RE: No College Degree Necessary?

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DomYngBlk -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/10/2011 1:13:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "Comes from a rich family. " Gates only did two things, stole programs and repackaged them, and figured out how to get paid for it. T^T And from his family had the connections to put together the financing for it....which is more to the point.

popeye1250 -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/10/2011 1:28:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "Comes from a rich family. " Gates only did two things, stole programs and repackaged them, and figured out how to get paid for it. T^T And from his family had the connections to put together the financing for it....which is more to the point. DYB, you're making my point for me! Bill Gates certainly didn't need a "degree" did he? Now I know a lot of guys in the Boston, Mass area where I grew up who came from working-class/ poor families who did a lot of illegal stuff, MUCH more than Bill Gates would ever think of and got no help from their "families" and did very nicely for themselves with no degrees.

truckinslave -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/10/2011 2:35:50 PM)
quote: You don't need a degree to be President of the United States. Or Governor of Wisconsin.

Termyn8or -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/10/2011 3:27:31 PM)
"And from his family had the connections to put together the financing for it....which is more to the point. " I'd have to agree. He got DOS for a song and a dance. Remember when Win95 came out ? Almost everyhing it did was already done years before by a company called Quarterdeck, their DOS shell was called Desqview. All Windows is, is a DOS shell, don't let anyone tell you different. With DOS the world came out of the program in the chip age. It could be changed as easily as the floppy disk. And all Windows really did was pass the commands from the GUI to the command line. It is alot more complex now, but what did anyone expect ? Think over the years of the games that ran better when you exited Windows. They needed their own mouse interface and all that, sound drivers and so forth. Windows just got in the way and slowed things down, for the programs that would even run in Windows. There were other contenders, Beos, Linux, and the Mac of course but that required a different architecture of the processor etc. Gates took what he thought would be the most popular, and took it to the mass market. That is hard as hell to do without connections. Now I've already repeated something I heard a long time ago : If you take a millionaire's money away, in time he will gain it back, if you give that million to a pauper, in a few years he will again be broke. I believe it is mostly true, but for what reason ? Is it the mindset of the rich, that makes them wealthy or is is just part of being "connected" ? Maybe it's both, or a mixture of both. There is a bilboard on I-90 eastbound here with a picture of Einstein and a caption that reads "In school he was no Einstein". Seems a bit ironic because it is an advertisement for a college. But then those with creativity need the tools. Like an artist needs an easel and brushes, or a budding engineer need to know how to express his ideas on paper, by way of a blueprint. In short my contention is that a degree only means so much. Not only can't they teach actual creativity, they can't go much farther than "the book". The innovators do it after school, in a manner of speaking. Not to blow my own horn here. Many know I am self educated, and that includes electronics. Back in the early 1980s I got a job. There were 155 applicants. Many of them had formal training but I went anyway. They didn't require formal training but they had a fairly well written aptitude test. I say fairly well written because in a way I rewrote it. I found an error, and told them about it. Literally "By the way, answer C is right". This was on a question of "Most likely cause", something like that. I explained, I got the job and they changed it. Not actually the test itself, but what was considered a correct answer. But the fact is I was told that my test score was the best they had ever seen. Of the other 154 applicants, many of them most likely had formal training. It didn't mean shit that day. There is nothing wrong with an education, but it should not be considered the end all do all of life. It's what you do with it that matters. T^T

DomYngBlk -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/11/2011 5:58:12 AM)
Still missing the point. I don't care what he paid for what. His family was connected and rich enough to get it done. The point is is that those thats got get and those that ain't gots don't.

