RE: "Selling" your fetish

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PeonForHer -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/8/2011 4:01:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Set up a blog or something for this stuff, and then leave a link to it at the end of your profile. That way the information about what gets you off is there for the woman to view at her leisure if she wants it, and you're not shoving it in her face during conversation. Mention the blog once in an email if you like, and then don't bring it up again. As a technique, it's pretty successful - you're appealing to their curiosity rather than demanding their attention, and most people are pretty curious. Now, that's a new one. Very intriguing idea. Doh. You know, all the time I've been advertising a femdom blog in my sig-line, it's never occurred to me to do the same thing myself. Funny. And also, I think it could be good practice. For me, the single most glaring problem with sub males and their search for partners is that their image of femdoms is unrealistic. Underneath, the desires and fantasies involve women who just aren't real. It'd be good to focus on that, in such a blog. Interesting! VC, you may be only a woman, but that was a damned good suggestion!

VaguelyCurious -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/8/2011 4:05:01 PM)
Your false misogyny fools nobody, Peon. [8D][8D] waits for the Peon-porn link to appear

PeonForHer -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/8/2011 4:21:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Your false misogyny fools nobody, Peon. [8D][8D] waits for the Peon-porn link to appear It's going to be called "Peon's Filth". I'm already thinking of a small anthology, actually.

LillyBoPeep -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/8/2011 4:56:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer QFT a second time. If there's the connection, I'll do what I can to go with whatever is her conception of domination. Gawd. We've got to a) loosen up our minds and b) get our priorities straight, here. As far as I can see we don't have a bloody chance at forming and maintaining relationships otherwise. i have to say i agree with you here. seriously. the connection is the most important thing, the details are just that -- details. quote: ORIGINAL: Killerangel I think it comes down somewhat to a gender based issue. Men are mainly the ones with specific fetishes or kink activities. Women fall more often into the category of finding certain things appealing in a general way. When men approach women like they are other men by saying I like x,y,z, do you like that as well (meaning lets do x,y,z!) - women find that dehumanizing and rather silly. When x,y,z, is connected to a man a woman cares about then it interests her. ... A man will not be successful if he goes about things as though he were doing things that would attract himself....because he's a freaking man not a woman. A hunter sets his bait according to what he is hunting. ... A woman isn't generally attracted by talk of certain fetishes or sexual activities, as incomprehensible as that is to men, it is the way it is. If you want a woman you'll have to figure out what they want and what attracts them - lots of women tell people in these forums every day what attracts them just as they have in this very thread. I have no idea why men don't seem to pay attention to what's being said - they keep trying to do things from their own point of view and failing and then becoming upset and bitter. i don't know how much more i can agree with you. this is so spot on, at least for me. and it really is the same on the other side of the slash, too. when i get contacted by Dominants whose major fetishes make up their name like "LactationMaster" or "WhipUHard2010" or something like that, it almost instantly turns me off. as i've experienced different focuses with different people who were interesting to me in one way or another, i have found that the connection with that person is what has mattered to me the most. my late M and my current Toppy friend are similar in a lot of ways but VERY different in other ways, but i like to be involved in what they enjoy(ed) because i like them. the kink stuff works because the connection works; the connection is strong. without that, who cares about the rest of it? i think it's just a major difference between how men and women relate to the world around them.

SthrnCom4t -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/8/2011 5:46:21 PM)
I married my girlie-boy submissive. I wasn't looking for a girlie-boy........but the beautiful, kind, witty, talented and loving Otter was quite a catch. The fact that he likes to shop for clothes and makeup more than I do was just part of the package. I can appreciate the OP's desire not to invest 'a lot of time' just to realize it's going nowhere. However, as several previously have suggested, there are plenty of ways to let your desires be known, without it being 'in your face.' Meet a lot of people, kiss a lot of toads, and be a loving, kind, interesting person while you're doing it.

