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Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 12:10:25 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		In reading another thread here, early this morning, I got to thinking about this topic on my drive in to work.

I can see several sides of the issue.

With kids, I really do believe that there are limits, even online. And I support adults enforcing those limits. I think we all realize that kids can be very cruel, vicious even, and allow that to spill over onto the internet and social networks in ways that are unacceptable and harmful. So, in the light of the fact that none of us are children and really should be able to police ourselves....

For me, if I was answering a thread about 'nasty old meanies' making, less than coddling remarks, on a thread..... I think most people that have read many of posts would have a general idea of how I would answer. I am not gentle. I don't coddle those I see as fools. I will even enjoy sadistically poking sticks at those I see as fools. Even more fun, pompous fools that seem to feel they are the 'all knowing' uber cool......whatever.

I have a strong belief in taking responsibility for myself and how I allow other people to affect me. Both here and in my daily life. Yet, I also accept that there is a certain responsibility I have, or WANT to have, in how I affect other people's lives.

Yes, I gleefully admit I am a sadistic bitch. But where my boundaries are, who I hurt, how, why, all of those things I know I need to be responsible. Always in the back of my mind there is a voice "Do no harm". For a sadist like me, there is quite often a huge gray area where a clear boundary exists for others.

For myself, I can honestly say that I've never had any regret over anything I've posted. Yes, I know I've been misunderstood.....if it's been brought to my attention I clarify. If I've been aware I've hurt feelings by accident, I apologize.

Yet, I know that the way in which I speak, and write, is blunt and to the point. I don't candy coat my truths. If that makes people uncomfortable or hurts someone's feelings, generally I am still not going to feel remorse.

I think that my line between speaking bluntly and bullying/sadistic snark........is simply my own intent. For me, it really is that simple.

What I see in others, often appears to be gang mentality and/or, wanting to fit in. There will be one poster, perhaps someone less fortunate, emotionally, mentally, educationally, financially, or physically. Someone that has certain qualities that are considered disgusting or pathetic. I occasionally see, an almost nasty teen girl type reaction. Oh, it gets quite expertly coated in 'helpfulness' but the nasty is there, glaring, obvious for all to see. With no exactly word or phrase as a sign, but still there none the less. To me, I can see how that could be bullying. That will often trigger in me, a desire to deflect, protect, and then attack the attacker. Not the most admirable of reactions but there it is.

So where are your lines? Where do you step in? Do you, do you feel any obligation to monitor your words? Do you feel more free to be nasty via the net? Do you ever consider that the person you are about to attack might not think, feel, have the same capacity to deflect, understand, cope........as you do? Do you even give a shit......ever?

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/10/2011 12:14:31 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!
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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 12:34:21 PM   
Jennislut


Posts: 234
Joined: 2/24/2011
Status: offline 		i try not to be cruel online and in real life. i am very honest, but often say nothing rather than something that will cause hurt

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i just popped in to say

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 12:43:56 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

So where are your lines? Where do you step in? Do you, do you feel any obligation to monitor your words? Do you feel more free to be nasty via the net? Do you ever consider that the person you are about to attack might not think, feel, have the same capacity to deflect, understand, cope........as you do? Do you even give a shit......ever?


The best answer that I can give is that I will do solutions but not sympathy.

I will make the attempt to help you solve your problem. If after my suggestions and others suggestions the only response I see is a listing of reasons why their problem cannot be fixed, well. . . I will try to explain nicely the first time that you need to step up to the plate regarding your own life. After that it will ony get more curt if I even try.

When there is an issue/problem in life, a real adult will do everything s/he can not to waste the lesson, because when the lesson is wasted, That Bitch Called Life will only use a bigger hammer next time around.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:01:42 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

So where are your lines? Where do you step in? Do you, do you feel any obligation to monitor your words? Do you feel more free to be nasty via the net? Do you ever consider that the person you are about to attack might not think, feel, have the same capacity to deflect, understand, cope........as you do? Do you even give a shit......ever


If you ask for an opinion, it will be given. Dont expect it to be warm and fuzzy, wrapped in silk and draped protectively around your body. Its one of the first, and hardest, lessons I had to learn in regards to life, not just on line web sites.