Termyn8or -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/12/2011 12:25:25 AM)
I don't mean to hijack, but I must ask - do you resent that ? There is a difference between resenting and being pissed off. If you resent these people you are wasting energy, energy that could be used for your own benefit. And face it, that's better than using it to wish or cause the diminishing of another. I mean, I don't like it either, but when presentyed with these opportunities that are closely held, privvy to connections and wherewithall that is not bestowed on the commoner, what would you do ? Would you turn it down ? It is easy for us to say that. But in practice it requires a gargantuan effort to resist. If your Parents offered you free education until you got tired of it, would you work your own way through college anyway ? I wouldn't. I admit it. I live in a world of family, chosen family and connections. I am not rich, but it wouldn't be hard to get rich. Honestly is a different story. But I could do it and despite the risk, I would probably be fine. But anything honest, and in my vocabulary that includes drug dealing, and a few other things, anything that makes money takes some effort, and to start to owe favors. I have a BIG problem accepting favors, because in my world, you reciprocate. On a dark night about four years ago I had to take significant risk to fulfill what I considered an obligation. That is the way my world works. And I have used my family and friends, in my case I allow them to use me as well. My "skills" are their's and their's are mine. Now this differs from the rich of course, but I wouldn't teach my kids the way they do. They are spoiled and arrogant, they have faults. I won't condemn them for that, but I would be happy to put them in their place, which might mean senators cleaning toilets. The Communists have a ssaying - "Each according to his abilities and each according to his needs". I disagree. It should read - "Each according to his abilities and each according to his worth". The problem here is that the Parents of the rich usually have little worth, and false worth is bestowed on their kin. Do we blame the kin ? When you learn not to hate, you learn not to hate PERIOD. The only exceptions are among politicians, because they KNOW. Nobody could be that stupid. When you accept responsibility, you discharge it, that is all. They are traitors and should be shot, no matter who put a bug in their ear. This is a matter of trust, and death would be the perfect deterrent. When the government did not overpower the People by orders of magnitude, the system worked alot better. You don't run for sherriff unless you're ready to do the job right. And if you don't do the job right it will bite you in the ass. Now they cover their ass. How it got this way is an important area of study, because to change it, we can't do it on a piece by piece basis. And people in general are frequently just as bad. So maybe they get the representation they deserve. And what caused that ? So where do we draw the line ? Well I say eventually we become ruthless and bad to the bone, and when we line the up politicians and CERTAIN other people up and shoot them, there should be no malice on our hearts. It detracts from the experience. T^T

JstAnotherSub -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/12/2011 5:07:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I'd love to get a job that pays a decent wage without a degree. Everything I've heard about student loans scares the crap out of me, yet I will be signing up for them next month. I have a curved spine. I've been unable to find any careers that don't require being on my feet all day that pay decent wages. There are jobs available for people who don't have degrees as long as they have no physical disabilities. But college seems to be necessary for someone with a bad back. a lot depends on what you consider to be decent wages.

rulemylife -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/12/2011 7:10:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Now I know a lot of guys in the Boston, Mass area where I grew up who came from working-class/ poor families who did a lot of illegal stuff, MUCH more than Bill Gates would ever think of and got no help from their "families" and did very nicely for themselves with no degrees. And I'm sure their mothers are very proud.

Edwynn -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/12/2011 5:08:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Used to be a difference way back when .................... The only difference way back when was NOT that workers were overpaid. I don't think he was implying that workers were overpaid way back when, though he is rhetorically proposing that if someone will do it for less, then the current worker is "overpaid." In any event, just to clarify things all around, real (inflation adjusted) wages dropped over 8 % from 1964 t0 2004, ($302.52 down to $257.77 weekly, in 1982 constant dollars): http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits%3A+Real+Wages+%281964-2004%29 while percentage of national income has improved noticeably for the top percentiles ... http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/03/29/business/0329-biz-subTAXweb.gif In any event, I have NO idea what Krugman is on about (as if I ever did, the few times I've read his column). All I hear in macroeconomics world is that The US has a noticeable shortage of engineers of all sorts, of which management would gladly have such shortfall eased by computer replacement if that were possible. As to the OP and subsequent considerations of Krugman's capacity ... He's still human, and being adept at quantization does not instantly qualify one as making sense whatever he/she might speak about. Whatever his agenda, he has the smarts to create a scenario a bit less silly than the one he puts forth here, and he would further whatever cause he has if he were to do so.

Musicmystery -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/12/2011 9:29:41 PM)
quote: There's nothing "wrong" with having a degree. There's a lot wrong when so many people have degrees. It's called "the law of supply and demand" which so many people think they can simply ignore. Also, the U.S. is headed in the wrong direction with this "global economy" crap! No, the problem is that so many people with degrees expect to be handed a job instead of using their intelligence and skills to create opportunities. As for the "global economy" crap--this just isn't the 19th century anymore. Have some coffee.

