RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (Full Version)

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nighthawk3569 -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 4:27:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

A 3% shortfall of anything from anywhere shouldn't creat that kind of increase,


Wrong.
Hamburgers are $1.00, and can (barely) feed one person for one day. There are 100 people and 100 daily hamburgers. Everything is stable, and people are happy, until there are only 97 hamburgers per day.
The ignorant think the new price of hamburgers will be $0.97


RIGHT!
Hardly a valid example. In your example, no one's making up the shortfall.

'hawk




nighthawk3569 -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 4:43:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

Oh! Wait! I forgot, that wouldn't make anybody any extra money, would it?


if you think those (evil) speculators are just picking money up off the sidewalk, why don't you buy an oil contract?



No, they're(those [evil]speculators)aren't picking money up off the sidewalk...they're picking it out of the motoring public's pockets.

Btw...you're a great one for taking a line out of context.

'hawk




Sanity -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 5:40:03 AM)


If  the petroleum industry could drill where its applied for permits to drill in all the places that Dims have locked them out of, if the petroleum industry could build refineries without fighting environmental extremists every inch of the way, if we could have had the nuclear plants and the coal plants and the hydro dams that leftists habitually oppose in a knee jerk fashion...

In other words, if we actually had the deregulation you mindlessly claim we have, we wouldnt have four dollar gas

quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

A deregulated financial system since 1980 (when that guy you jerk tears over was first elected) has resulted in $4 gas,...






EternalHoH -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 7:48:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

If  the petroleum industry could drill where its applied for permits to drill in all the places that Dims have locked them out of, if the petroleum industry could build refineries without fighting environmental extremists every inch of the way, if we could have had the nuclear plants and the coal plants and the hydro dams that leftists habitually oppose in a knee jerk fashion...




And all of the incremental value is for naught, all of its "added value" useless, if the end result is manipulated by what - what- a DEREGULATED futures market.








Sanity -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 8:21:48 AM)


Youre very sadly and very seriously confused. The market only reflects supply and demand, and the futures market merely goes off of perceptions of what the supply and demand will be in the near future, which is just an extension of the act of buying and selling commodities. What regulation are you crying about, do you want to outlaw buying and selling of commodities? Pull a Castro and shut down the free markets?

The president can and does manipulate the futures market by various means, for example choking off domestic production or enacting stiff conservation laws, and thats the real problem that you should be concerned with more than anything, the fucked up policies of our totally clueless regulator-in-chief. If he knew the first fucking thing about business he wouldnt pull all the public boners that he does




EternalHoH -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 8:29:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Pull a Castro and shut down the free markets?


I'm not saying that, you cocksucker, and you KNOW it.

NEVER have I said free markets must go in exchange for a 'Castro'.   What DOES have to go are the people gaming the system.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The market only reflects supply and demand, and the futures market merely goes off of perceptions of what the supply and demand will be in the near future, which is just an extension of the act of buying and selling commodities.




You still are in denial over how changes to regulations in the futures market has led to abuse of the system.






willbeurdaddy -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 8:53:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

SPECULATION CANNOT MATERIALLY IMPACT THE PRICE OF DELIVERED OIL. PERIOD.




LOL,  next you will be telling us is speculation in the real estate market could never drive up real estate prices.




Since you apparently dont understand the difference between commodities speculation and real estate speculation there is no point in your participation.

Are you saying Real Estate isn't a commodity? Tell that to the folks that invest in REIT's

Real Estate Investment Trust.

It's a commodity just like silver, oil, wheat or concentrated OJ



No, that isnt what I said. I said that you apparently dont realize that SPECULATION in real estate is not in the least bit analagous to SPECULATION in commodities. And by pressing it you proved that you dont. So here is as simple an explanation I can provide to someone as clueless as you are.

Title to real estate is immediately transferred at the agreed upon price, whether that is to an individual, corporation, REIT. A RE SPECULATOR takes possession of the RE, and may make improvements, hoping to RESELL at a higher price.