I have a protective nature... to a point. And I do try and skew my posts towards that end. But everyone has a breaking point.

As I taught my son, and as I teach my friends, and as my family knows.... personal accountability goes a long way with me. If you want warm and fuzzy, ask your best friend. But, also consider this... if your best friend wont tell you the truth, but, instead, worries more about your feelings, are they truly your "best friend"?

I may not like the way someone speaks to me, but I do try and listen. Criticism can be malicious... or it can be constructive. Sometimes its how it is presented. And sometimes its how its perceived. I cannot help the preception part. Nor will I attempt to.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:02:43 PM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		A most excellent topic, thank you for initiating it, LaTigresse.

I try to be aware that there are actual people behind the user names and at least attempt to censor my snarkiness. I don't always manage that, online or real life. (My excuse is, I am a Sag on the cusp of Scorpio, I tend to hit what I aim at with a certain degree of viciousness. And I do hold a grudge.).

When it comes to the boards, I see that as people coming on here asking for advice a/o opinions, and they get what they get. No, people are not always nice to them. But then people are not always nice in real life either. If I think my friend's new guy is an asshole, I won't tell her that, but if she asks me, well now I have to, don't I? I think I do.

As far as the mob mentality on this board, I agree with some of the OP's statements:

What I see in others, often appears to be gang mentality and/or, wanting to fit in. There will be one poster, perhaps someone less fortunate, emotionally, mentally, educationally, financially, or physically. Someone that has certain qualities that are considered disgusting or pathetic. I occasionally see, an almost nasty teen girl type reaction. Oh, it gets quite expertly coated in 'helpfulness' but the nasty is there, glaring, obvious for all to see. With no exactly word or phrase as a sign, but still there none the less. ~LaTigresse

I tend to drift in and out every few days, weeks, months, so I think it's easier to see the cliques form and reform. I tend to avoid the gang bangs, even if I agree with what is stated, because of that mob attack mentality.

Occasionally there are posters who appear to be mentally ill. Personally I have trouble responding in a realistic way to them, mostly because those posters are not here for advice. They tend to be here for their own self-aggrandizement, and I am not interested in helping them promote their own insanity.

I find many  posters beyond silly and just try to have fun with the thread, like my "I saw Jesus" joke on the thread started by the self righteous self preserver.  I'm here to enjoy myself and get advice or give advice as I can, not to change the world or take things too seriously.

My only REAL compliant about the CM board is that all cooking recipes should be separately tagged for easy reference. And no, I am not kidding.


_____________________________

Some soften by the forced reflection that comes from loss; others harden. Which are you?




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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:24:13 PM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline 		I mostly post out of a genuine desire to be helpful, or to participate in the discussion, but sometimes my snarky side gets triggered. I'll carefully consider the post, and perhaps edit it or not send it. I was deliberately catty once and felt bad for days :(

I do consider my audience as I would prefer my message be heard. I don't bother to respond to some P&R posters.

Is the Introductions forum more heavily moderated these days? I think this is a good thing, despite making for blander threads. If this isn't my imagination, it seemed to have happened after Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' shooting.

(in reply to Jennislut)
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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:27:34 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		~FR~

LaT.. thanks for the food for thought.  I have been guilty of excessive snarkiness.   Sometimes, I even feel kinda bad later.

I don't feel bad when it's a poster that starts out with snarky/'superior"/self righteous comments.

_____________________________

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Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:29:28 PM   
LillyBoPeep


Posts: 6873
Joined: 12/29/2010
Status: offline 		i'm a really empathetic person, so i try to relate to someone's feelings, even if i don't totally relate to them. i think it's perfectly possible to be nice AND honest at the same time. i think people use "honesty" as an excuse for bitchiness, which i find very off-putting.
i experienced a good deal of in-person bullying as a kid, and i have no desire whatsoever to put that back on someone else.