Lockit -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/8/2011 6:20:31 PM)
As I have gotten older, I've found finding a good fit is more difficult. It isn't because of age... isn't about being pickier... it is a lower level of tolerance for certain things and a lack of willingness to 'deal' with some things I have dealt with and know what they entail. It's not laziness in not wanting to put forth an effort; it is more of an expectation that as a man ages, he has grown and matured as I have. My lack of tolerance stems from seeing that one hasn't grown and matured and an impatience can build quickly if they haven't. As I walked this path of adult womanhood, I noticed that relationships were often the woman's domain. She was the one that kept it together, sacrificed to cater to how a man was and if something needed changing, many books and such would recommend that she changed herself to make it all work out. Men were just the way men were and that was the way it was and there was little expectation that they try to figure out what made a woman happy unless it was a personal thing. Throughout the years, things did start changing and there was a lot of confusion. Men didn't know whether to open a door or let her. They got scared and they got pissed! lol A lot has changed and yet sometimes, in some cases with some people, very little has changed. All along there were men that didn't fit the average catagory of where men were in life, socially and how things typically went. Those were always the men I was drawn to. They were artist in a sense. They made understanding a woman an art and boy where they ever creative in pursuit of what made a woman the way she was and how to work with her and the differences between them. At times it seemed that men were admitting defeat, women were neurotic or that women were so much brighter in every way because they just couldn't get them. Give up dude... you will never figure out a woman. One of the things most women want is for someone to figure them out.. to know them... to get them. They don't always have to understand, but half the time would be an improvement in a lot of cases. So if a woman wishes to be known and seen, wouldn't it make it easier if she allowed someone to see her and know her? Most will, if you listen, watch and pay attention. If you spent as much time in learning a woman as one might learning the rules of some sport.. guess what? lol Where ever a man finds himself in all of this maze.. it is a maze only if you make it so. We compromise... we change.. we feel something and are willing to do more for someone we feel something for. It isn't rocket science. For example... men used to say... I don't help with housework, I never get it right and she is never happy with what I do, so I don't do it. I found that my ex was using this to get out of doing anything rather than apply himself to actually figuring out how the rocket science washing machine worked. Bad move on his part and he admits this 26 years later while missing me and knowing he fucked up bad. lol If you know that a woman most likely won't wish to talk about your kink and you continue to do it... shortening time so that you don't waste it... you are still wasting it, because you aren't looking at the woman, learning her and seeing what women are typically like and being open to how she is personally. Why keep using a method that doesn't work? Either way, I see it isn't getting you any where. You might as well learn the woman and proceed from there. You might actually get somewhere. I will learn a man, spend time doing so and with a lot of effort. I know he is visual and this or that way... it's about time a man took the time to know me. Anything less... is a repeat of history and I only like that in movies, not real life.

LPslittleclip -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/8/2011 7:15:46 PM)
i think marketing would be a better term but yes it is a good ide to present yourself in a way to apeal to those you would mesh best with. for my Mistress i please Her in many ways connecting but with play She wants to use Her sadistic ways to fulfill her kink in that aspect it is the kink first not the connection

LadyNTrainer -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/8/2011 9:29:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious Bullshit. The kink equivalent of saying that you're into jazz and canoeing is exactly that - saying that you're into jazz and canoeing. The vanilla equivalent of a guy 'announcing that he's into being feminized, or cuckolded, or imprisoned, or penetrated, or whatever' would be him announcing that he's looking for someone for blowjobs, or anal sex, or fucking in the shower, or whatever. How many women do you suppose would appreciate that approach? (Hint: they are the minority.) What makes you think kinky women would be different? Quoted for absolute truth. Seriously, if you would not walk up to a woman in a bar and tell her you love anal sex before you even introduced yourself by name, let alone got into a deeper conversation with her after you were already in the dating stage, don't do the kink equivalent. Trust me on this. This is really what it ends up looking like. "Hi, I love anal sex and getting blowjobs. So what's your name?" If you do this, expect women to stare at you like your fly is open and your dick is hanging out - because it pretty much is - and walk away. Telling her in detail about the kind of kinky sex you like is NOT going to make most women think well of you, not if you do it as your first introduction. It comes off as classless and crude and shallow if you can not wait until you know a woman better to broach the subject of the kind of sex you like. If you do that too early, she's going to think that all you are looking for is a kinky sex provider, not a human relationship with her as a person. I get that you're kinky and I'm kinky and we're on a kinky site together. That means you can slow down with the kink talk, not speed it up, because you already know that we're both into similar stuff. Or heck, it could be right there in both our profiles, making it even less crucial that you start talking about it immediately to weed out people that really wouldn't be compatible with you. We already know this, now how about focusing on the really important stuff - do we actually like each other enough to want to spend time together, let alone intimate time? That means taking the time to get to know each other as people before getting into the kinky sex stuff. If you jump right in with the kinky sex stuff and ignore the relationship stuff to start with, women are mostly going to think you are a shallow tool who is chasing his dick around. Even if this isn't true of you, this is what you will look like. So really, don't. Just don't. Be aware of this perspective and be excruciatingly careful to lead with your personality and with getting to know people as people before telling them the kind of kinky sex you like. You can make the information available in a corner of your profile (preferably discreetly, at least one click away from the main body of it). You can establish general compatibility (eg, dom or sub, top or bottom), and talk about kink in the abstract as an interesting topic. But stay very far away from the equivalent of "Hi, I love anal sex and getting blowjobs, so what's your name?" or you are doomed when it comes to meeting women. "Selling your fetish" is pretty damn close to this kind of approach, unfortunately, and that's why it is very likely to fail.