Commodities contracts are rarely settled by physical delivery. There is no ownership of the actual commodity when a futures contract is bought and sold. It is physcial delivery that establishes market price NOT what someone bet it would be delivered at.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 9:10:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Pull a Castro and shut down the free markets?


I'm not saying that, you cocksucker, and you KNOW it.

NEVER have I said free markets must go in exchange for a 'Castro'.   What DOES have to go are the people gaming the system.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

The market only reflects supply and demand, and the futures market merely goes off of perceptions of what the supply and demand will be in the near future, which is just an extension of the act of buying and selling commodities.




You still are in denial over how changes to regulations in the futures market has led to abuse of the system.





It wasnt changes to the regulations, it was lax enforcement of regulations that led to abuses in commodities.




EternalHoH -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 9:36:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

It wasnt changes to the regulations, it was lax enforcement of regulations that led to abuses in commodities.



So the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000 made no changes to regulations, eh?

http://www.stroock.com/SiteFiles/Pub134.pdf








willbeurdaddy -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 10:17:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

It wasnt changes to the regulations, it was lax enforcement of regulations that led to abuses in commodities.



So the Commodities Futures Modernization Act of 2000 made no changes to regulations, eh?

http://www.stroock.com/SiteFiles/Pub134.pdf







Can you read and understand English or is it your second language? Nowhere did I say there weren't changes, I said it was enforcement of regulations that led to the problems. (And, given your partisan attempt to lie about what I said, I'll point out that CFMA was under Clinton, along with the repeal of Glass-Steagall...the REAL cause of most of the problems in the economy. That is the regulatory change you SHOULD be whining about, if you had half a clue.




EternalHoH -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 11:22:03 AM)

quote:

(And, given your partisan attempt to lie about what I said, I'll point out that CFMA was under Clinton, along with the repeal of Glass-Steagall...the REAL cause of most of the problems in the economy. That is the regulatory change you SHOULD be whining about,



I already pointed that out on the top of page 4.  But then again, thats your partisan attempt at argument.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3586852/mpage_4/tm.htm

I guess English is your second language as well?




Sanity -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 11:35:23 AM)



Blame it on those damn free marketeers... [;)]

Stocks jump as oil drops






willbeurdaddy -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 11:42:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity



Blame it on those damn free marketeers... [;)]

Stocks jump as oil drops





As expected. See the other $5 a gallon thread.




Edwynn -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 6:21:17 PM)


FR


The Banking Modernization Act and the CFMA were both Phil Gramm's "Alien" babies that he planted into the belly of the financial system to gestate for a few years before ripping through the gut and screaming its cute little slimy face throughout the entire economy. Of course Clinton signed off on them; Greenspan assured him that the BMA was absolutely the most wonderful thing for the fin. system and Gramm succeeded in having the CFMA nested within another bill within another bill that was one of a multitude of bills in one huge appropriations bill.

Not that I would exculpate Clinton much, being as that he faithfully had a banker guy at Treasury and allowed Rubin and Summers and Greenspan et. al. to bully Berkesly Born (after she came on board as head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission) and stifled her every effort to reign in the cowboys in that rodeo.

But as to those clamoring for more deregulation, all I can ask is; just how much job loss is enough for you? The discussed items have cost 8.5 million jobs, and this morning's paper tells us about 8 more school closings, just in Dekalb county (one of Atlanta's counties), that after previous closings already. That's just one county.

Why don't you give us a number as to how many more jobs and schools you think we can dispense with, so that we can figure from that how much more deregulation to implement. Thanks.

As to the energy matter ...

I hate to break this to people thus far not aware of it, but the world is burning far too much oil as it is, for many reasons. We could have avoided much of what is happening now had the incentives and regulations implemented in the late 70's been sustained. By the early 80's there were several cars getting in the mid 50's MPG range and one or two at 62-64 MPG highway (all with just gasoline or diesel, no hybrids). But then the great dismantling started, in this case designating SUV's as "trucks", with their minimal MPG requirements. The High MPG cars were gone within a few years.