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Midwestern Girl

"Obey your Master." Metallica


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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:35:51 PM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Yeah, I was the target of lots of bullying when I was a kid too.  I think sometimes I forget what it was like.

_____________________________

polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:36:38 PM   
peppermint


Posts: 5171
Joined: 10/18/2005
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

So where are your lines? Where do you step in? Do you, do you feel any obligation to monitor your words? Do you feel more free to be nasty via the net? Do you ever consider that the person you are about to attack might not think, feel, have the same capacity to deflect, understand, cope........as you do? Do you even give a shit......ever?


More than once after I have written a reply, I delete it before it is posted.  I do give a shit which means I am my own editor. 

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:49:29 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

It is a topic I tend to have many 'in head' conversations about. I DON'T want to be a bully. But yet, I am sure that many of my posts COULD be taken that way. Hell, I am sure that some of them actually have been written in that intent.

I really do see a lot of gray in this particular instance. Only the person writing can honestly know intent. Even then, I think there are personal issues and subconscious intent that will colour what they honestly believe is their intent. We all have our own 'stuff' we bring to the table here.

The bullied can become the bully. The perpetual victim usually does not see their addiction to being one. We are adults and we SHOULD be able to take responsibility for our shit..........yet, all around us is examples of grown adults with unresolved shit. Even in our mirrors.

Now don't expect me to join hands and want to sing Kumbaya......I am just typing my 'in head' discussion this time.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to peppermint)
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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 1:55:24 PM   
Marc2b


Posts: 6660
Joined: 8/7/2006
Status: offline 		Good topic but I don't have the time to write a response now... maybe tommorow.

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Do you know what the most awesome thing about being an Atheist is? You're not required to hate anybody!

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 2:10:56 PM   
Delilya


Posts: 4108
Joined: 2/2/2011
Status: offline 		I try, but don't always succeed, to be nice. I feel bad about it if I snap at someone.

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“Love me without fear, trust me without questioning, need me without demanding, want me without restrictions, accept me without changes, desire me without inhibitions"-Dick Sutphen

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 2:13:02 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
So where are your lines? Where do you step in? Do you, do you feel any obligation to monitor your words? Do you feel more free to be nasty via the net? Do you ever consider that the person you are about to attack might not think, feel, have the same capacity to deflect, understand, cope........as you do? Do you even give a shit......ever?

I can debate just about any topic with anyone without making it some kind of personal thing.  At the same time, I'm pretty blunt.  If I think something isn't the brightest idea in the world, I'm probably going to convey that.  When people are responsible for their own misery, I'm probably going to mention that, too.

The high majority of the time, I consider that we are on an adult site with adult content, so I expect people to be adults.  I expect people to be mature enough to deal with the answers that they receive.  I don't think folks should expected to be patted on the head, coddled, and only ever have to hear only the things that they like.  Kind of makes sense when people come here with their problems that have everything to do with their own decisions that got them in the mess that they are in to begin with.

As for stepping in, I'll absolutely do that if someone has decided it's a good idea to make unprovoked remarks about My husband or My sub.  I have a tendency to do it when it comes to other folks that I know away from this screen and someone has decided that they make for a good target.  I won't apologize for that.  It's not going to change.

It isn't rational to believe that everyone is the same.  We all have different ways of looking at things and have our own perceptions.  Everybody has a bad day once in a while and they might take things more to heart than normal.  That happens.  It's momentary and isn't an earth shattering thing.

On the other hand, we have some folks that they take everything as a personal attack.  They don't cope well and everything is always everyone else's fault.  I don't think people could sneeze without offending them in some way.  I'm not going to tip toe around them.  It might even do them so good to wonder why they have the issues that they do. 

At the end of the day, it's a message board.  If it's really affecting someone that much, maybe they should shut the computer off and go outside.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 2:41:44 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline 		I still have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of internet bullying, when it comes to adults.

