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RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 3:21:08 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

will not be infringed


A better way to explain could be that anybody who thinks there's any absolutes in life - including the constitution - isn't grown up enough to be posting here.

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RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 5:29:01 PM   
Real0ne


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I assure you that some day you will fucking die.

People like you are funny, next you will tell me that you cant prove a negative... another myth LOL

you need to grow up


so back to the thread;

in·fringe/inˈfrinj/Verb2. Act so as to limit or undermine (something); encroach on: "infringe on his privacy"

the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


that means ZERO regulation

people do not understand the most rudimentary english now days.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 5:32:13 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

fucking die


I hope to die in the saddle, but the odds are really kinda low.

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 5:33:26 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

quote:

to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.  that means ZERO regulation    people do not understand the most rudimentary english now days.


Yeah, it's all them commies in congress and the courts that keep me from collecting my favorite arms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnEWTgUzIt0




Real, it means that the right to keep arms will not be infringed you idiot, but regulations can be placed to specify weapons that might be a danger to the public, LIKE AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.



Here I will correct that for you:

Real, it means that the right to keep AND BEAR arms will not be infringed you idiot, regulations can be placed to specify weapons that might be a danger to the public, ACCEPT YOU CAN INFRINGE ON AUTOMATIC WEAPONS as much as you want.


There glad I could help!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/4/2011 5:35:28 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 5:34:55 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

ACCEPT YOU CAN INFRINGE ON AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.


And what is your authority for that?

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 5:37:56 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

quote:

ACCEPT YOU CAN INFRINGE ON AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.


And what is your authority for that?



quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Real, it means that the right to keep arms will not be infringed you idiot, but regulations can be placed to specify weapons that might be a danger to the public, LIKE AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jack8007)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 5:51:35 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

what is your authority for that?


Jlf may be a great guy, but he's not what any court is going to take for legal authority.  

The ass you pull your ideas from may smell like fucking roses, but it's still not authority.

Hate to break it to you, but you aren't going to show up in district court talking like you do, and last 20 seconds.   We know you're just fine, but if you'll just do as the bailiff says, nobody will get hurt, & we'll have you back on the funny farm in no time.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 5:55:28 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

regulations can be placed to specify weapons that might be a danger to the public, LIKE AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.


Soooo, guys, why is one weapon a danger to the public, and another one isn't?   And who decides that?

And while we're at it, how do we square "danger to the public" (like influenza or Lehman Bros) with "shall not be infringed?"   We can start by noting the 2nd amendment says nothing about "danger to the public", but it sure says, "shall not be infringed".

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 6:17:07 PM   
Real0ne


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

quote:

regulations can be placed to specify weapons that might be a danger to the public, LIKE AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.


Soooo, guys, why is one weapon a danger to the public, and another one isn't?   And who decides that?

And while we're at it, how do we square "danger to the public" (like influenza or Lehman Bros) with "shall not be infringed?"   We can start by noting the 2nd amendment says nothing about "danger to the public", but it sure says, "shall not be infringed".



now ya did it!  I have to agree with you.

infringe is just another way to say trespass on the case.

I am glad you picked up the lunacy between one weapon being a public danger and the implication of the oppostie for the other one. LOL


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jack8007)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 6:37:54 PM   
jack8007


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quote:

I have to agree with you.


And that would be, because you don't understand enough English to see that I posed questions, and did not state a position.



(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 6:56:05 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

quote:

regulations can be placed to specify weapons that might be a danger to the public, LIKE AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.


Soooo, guys, why is one weapon a danger to the public, and another one isn't?   And who decides that?

And while we're at it, how do we square "danger to the public" (like influenza or Lehman Bros) with "shall not be infringed?"   We can start by noting the 2nd amendment says nothing about "danger to the public", but it sure says, "shall not be infringed".




I suggest you look at the National Firearms Act of 1934, also known as title two of the national firearms laws.

You will find that automatic weapons or machine guns are regulated as NFA weapons, requiring a special license to own.