Termyn8or -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/13/2011 3:04:21 AM)
Then let's go back to the nineteenth century. Your statement contradicts itself, you either know it or you don't. I don't expect to be asked for an explaination of that, but if you need ......... T^T

thishereboi -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/13/2011 6:10:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk Still missing the point. I don't care what he paid for what. His family was connected and rich enough to get it done. The point is is that those thats got get and those that ain't gots don't. Maybe you could get together with brain up in Canada The two of you could sit around and curse all those awful rich republicans who do nothing but take from you poor liberals. I bet you have loads in common to talk about.

Edwynn -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/13/2011 8:57:16 AM)
While we're at it, let's throw the Soros haters in the same cage, being that he exemplifies for self deluded neocons the awful rich liberals who do nothing but take from all those poor republicans. They would all indeed have lots to talk about, but the benefit to society is that the rest of us wouldn't have to hear it anymore. Deal.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/13/2011 11:10:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Edwynn While we're at it, let's throw the Soros haters in the same cage, being that he exemplifies for self deluded neocons the awful rich liberals who do nothing but take from all those poor republicans. They would all indeed have lots to talk about, but the benefit to society is that the rest of us wouldn't have to hear it anymore. Deal. Deal. It was Blowbama who reneged on his promise to use public funding, limiting private funding. Gee, I wonder why he would do that.

Edwynn -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/14/2011 12:13:30 AM)
You actually believe all this crap, is that what you are trying to tell us here? Please. Just a rhetorical comment. Do the world a favor and don't respond.

Termyn8or -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/14/2011 2:44:43 AM)
FR Any of you ever worked in smaller enterprizes ? Bigger fish in a smaller pond ? If so, do a background check on your boss. People fall out of prison with no future, which is also botched by a record. What so they do ? Well alot of them turn to more crime to get by, at least they have experience. The rest go legit. Open regular businesses and live quite well. And you don't check thier refernces, they check yours. T^T

MrRodgers -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/14/2011 8:57:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or "Comes from a rich family. " Gates only did two things, stole programs and repackaged them, and figured out how to get paid for it. T^T Just a side bar on Gates Getting paid is the easy part. What Gates did was win the lottery of the PC sweepstakes...thanx to IBM's ignorance and sales power in addition to the concept the courts failed to recognize in the actual real proprietary protections needed for software. Gates never wrote a single program, finished it and sold it. Gates never went out to sell anything. IBM wanted to get a PC on the market immediately and for the first time went to an outside vendor to obtain it. Gates knew of their anxiety over Apples computer and found an operating system from Seattle software. In their ignorant haste, IBM bought that software from Seattle Software but from Gates who had just obtained it on paper. IBM polished it up and with 10,000 sales visits a week...presto MS/DOS is the operating system for almost 100% of PC's on the market. Gates didn't steal the mouse from Xerox labs but they let it go thinking it useless. Gated did steal the interactive desktop from Apple, it went to court and won, hence the ignorance of it when it rules the 'desktop' not proprietary software which is ridiculous on its face. Fast forward to windows and you have the makings of a monopoly. Then it was, you paid for Windows whether you wanted it or not. Then any software application for Windows that sold was immediately researched and...presto, on the windows desktop we saw a new application from MS. This knocked all other small software firms out of the market. The first big victim was NetScape instant mess. The courts (SCOTUS) not requiring MS to sell Windows as the DOJ did force upon IBM to drop their lawsuit of 10 years on their mainframes, a lawsuit they were going to lose anyway, and stupidly IBM agreed. At that time Windows became unbelievably...a 'natural' monopoly. Some economists have estimated that the Windows monopoly cost the economy $20-$50 Billion in software marketplace and some 2-4 million jobs. Investment capital dried up for new software start-ups.

DomYngBlk -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/14/2011 1:03:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk Still missing the point. I don't care what he paid for what. His family was connected and rich enough to get it done. The point is is that those thats got get and those that ain't gots don't. Maybe you could get together with brain up in Canada The two of you could sit around and curse all those awful rich republicans who do nothing but take from you poor liberals. I bet you have loads in common to talk about. No whining. Just don't try to pass off things like Gates as some kind of rags to riches story. Its bullshit. If you want to stick your head in the sand and say everyone has equal opportunity here then fine......but you don't get a pass if you want to pass it off to the rest of us.