strangedesire -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/9/2011 7:06:59 AM)
OP, How many situations have you been in where you're getting all your core fantasies fulfilled, but you don't really have a connection with the person you're playing with? Does this happen to you often? I used to be really into casual/NSA play. It made sense to me - my fantasies weren't relationship-related fantasies, they involved specific fetishy acts. There are plenty of men out there looking for that kind of thing, so I went out and found some. For a little while, it was good. Sexy things happened. I got to hurt people. I learned about myself and what I like. It got old. I started realizing that no matter how pretty they were, people who I didn't connect with as people left me feeling kind of flat. Not bad (with a few exceptions) but I wasn't getting anything out of it that I couldn't get from a trip to the movies and some time in bed with porntube. Going to the movies is a lot less risk and effort. At the same time, I started to notice that with people I liked, even things that I wasn't really into became hot. If you told me five years ago that I'd enjoy contemplating setting up a hetero gangbang for my girlfriend, I would have thought you were crazy. Straight sex squicks me - but she likes it, and it's sexy for me to hold the reins of her fantasies. Here's where the numbers game comes in: as a dominant woman coming into the casual-play scene, it was very easy for me to find partners. I could churn through a dozen exploratory encounters and figure this stuff out in six months. Very personable men will sometimes manage this at a similar pace - or go straight into friendships/relationships and evade this stage entirely - but most don't. I think that a lot of men don't have the opportunity to realize that the spark between people is more fulfilling than the activities that let it out. The other side to this is that in BDSM, an enjoyable topping experience often requires more emotional connection than an enjoyable bottoming experience. When I'm bottoming, I care a lot less who you are. I want technical competence, and I want you to be able to do things my way (dominant masochism!) but as long as you can feed me my good pain it doesn't matter as much who you are. As a top, however, I don't get the same degree of physical immersion in the scene. Generally, my only physical point of contact is going to be my hands. The physical sensations of hitting things isn't all that stimulating to me. (If it was, I'd have to replace my pillows more frequently.) The activity itself isn't actually what's sexy to me. I'm feeding off reactions: pain, fear, need, lust.... This means that a) most things that inspire those emotions will be somewhat satisfying to me, and b) I need empathy and an emotional connection to get my "fix" from playing. This is why we say that compatibility is bigger than matching fetish lists.