By the way, both the NFA and the gun control act of 1968 have been upheld by the supreme court in United States vs Miller.

quote:

two men challenged their convictions for transporting an unregistered 12-gauge sawed off shot gun across state lines, a violation of the National Firearms Act. The Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment does not guarantee the right to keep and bear a double-barreled, sawed off, 12-gauge shot gun, because its possession did not have "some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia."





quote:

Congressional power to regulate firearms stems from the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. The Commerce Clause empowers the federal government to regulate commercial activity between the states and commerce with foreign countries. Generally speaking, states and the federal government have successfully (1)denied certain individuals, i.e., convicted felons and the mentally incompetent, the right to own firearms; (2) required licenses and made owners pass afirearms safety examination (3) made illegal the possession and transfer of certain firearms; and (4) required registration for certain classes of firearms.
The National Firearms Act of 1934, still in effect today, was passed to hinder acquisition of certain dangerous weapons, including machine guns and sawed-off shotguns. Key components of this legislation included heavy taxes on themanufacturing and distribution of firearms and required registration throughout production, distribution, and sale. The Federal Firearms Act of 1938 provided for federal licensing of firearms dealers, regulated firearm transportation across state lines by dealers, outlawed the transportation of stolen gunswith the manufacturer's mark eradicated or changed, and outlawed firearms from being sent to fugitives, indicted defendants or convicted felons.
The National Firearms Act was later amended significantly by the Gun ControlAct of 1968, passed in the wake of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy and others. The Gun Control Act also repealed the 1938 Federal FirearmsAct. and replaced it with increased federal control. The Gun Control Act contained far-reaching provisions, pertaining to licensing, sales, buyer requirements, and the importation of non-sporting guns. For all its measures, the lawdid not forbid the importation of unassembled weapon parts. Gun control advocates were not satisfied and called for stricter laws; owners and dealers decried the Gun Control Act as burdensome and infringing on personal rights. Finally in 1986, the Firearm Owners' Protection Act (also known as the Gun Control Act of 1986) was passed, amending the 1968 law. The 1986 Gun Control Act imposed some new restrictions and extended prior ones, but in some instances it eased requirements of the 1968 law. Machine guns made after 19 May 1986 were banned from sale by the 1986 Firearms Owners Protection Act.


Right to Bear Arms - Further Readings

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

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RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 7:05:27 PM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007
you don't understand enough English to see that I posed questions, and did not state a position.

Excuse me, Shakespeare, but I think he was agreeing with your closing statement to the effect that, "We can start by noting the 2nd amendment says nothing about "danger to the public", but it sure says, "shall not be infringed," which, not being a lawyer, I am able to recognize as a declarative sentence, not a question.

K.

(in reply to jack8007)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 7:38:02 PM   
truckinslave


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quote:

By the way, both the NFA and the gun control act of 1968 have been upheld by the supreme court in United States vs Miller.


Miller is a very interesting case, actually. It was long, and wrongly, cited by anti-gunners as precedent for their fond hope, since dashed, that the 2nd Amendment was not about individual rights. For those unfamiliar with the case, Mr Miller was a moonshiner (or bootlegger, perhaps) who was caught with some illegal booze and a sawed-off double-barreled shotgun. The feds charged him with the illegal possession of the shotgun.

SCOTUS upheld his conviction, and the NFA, on the basis, clearly and succinctly stated, that sawed-off shotguns are not suitable militia weapons. I have often wondered what the decision would have been had Mr Miller been carrying a weapon highly suitable, in the minds of the Justices, for the militia. Perhaps a full auto weapon, or the sawed-off Model 12 my grandfather carried in the trenches in WWI. I wonder what a more suitable case in the future might bring.

Miller did not uphold the GCA of 1968, btw. Only the NFA.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 8:11:17 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

quote:

I have to agree with you.


And that would be, because you don't understand enough English to see that I posed questions, and did not state a position.





I know you asked the right questions.   if you have not noticed most people are incapable of doing that.

