RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 8:12:55 PM)

OK Tom, since you seem to oppose the CRTC's decision, perhaps you can tell me this: What is the advantage of allowing a news organization to knowingly lie?




Sanity -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 8:27:28 PM)


The advantage is that you and I and everyone else may get to exercise their divine right to practice free speech, agree or disagree or even lie. MY problem is trusting the enforcers to decide what their idea of a lie is, and the chilling effect such laws will have on the legitimate practice of political speech. The forms that are truly unacceptable may be adequately dealt with by the use of oppositional free speech or through the slander statutes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

OK Tom, since you seem to oppose the CRTC's decision, perhaps you can tell me this: What is the advantage of allowing a news organization to knowingly lie?




rulemylife -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 8:45:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The advantage is that you and I and everyone else may get to exercise their divine right to practice free speech, agree or disagree or even lie. MY problem is trusting the enforcers to decide what their idea of a lie is, and the chilling effect such laws will have on the legitimate practice of political speech.


Bullshit!

Free speech is a far different subject from news organizations that present themselves as impartial and intentionally deceive their audience.

If it was CNN we would never hear the end of your whining.






Charles6682 -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 8:53:34 PM)

I am actually someone as conservative as Stephen Harper is Prime Minister of Canada.He would fit in real well with the "Good old boy"Republican party here in America.I think America should have a simliar law like Canada has,where you can't lie on the news.Fixed news would be out of buisness in no time here in America.With all their misleading "news".I don't even watch Fixed news at all anymore.I use to watch it sometimes just out of curiousity.However,it was always the same right wing nonsense as always.Fixed news had one real liberal in Allan Colmes but he was mostly drowned out by Sean Hannity.I usually watch CNN now whenever I do watch national news.Its a more real "fair and balanced" appoarch to the news.




Arpig -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 9:19:57 PM)

quote:

The advantage is that you and I and everyone else may get to exercise their divine right to practice free speech, agree or disagree or even lie. MY problem is trusting the enforcers to decide what their idea of a lie is, and the chilling effect such laws will have on the legitimate practice of political speech. The forms that are truly unacceptable may be adequately dealt with by the use of oppositional free speech or through the slander statutes.
How does a news agency lying in any way insure your ability to do so, remember that lying in the media is a halmark of totalitarian regimes the world over....seems to me that it stifles free speech rather than encourages it. As to your problem, well, as I have repeatedly tried to explain, there are no enforcers deciding what a lie is. If a broadcaster is accused of knowingly lying about something (say like O'Reilly claiming a video of a protest in Sacramento was of a protest in Wisconsin), all they have to do is show that they had reason to believe what they broadcast was true at the time they broadcast it. How to do so, welll show the facts and research upon which they based the story. If that research is later shown to be wrong (say like the famous WMDs in Iraq), well the broadcaster is still in the clear unless they continue to broadcast the original story which has since been shown to be untrue.
Its like the stories coming out of Libya...there were reports of Gadaffi using aircraft to attack the protesters, most responsible news agencies reported just that....the fact that there were reports of it happening. Thus they were not claiming to have actual knowledge of it. This morning I saw a CNN report where the reporters claimed they actually saw and filmed such an attack....thus the original news stories have been confirmed.
However, if a broadcaster aired a story about the Israelis actually being the ones making the air attacks (for example), while knowing full well that this wasn't so, well then when called on it, they would simply have to present the evidence they had that is was so. Obviously they couldn't do so, and thus would be penalised, however if they had some sort of credible source for that story, and had reported it by saying that they had reports or claims that it was actually the Israelis, then they wouldn't have to prove that it was the Israelis, they would simply have to show that they had indeed received such reports because they had only reported that they had been told that.

Its a subtle difference, but it is an important one. Political speech is in no way stifled, unless your idea of political speech requires one to lie. Personally my idea of political speech is just the opposite...it is so important that it requires honesty. Opinion, perhaps erroneous opinion, sure, but outright lies told in the full knowledge that they are lies? No thanks!





