until such a time comes one is free from financial and responsibility burdens and at last, one can attempt to live their lives as they would have wanted before society pressured the path one was to take.

But to accept the status quo, is what the establishment wants, as it means more lambs to the slaughter and less hassle for them, they can rule with less worry, which goes onto an earlier perception I had that society exists for families, not those that choose not to follow the almost accepted design, where to be single is either frowned upon, suspected of being weird, lonely or just a variable in the equation that does not compute.

Perhaps the societal expectation that we all feel from an early age, that of following the mould set by our families and those before them is how society is structured, structured with families in mind.

The singles are generally thought of those who have not grown up, they are the unknown quantities, that are more often than not idealistic and full of change is needed, something the establishment worries about, as it could mean an end to their reign if the notions take hold and become popular.

But in this present age, those who choose to remain single are representative of a growing sector of people, maybe the establishment worries, as to placate the rebellious singles, the families might start to feel to feel the pinch.

In which case, I personally find making peace with the establishment abhorrent, as to make peace means to accept what there is and give up fighting for a better world.




Termyn8or -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/23/2011 12:43:54 AM)

Then it must be considered that maturity is not all positive, that there are negative aspects to it. This means adapting to your environment. Maybe it could be put that selling out is a gradual process.

Perhaps time shares it's properties with all of it's aspects. A young Man can't wait to get old, take on authority and responsibility, and is eager to do so. How many regret it ? How many finally do, not the ones who have blown it, but even those who make it. Those who have a wonderful family and life, everything, for some reason many would go back.

If it was terrible, they might go back to redo it, if it was great, then to relive it. But in either case, the desire is quite common. How many have said "If I had to do it over again......", but then it would be easier to count those who don't.

In that context, making peace with the establishment is just one part of a larger subject. A return to "better" days.

T^T




DesFIP -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/23/2011 12:47:52 PM)

It also means your perspective changes as you grow up and learn more. The fact that at 17 you decided school was a major waste of time doesn't mean that you don't appreciate being forced to get that diploma when you need it to get the job you want, or to be accepted into the training program you want and that you don't see its value in a whole new way when you have a 17 year old/




Termyn8or -> RE: Making peace with the Establishment ? (2/23/2011 10:54:41 PM)

"The fact that at 17 you decided school was a major waste of time doesn't mean that you don't appreciate being forced to get that diploma when you need it to get the job you want,"

True, but some didn't need it. However that first job is the test. If you can't agree with the terms get out. You may see the company doing something wrong, wanna be a whistleblower ? Yes or no ?

If you make it by the hour, you have sold your time to the company. Capitulation is capitulation, whether it is for pay or other reward. Most sell out well before getting a job anyway. Comes with the territory.

T^T




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