We need more efficiency for what fossil fuels we still want to use, and need to make a serious effort in finding alternatives other than plant-based fuel substitutes. As for nuclear; anywhere one was built, local electric rates skyrocketed, even with many millions in government handouts for the power companies. No thanks.

Unfortunately, higher fuel prices are the only way any of this more efficiency and smarter alternatives are going to happen. As long as the politicians refuse to take away the ridiculous tax incentives to oil companies which have kept fuel prices artificially low for many decades (as Chevron and Exon take turns paying zero US taxes), the higher price needs come about however it can, for sake of making less environmentally destructive means and habits economically competitive.


For a brief bit of good news, RBOB price has come down 10 cents in two days, meaning the at-the-pump increases should abate in about a week.


But for the long term, unless we think that devastating huge stretches of wild lands to extract the gunk from oil sands at $75-90 per bbl production cost (not counting the extra cost to refine the gunk) and pumping more smoke into the air are good things, we need focus more on promoting the technology to further efficiency (which will automatically reduce emissions, no silly cap-and-trade shenanigans which, e.g., gives money to Monsanto for their most expensive weed killer), and look at manufacturing and other processes with more efficient means also.








Hillwilliam -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 6:33:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Title to real estate is immediately transferred at the agreed upon price, whether that is to an individual, corporation, REIT. A RE SPECULATOR takes possession of the RE, and may make improvements, hoping to RESELL at a higher price.

Commodities contracts are rarely settled by physical delivery. There is no ownership of the actual commodity when a futures contract is bought and sold. It is physcial delivery that establishes market price NOT what someone bet it would be delivered at.

REIT's dont take physical posession. They never even see what they bought. they just buy it, take the income and/or trade.

Sorry, Wilbur, Im a real estate broker.




Real0ne -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 6:40:58 PM)

fr

$4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days!


So how do you all like obama now?

LOL






Edwynn -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 6:54:39 PM)


More playground economic commentary.

How helpful.






CruelNUnsual -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 7:34:34 PM)

xxx




CruelNUnsual -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 7:44:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


Title to real estate is immediately transferred at the agreed upon price, whether that is to an individual, corporation, REIT. A RE SPECULATOR takes possession of the RE, and may make improvements, hoping to RESELL at a higher price.

Commodities contracts are rarely settled by physical delivery. There is no ownership of the actual commodity when a futures contract is bought and sold. It is physcial delivery that establishes market price NOT what someone bet it would be delivered at.

REIT's dont take physical posession. They never even see what they bought. they just buy it, take the income and/or trade.

Sorry, Wilbur, Im a real estate broker.


Sorry Hilly, but REITs absolutely do hold title on the properties they buy. Do they physically occupy it themselves? No, they may never see it after due diligence until its sold. But that is irrelevant to the claim that Real Estate speculation is in any way similar to commodities speculation.

The shareholders don't hold title but, depending on the State, title is held in the name of the REIT itself, the Trustees of the REIT or a nominee. Real estate speculation is NOT based on paper futures that are settled for paper. It is actual exchanges of real property. The CBOE established a "futures" market in real estate based on NAOR indices in 2006. It has negligible trading and does nothing to affect real estate prices. I believe they even changed the trading basis because they couldnt generate enough volume to make listing it worthwhile.

In commodities speculation actual title in the commodity is almost never taken. When it is, it is bought at market prices, prices that have nothing to do with speculation and everything to do with supply and demand at the time.

I advise the boards of 4 Pension Trusts that hold REITs. I interview their Trustees and managers quarterly.




Marini -> RE: $4-$5 gallon gas on the way/Gas prices up 28 cents in 10 days! (3/8/2011 8:29:27 PM)

You can check this thread, the last $5 gas thread and the next gas thread I start.
:) gas prices are still high as heck, and still expected to increase.
When the prices shoot down, you can than check that thread.
Peace




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