Lucylastic -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 9:27:05 PM)

Oh we still get the chance to be lied to by fox if we want it... there are several fox channels..its just that they arent allowed to broadcast their lies here FROM Canada...
And of course there is the parliamentary channel too
By the way sanity, why arent you over in the thread about billo putting up a sacremento disagreement clip and labelling it as wisconsin??
surely you can justify it??





TheHeretic -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 10:09:19 PM)

Well, Arpig, you need to keep in mind that the purpose of such liberty is not to permit lying, but to deny the government powers of censorship and prior restraint. That some will run with scissors is a consequence we just need to live with.





Arpig -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 10:20:48 PM)

Sorry, but I just don't see how not allowing a news broadcaster to knowingly lie in any way infringes freedom of speech.




TheHeretic -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 10:32:50 PM)

Okay. I don't think either of us are planning to emigrate.




Arpig -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 10:40:36 PM)

Oh lord no!! As much as I admire the US, I just wouldn't make it there




tweakabelle -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 11:08:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


MY problem is trusting the enforcers to decide what their idea of a lie is, and the chilling effect such laws will have on the legitimate practice of political speech.



This argument is at very best disingenuous.

What is being proposed as I understand it, is that broadcasters have the right to broadcast lies. So the broadcasters decide before they broadcast what's a lie and what isn't. The decision is not made by the regulators.

Surely a far more important question is why would any respectable news outlet seek or need a right to deliberately broadcast lies? Given its often fictitious content and notoriously biased slant, any fool can see why Fox News might need such a right.

Doesn't it make you worry that apparently denial of this 'right' to tell lies means that Fox can't operate in Canada? This is an implicit admission that they tell lies deliberately. Why do they need to be able to tell deliberate lies to operate? Is Fox's perspective that false, that pathetic that they need to invent justification for it? It seems so.

The media's role in society is based on it publishing the truth and informing citizens. To allow it a 'right' to lie is to debase the media.




SexyBossyBBW -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/2/2011 11:15:00 PM)

Damn! [:@]   The one thing I would gladly have outsourced to any country (no offense meant to Canada), won't be.  *shrugs*   M




joether -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/3/2011 12:28:32 AM)

I believe its a safe bet the Founding Fathers did not have Fox New's style of 'journalism' in mind when they created the 1st Amendment. If anything, they would have viewed Fox News, as the propaganda machine of the wealthy elite and corrupted noblity of England; In short, an enemy of liberty!

How is it, that conservatives are the most against totalitarian/socialist regimes, and yet, accept such 'news' without thought or question from people seeking to do just that? If Fox News, told conservatives to hand in their firearms to the police stations, within two months of constant conditioning, every conservative would be without a butter knife, let alone a AK. Such is the sway, Fox News holds over conservatives in general is simply shocking and frightening.




Sanity -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/3/2011 2:27:47 PM)


So, the Ministry of truth is now officially open for business in Canada.

[image]http://s1.hubimg.com/u/25200_f260.jpg[/image]

What could possibly go wrong?




DomKen -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/3/2011 2:32:58 PM)

Actually inSanity, this isn't a new rule. It has been the rule for decades and it has worked just fine. Just like the fairness doctrine worked just fine here until Raygun decided he and his fellow travelers needed to be able to spew lies and hate with impunity.




mnottertail -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/3/2011 2:33:05 PM)

You could be stuck in the mid-80's with wrinklemeat and it's already beyond the thousands. 




mnottertail -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/3/2011 2:41:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

[image]http://s1.hubimg.com/u/25200_f260.jpg[/image] 


Hold up now, I thought you were the poster child for the freedoms they enjoy in Iraq.  Who is this cunt, Malkin? 




thishereboi -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/3/2011 2:45:12 PM)

quote:

Who is this cunt?


Didn't she write cookbooks?




jlf1961 -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/3/2011 2:45:59 PM)

Sanity is correct for defending FOX news' right to spew lies and political propaganda on a daily basis. Lets face it, IF FOX news ever broadcast anything that was true, they would be out of business.




mnottertail -> RE: Fox News Will Not Be Moving Into Canada After All (3/3/2011 2:47:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

Who is this cunt?


Didn't she write cookbooks?



LOL.  When did Betty Crocker go blonde?  Next you'll be telling me she bleached her anus.





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