Anaxagoras
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Joined: 5/9/2009
From: Eire
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ORIGINAL: eihwaz
quote:
ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
... My concern is that a general approach of finding fault with the local culture minimises the damaging role of the West, and is used politically to get the West off the hook as it were. Truckinslave’s simplistic contribution above is a perfect example of what I mean.
Do you believe, then, that because a particular inquiry could be so misused it is therefore illegitimate or should be suppressed or ignored? Professor Timur's work studies institutions dating to the 12th Century. The ME has been under the reign of one empire or another for millenia. Much of the area was controlled by the Ottoman Empire from the 16th until the early 20th Centuries. European dominance of the ME is recent.
I think it is unjustifiable to principally blame Western Colonialism for the problems in the Middle-East. The majority of the region was ruled over by the Ottoman Turks, which were largely in harmony with the cultural practices of the Arab Islamic populace. Most Western rule over the Middle-East amounts to a few decades of transition after World War One.
All things considered the Middle-East should be one of the most advanced areas of the world today because historically it was a leader in this regard. Agriculture emerged in the Near and Middle East. The Near and Middle East was also largely responsible for developing bronze and iron technologies. The first civilisation was the Sumerians found in Mesopotamia from about 3,500 BC, modern day Iraq. Most of the rest of the world was living in basic hunter gatherer societies or transitioning to early argicultural development. They probably developed the first script, developed cities, advanced methods of farming and in turn led to other early civilisations such as the Egyptian. The Old Testament written during this era is perhaps the one defining text of human civilisation since then. Arguably the ancient Romans and Greeks overtook them but relatively late in the day after 500 BC.
Society in the Middle-East remained quite advanced by European standards until the extremely rapid spread of Islam. Some of the most important religious (Christian) and philosophical works date to this time when Europe was in the grip of the Dark Age. Many commentators see something of a resurgence of learning in the region under Islam called the "Islamic Golden Age". It was a synthesis of Islamic learning derived from the philosophy of Greek/Roman antiquity which was largely lost in Europe, and mixed with Christian and Jewish learning. Some of this knowledge spread to the West via Moorish Spain. Moorish Spain is seen by many as a paragon of religious tolerance under Islam although it does appear to be exaggerated for ideological reasons http://bigjournalism.com/abostom/2010/08/23/cnn-deliberates-falsifies-history-of-muslim-domination-of-spain-shills-for-islam/ - the Golden Age lasted 3+ hundred years. It came to an end in the mid 1200's. With its end came a distinctive turn back toward Islamic traditional teaching. Thus it is reasonable to see a causal connection between Islamic doctrine and the failure of the Middle-East to develop significantly since then. Winston Churchill said something similar about 100 years ago
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ORIGINAL: Politesub53
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ORIGINAL: truckinslave
I read the pablum. The author said the "unstated feeling" in the West was that "Islam is the problem". The emphasis of the piece was economic, but let me state plainly that it is my thought, belief, and feeling, that, whether the overarch is economic, or political, or an issue of religious tolerance, womens rights, gay rights, or violence:
Yes, the problem is Islam
As definitions of Islamophobe go, you have done a good job.
That's unfair Politesub. You object to others using the anti-Semitism tag unfairly - this is an equivalent term which is used much more commonly. The points raised are well known to be issues in most regions where Islam is the predominant faith so it is reasonable for Truckinslave to conclude the problems are associated with Islam is it not? It seems to me that Islamo-phobia is an irrational fear/hatred of Islam or all Muslims. If his dislike of Islam is based on a stance that is in part verifiable evidentially then it is reasonable to argue that it is not islamophobia. By contrast those that hate Jews typically rely on nutty conspiracy theories such as the Protocols, and blame them for the woes of the world.
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RE: Is Islam the Problem? - 
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