You caught his inconsistency and double talk.   At least I thought you did.

the BIG biggie is the punch line,
"shall not be infringed".

that is a huge no trespass sign!



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/4/2011 8:16:09 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jack8007)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 8:15:08 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		I didnt say that miller supported the gun control act of 1968, as would have been easily noted by looking at the date of the case.

However, since 1968, the courts have upheld both acts.

As I stated, the NFA does regulate automatic weapons, if you dont believe it, read the law. To own an automatic, you have to have a special license issued by the federal government.

It was the possession of UNLICENSED automatic weapons that the ATF used as basis for a search warrant of the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, not the simple possession of firearms.

quote:

The domestic manufacture of new machine guns that civilians could purchase was effectively banned by language in the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 (also known as "McClure-Volkmer"). National Firearms Act


This means that one can only buy a machine gun manufactured before 1986.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 8:28:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

By the way, both the NFA and the gun control act of 1968 have been upheld by the supreme court in United States vs Miller.



who the hell is the supreme court?  LOL

12 man Jury of the people over-rules them!

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.



The strict rules of the common law is without a judge LOL

Well I better correct that.....  the judge has no power to make a judgment, only the court which is the jury has the power to do that in a purely common law tribunal.



do you think that is why they converted everything to commercial?  So the people had no say so?  Hmmmmmmm?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/4/2011 8:56:50 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/4/2011 8:55:58 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
It was the possession of UNLICENSED automatic weapons that the ATF used as basis for a search warrant of the Branch Davidian Compound in Waco, not the simple possession of firearms.


and they torched and slaughtered how many innocent men women and children over a fucking 200 dollar infringement license?


but thats ok because they are "gubmint" and they know whats best!



_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/5/2011 2:27:46 AM   
jack8007


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Joined: 8/14/2007
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quote:

sawed-off shotguns are not suitable militia weapons.


Yeah.  The jarheads who carried them throughout I Corps would have used them on you if you'd called them militia.

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/5/2011 3:29:55 AM   
jack8007


Posts: 392
Joined: 8/14/2007
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quote:

look at the National Firearms Act


So your answer would be, Congress decides.  And if Congress decides that anything with a barrel shorter than 3" is too easily concealed, and anything with a barrel longer than 2" has too much power for public safety, then what Congress says is alright.

Or, if Congress decides that it's OK for Bill Gates to hire Blackwater for a militia and run tanks through the streets, that's constitutional too.   Or if Congress decides to defer to the executive and judicial branches, that's constitutional too.   And if the Executive decides to ignore the legislature, you can take it up with the judiciary.

That, sir, is & has been my point.   There is nothing constitutional about what weapons are permissible.   It is ENTIRELY a matter of policy, made by the current government.   If the government (legislative, executive & judicial branches of Federal, state & local) government decides it's just fine to sell 30 round magazines to any incoherent idiot who walks in off the street, that is just as constitutional as deciding that anybody who can't tell a car from a gun doesn't have the good judgment to be trusted with the latter.   Or, if congress decides that every gun buyer needs to post an insurance bond against the chances that he's going to let his weapon fall into the hands of a Jared Loughner, or ship it off to some drug cartel, that's cool too.

As a matter of policy, guns are critical to our national debate, because they make people feel secure in their homes - secure from moose, Mexicans, muslims and mortgage meltdowns.    Next time we hear an airplane overhead, remember, it might be a Mexican muslim coming to drop a moose on your mortgage, so get out your ordnance and blast away!   Don't worry that your kid may not understand arithmetic - as long as he has a gun, them revenoor boys will be just shaking in their boots.

Meanwhile, I'm going to buy up all the Halliburton stock I can find.  If you can't beat them, you can at least suck their blood.



(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/5/2011 3:36:33 AM   
jack8007


Posts: 392
Joined: 8/14/2007
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quote:

torched and slaughtered how many innocent men women and children over a fucking 200 dollar infringement license?


Hey, dumbass, you'd be pissed too if some yokel made you wait a month to answer the door.   Remember that the next time you think about fucking with some revenoor.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 160
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