SthrnCom4t -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/9/2011 10:33:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: strangedesire The other side to this is that in BDSM, an enjoyable topping experience often requires more emotional connection than an enjoyable bottoming experience. When I'm bottoming, I care a lot less who you are. I want technical competence, and I want you to be able to do things my way (dominant masochism!) but as long as you can feed me my good pain it doesn't matter as much who you are. As a top, however, I don't get the same degree of physical immersion in the scene. Generally, my only physical point of contact is going to be my hands. The physical sensations of hitting things isn't all that stimulating to me. (If it was, I'd have to replace my pillows more frequently.) The activity itself isn't actually what's sexy to me. I'm feeding off reactions: pain, fear, need, lust.... This means that a) most things that inspire those emotions will be somewhat satisfying to me, and b) I need empathy and an emotional connection to get my "fix" from playing. This is why we say that compatibility is bigger than matching fetish lists. Very well said! Upon reading, this immediately resonated with my experience/feeling as well. (Though I admit, I didn't have the awareness until reading this post.) For me, once I had grown to a certain level of self-confidence, I was able to have submissive/bottoming encounters on a much more narrow area of connection. (I can spend a few hours/a weekend with you, while you're in Top space and I'm in bottom space. Hug, Thanks, see ya next time...bye.) Indeed, this became old, and felt shallow. When single, and playing as a Top, there were many activities that I wasn't necessarily into (for me), that I enjoyed immensely because that is what my bottom enjoyed. One partner was very much into CBT and queening. He didn't enjoy impact play, nor were marks an option. He wore collar and cuffs and addressed me respectfully, because he knew I liked it, not because he felt it. We had some hot encounters. Was it long-term relationship material....no way, but I discovered I could have a rockin' great time because of the level of enthusiasm he expressed and that I was eliciting. If I don't like you, I don't have any interest in playing or being intimate. YAWN~~~~~NEXT! If I like you and I inspire the submissive vibe in you....then yes, I'll want to hurt you, I'll want to 'experience' you deeply and intimately, and I'll be invested in your happiness. As part of that investment, I'll do things to you that I know you like, because I will enjoy providing you a delicious and fulfilling experience, which ideally, in return, will inspire your submission. There is a reason it's called Power EXCHANGE. :)

PeonForHer -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/9/2011 1:09:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SthrnCom4t If I like you and I inspire the submissive vibe in you....then yes, I'll want to hurt you . . . . You see? Women at CM aren't any different to those elsewhere. Warm, caring, nurturing . . . . This site does crack me up sometimes. [;)]

SthrnCom4t -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/9/2011 5:34:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: SthrnCom4t If I like you and I inspire the submissive vibe in you....then yes, I'll want to hurt you . . . . You see? Women at CM aren't any different to those elsewhere. Warm, caring, nurturing . . . . This site does crack me up sometimes. [;)] A former play partner and I had teasing moments when I was being especially 'loving' and I would ask him to classify the act I was performing as, "Nice" or "Nurturing" :) Good Times!

VaguelyCurious -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/10/2011 2:44:40 AM)
Haha! Excerpt from recent play scene: I did something nasty and painful My co-top: (to his girl) She's a bitch, isn't she? Girl: (No hesitation whatsoever) No! She's lovely! [:D][:D][:D]

MistressRage -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/10/2011 9:26:08 AM)
Excellent post! I always thought we hooked up with subs who had the same interests as us because doing those things is fun for us both. However, I think some of the people you speak of are in it to benefit monetarily and just can't come out and say it on this site.

LaTigresse -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/10/2011 9:46:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressRage Excellent post! I always thought we hooked up with subs who had the same interests as us because doing those things is fun for us both. However, I think some of the people you speak of are in it to benefit monetarily and just can't come out and say it on this site. I think you misread the intent of the thread.

DesFIP -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/10/2011 11:04:39 AM)
I do think it's important that your interests match up well enough so that you both know you can have a good time. However there is no reason to drag your kinks out in conversation. That's what your profile is for, the last paragraph should be no more than a sentence or two. Loves bondage, hates sting. That kind of thing. Just a starting point but will prevent someone who lives for singletailing that you aren't a match and allows others to decide if there's sufficient compatibility.

lizi -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/10/2011 1:55:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SthrnCom4t I married my girlie-boy submissive. I wasn't looking for a girlie-boy........but the beautiful, kind, witty, talented and loving Otter was quite a catch. The fact that he likes to shop for clothes and makeup more than I do was just part of the package. I can appreciate the OP's desire not to invest 'a lot of time' just to realize it's going nowhere. However, as several previously have suggested, there are plenty of ways to let your desires be known, without it being 'in your face.' Meet a lot of people, kiss a lot of toads, and be a loving, kind, interesting person while you're doing it. I have to interject something here. I agree with the general premise on this thread that women want a connection with someone first, they don't tend to shop for a man by kink or any other outside characteristic. There are exceptions of course. A man who shops for a woman by using kink and/or any other thing of a deeply personal nature first is going about it ass-backwards because there aren't a lot of women out there wanting to do personal things with a man without knowing the man. I hope this doesn't embarrass Ottersswim or his lovely Domme SthrnCom4t, but he is a perfect example of this concept. After seeing the two of them post here for some time they both seem to me to be lovely, gracious people. Otters is an example of someone I have gotten to know in a very superficial way but he is truly a gem. I am utterly not interested in his kink per se but I got to know the man first and believe me when I say that I view the whole gender bending idea in a more thoughtful way now because my view of it has become more humanized if you will. I'm not saying I'm ready to run out and find me a man who is into that type of thing, but neither would I reject it. Because I have gotten to know Otters and his owner somewhat, I can see the appeal in their kink. Once again, it's a case of people first, kink second. I just thought I'd throw a real life example out there - hope it didn't offend in any way. Men try to do the kink first, person second thing a lot. They do that with sex in general, it's a more straightforward and anonymous thing to them. A woman doesn't generally do it that way. I can't see the use of persisting in an approach that doesn't work, either learn what a woman wants and to approach more successfully or be destined to be left behind. If you approach a woman by using techniques that would appeal to a man, you're going to fail more often then not.