That someone can feel bullied, or threatened, by anonymous people through a computer is just...bizarre. I've been on plenty of threads, on here and other message boards, where my opinion was not popular, and had several other posters arguing against me. Did I feel bullied? No.

If things got 'nasty', if other people started attacking me personally, well then that just shows the weakness of the other person, lowering themselves to using an argument from intimidation. Do I feel bullied? No. I usually laugh at the absurdity of it.

Kids, however, are different. But we're adults, arguing over the internet. How can we take that seriously?

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The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.

- Ayn Rand

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 2:44:44 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		That is what I struggle with. My thought process tends to be much the same as LadyPact's.

However, I have to accept that not everyone thinks like I do. I am just exploring how others think.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 3:45:34 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Hi LaTigresse

I try to give the warm fuzzy answer... I always try to see the other side and point out an alternative way of thinking if I don't agree. I never call anyone stupid nor insult them for their stance.

I am a peace maker... if I see someone being ganged up on I try to make their view understood if not agreed with...But… it does piss me off to see people made fun of...insulted...or ignored because they have a view point that differs from the majority.

I am tolerant of other ideas and will only push when shoved...but I push hard.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/10/2011 3:47:08 PM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 3:45:40 PM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

So where are your lines? Where do you step in? Do you, do you feel any obligation to monitor your words? Do you feel more free to be nasty via the net? Do you ever consider that the person you are about to attack might not think, feel, have the same capacity to deflect, understand, cope........as you do? Do you even give a shit......ever?

I admit, I am a nasty bitch who believes in speaking her mind. If I think someone is a fucking idiot, I say 'you are fucking idiot'...online or to their face, whichever situation happens to be playing out at that time.
I don't sugar coat. I don't beat about the bush. I don't 'soften' my words out of compassion.
If it's something that is taken offensively, or even defensively...too fucking bad, in my head. Grow a spine, grow up, become responsible, etc, etc...

And no. I don't give a flying fuck if I hurt someone's feelings.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 4:28:37 PM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		We tend to think people are like us - at the same mental age, emotional age, maturity age, etc. When someone gives a hint that they are mentally impaired in some way, I do become a kinder, gentler person. (I know that smartass holly is probably going to say "links or it didn't happen".)

I don't, however, consider people displaying personality disorders (or symptoms of them) to be mentally impaired. They are usually socially impaired.

I am blunt. I am direct. That isn't bullying. Bullying is taking a defect, real or imagined, and harrassing someone about it. Now you could say we bully holly, and you might be right, but hey, she likes it and with that head injury, she probably wouldn't remember anyway.



Cali




_____________________________

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RE: Internet bullying. - 3/10/2011 4:30:42 PM   
angelikaJ


Posts: 8641
Joined: 6/22/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

i'm a really empathetic person, so i try to relate to someone's feelings, even if i don't totally relate to them. i think it's perfectly possible to be nice AND honest at the same time. i think people use "honesty" as an excuse for bitchiness, which i find very off-putting.
i experienced a good deal of in-person bullying as a kid, and i have no desire whatsoever to put that back on someone else.



My having been bullied when I was young colors my posts in much the same way I think.
I am very grateful online bullying was not in existence when I was growing up.

My rules for posting are generally (but not always)
1)will it contribute something positive to the discussion?
2)is it true to the best of my knowledge?
3)is it kind?

Sometimes I have found myself venturing into snark but I don't do snark well and people often thank me anyway.
Often when I feel I have crossed the line I will send the person a cmail and personally apologise to them.

I have stepped in when I have thought lines were being crossed, and that has been from the very beginnings of my time on CM.

Having said that, I am a big proponent of personal responsibility.
But for many people, getting there is a journey. It was that way for me, and I don't cast stones at people who may not be there yet.
I will point out where I think they are off track but kind of leave it there.
I know from my personal experience, being shamed never helped me learn better or faster.
It tended to either make me feel defensive or keep me stuck in the problem, rather than moving towards a solution which included personal responsibility.

edit to clarify

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 3/10/2011 4:37:13 PM >

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