DomYngBlk -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/14/2011 1:10:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or I don't mean to hijack, but I must ask - do you resent that ? There is a difference between resenting and being pissed off. If you resent these people you are wasting energy, energy that could be used for your own benefit. And face it, that's better than using it to wish or cause the diminishing of another. I mean, I don't like it either, but when presentyed with these opportunities that are closely held, privvy to connections and wherewithall that is not bestowed on the commoner, what would you do ? Would you turn it down ? It is easy for us to say that. But in practice it requires a gargantuan effort to resist. If your Parents offered you free education until you got tired of it, would you work your own way through college anyway ? I wouldn't. I admit it. I live in a world of family, chosen family and connections. I am not rich, but it wouldn't be hard to get rich. Honestly is a different story. But I could do it and despite the risk, I would probably be fine. But anything honest, and in my vocabulary that includes drug dealing, and a few other things, anything that makes money takes some effort, and to start to owe favors. I have a BIG problem accepting favors, because in my world, you reciprocate. On a dark night about four years ago I had to take significant risk to fulfill what I considered an obligation. That is the way my world works. And I have used my family and friends, in my case I allow them to use me as well. My "skills" are their's and their's are mine. Now this differs from the rich of course, but I wouldn't teach my kids the way they do. They are spoiled and arrogant, they have faults. I won't condemn them for that, but I would be happy to put them in their place, which might mean senators cleaning toilets. The Communists have a ssaying - "Each according to his abilities and each according to his needs". I disagree. It should read - "Each according to his abilities and each according to his worth". The problem here is that the Parents of the rich usually have little worth, and false worth is bestowed on their kin. Do we blame the kin ? When you learn not to hate, you learn not to hate PERIOD. The only exceptions are among politicians, because they KNOW. Nobody could be that stupid. When you accept responsibility, you discharge it, that is all. They are traitors and should be shot, no matter who put a bug in their ear. This is a matter of trust, and death would be the perfect deterrent. When the government did not overpower the People by orders of magnitude, the system worked alot better. You don't run for sherriff unless you're ready to do the job right. And if you don't do the job right it will bite you in the ass. Now they cover their ass. How it got this way is an important area of study, because to change it, we can't do it on a piece by piece basis. And people in general are frequently just as bad. So maybe they get the representation they deserve. And what caused that ? So where do we draw the line ? Well I say eventually we become ruthless and bad to the bone, and when we line the up politicians and CERTAIN other people up and shoot them, there should be no malice on our hearts. It detracts from the experience. T^T Sure I resent it. Don't you? I resent being told that the playing field is even when it isn't even close to being that way. I resent people buying the line hook line and sinker. I resent them thinking that the scraps from their tables is enough. I resent them thinking that we are cannon fodder for their wars and that it is ok to kill us for their enjoyment.

windchymes -> RE: No College Degree Necessary? (3/14/2011 2:01:27 PM)
I live and work near Washington DC in a very large science-related corporation. In this area, and I believe most of the east coast, it's all about the degree you have, work experience means nothing anymore. Promotions go to those with bachelor's degrees, as bare minumum, and if you walk in the door waving a Master's, but have no experience, they will hire you to manage and direct an entire department within that corporation. Again, with NO prior management experience. The attitude is, you have the degree, therefore, you must be competent. This really isn't meant to be a "poor me" whine, but I have almost 23 years of successful and diverse experience in my field, national certification, and what should be considered a fairly impressive resume. But when I say I have an Associate's, they say, "Oh." Not impressed with experience. Try finding jobs these days. More and more companies have an apply-online policy only. You can't just send a resume and cover letter through the mail these days and expect them to keep it in a file until they have an opening. You have to "click" on the openings posted, fill out an online application and fax/email the resume. They make the decision from that whether or not you're suitable for their position, you don't get a chance to sell yourself with a face-to-face interview unless they've already decided you're hireable. And they decide by the degree you have. *edited to add - My company, and probably many others, don't even call people in for interviews until after they've done the background check! My theory is that the competetion is going to get worse and worse because of the easy access to the online degrees and accelerated programs. Recent grads with their MBA's slide into these positions of management with no experience to back it up, so they in turn select job candidates with the qualifications they can relate to. Degrees. Experience is meaning less and less in today's world, it's getting to be all about the degree.

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