LadyNTrainer -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/10/2011 5:03:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MistressRage Excellent post! I always thought we hooked up with subs who had the same interests as us because doing those things is fun for us both. However, I think some of the people you speak of are in it to benefit monetarily and just can't come out and say it on this site. Eh? I have no problem saying that I am a professional on this site. I'm not always posting from a professional perspective however. Definitely not in this thread. In my personal life, I hook up with subs whom I connect with well as human beings and as friends first. The specific kinks really are secondary. If we click on a personal level, it almost doesn't matter what your kinks are as long as we can even remotely find common ground with them. If we don't click on a personal level, it definitely doesn't matter what your kinks are, we're not playing. We could have identical kink lists and I still wouldn't want to play if that human connection was missing. Professionally none of this is relevant at all. If your kinks are within the realm of safe and legal, I can work with them. End of story. So I haven't bothered commenting from a professional point of view in this thread, and I don't quite see why anyone else would either.

subandyphil -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/10/2011 6:11:16 PM)
i think you are right mistress

pinniped -> RE: "Selling" your fetish (3/10/2011 11:18:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Women are going to continue to shut you down when you have the position that you don't want to invest the time unless you know your kinks (specifically) are going to be ok with her. I don't insist that she has to be into exactly, and only, the kinks that I'm into...but I do think it's vital that she not reject kink out-of-hand. I have dated women who didn't mind that I was kinky particularly, but they themselves just weren't, and that was that. A long-term relationship wasn't going to work, because sooner or later I'd either start pressuring her to do kinky things, and/or be tempted to stray and pursue them elsewhere, and both of those alternatives are not acceptable. I've met plenty of other women whose position seems to be that they find kink (or most kink) either disgusting or funny. (I find very little more hurtful than to find someone who finds the whole thing laughable -- which is not the same as saying there can't be humorous aspects to it.) And, of course, I've known lots of women whose reaction to my crossdressing varied from warmly accepting to quietly tolerant -- but were quite certain it wasn't something they wanted in a mate. So, she doesn't have to like exactly the kind of play I like, and she might like things I'm either not turned on by or extremely wary of -- but I would like to have an idea we're at least in the same league, if not the same ballpark. (Again, I separate the crossdressing from my kink, not because they don't overlap somewhat, but because it isn't just a kink with me -- it's a whole side of my personality that has to be accepted before I think I can even consider loving someone.) Regardless, I do see your point, and thank you (and everyone else) for your advice. How precisely to apply it, I'll have to give some consideration -- my ability to "sell myself" in a more general way is not exactly one of my stronger points, either. (I've never been sure what the ideal career path for me would be, but I've always known it is NOT sales....) Also, I should note that I didn't intend to put this out quite so much as an advocacy for my methods or a criticism of dominants and what they want. It was more intended as a general response to a question I have seen posed many times, when a sub (usually male) brings up a particular fetish, kink, or fantasy: "Tell me why I should want to invest a lot of time in doing that to/with you." It's not that it's not a fair question, but I'm not sure it's much different from someone who asks, "Why would I want to spend a lot of time building model airplanes?" or "making patchwork quilts"? That I can't explain why doesn't mean there aren't people out there who enjoy doing those things. (Perhaps a shift in emphasis might be helpful -- "Why would I want to spend a lot of time doing that with you?" Though that might come off as arrogant or mercenary to some, I suppose.)

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