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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 9:10:28 PM   
pogo4pres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Obama, once again all words and no action, except that duck hook once a round. We are clearly perceived by our friends as an unreliable ally and by our enemies as a paper tiger. Nice hand, sir.



You're joking right wilb, because Osama bin Laden has clearly stated that when St Ronzo of Regan pulled out of Lebanon after the 1983 Beirut Marine barracks bombing HE perceived us THEN as a paper tiger.  That was TWENTY FIVE YEARS of fuck-ups before the election of the current president.   

Our policies in the middle east started going south the minute oil was discovered in great quantities there.  So let us blame Obama for the entire 80 year history of fuck-ups, yeah sure.


Historically,
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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 9:34:20 PM   
Marini


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Status: offline 		My first fast reply!

Watching what is happening in Libya is heartbreaking.

Why does it always seem to be the United States or nobody gets involved? Where the hell is the UN? I know stupid question.

Seriously, why can't we get a coalition of military from MANY countries { UK, USA, Canda, all of our friends}and start working together?

I agree it should not always be the United States, and it is time for more countries to start stepping up, and we need to work together.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 10:10:58 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pogo4pres

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Obama, once again all words and no action, except that duck hook once a round. We are clearly perceived by our friends as an unreliable ally and by our enemies as a paper tiger. Nice hand, sir.



You're joking right wilb, because Osama bin Laden has clearly stated that when St Ronzo of Regan pulled out of Lebanon after the 1983 Beirut Marine barracks bombing HE perceived us THEN as a paper tiger.  That was TWENTY FIVE YEARS of fuck-ups before the election of the current president.   

Our policies in the middle east started going south the minute oil was discovered in great quantities there.  So let us blame Obama for the entire 80 year history of fuck-ups, yeah sure.


Historically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ



Stick with 2011, maybe you can follow the thread more easily.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 10:12:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marini

My first fast reply!

Watching what is happening in Libya is heartbreaking.

Why does it always seem to be the United States or nobody gets involved? Where the hell is the UN? I know stupid question.

Seriously, why can't we get a coalition of military from MANY countries { UK, USA, Canda, all of our friends}and start working together?

I agree it should not always be the United States, and it is time for more countries to start stepping up, and we need to work together.


Because Obama sits on his ass hoping for "multi-lateral peace talks" that have done exactly nothing in the history of the world.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 10:21:08 PM   
stellauk


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Obama, once again all words and no action, except that duck hook once a round. We are clearly perceived by our friends as an unreliable ally and by our enemies as a paper tiger. Nice hand, sir.


Look on the bright side. It's an improvement to being perceived as a laughing stock for giving someone like Bush two terms.

However looking at the present GOP candidates if Obama loses Americans will continue to be a source of amusement a while longer...

..

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 10:32:24 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Obama, once again all words and no action, except that duck hook once a round. We are clearly perceived by our friends as an unreliable ally and by our enemies as a paper tiger. Nice hand, sir.


Look on the bright side. It's an improvement to being perceived as a laughing stock for giving someone like Bush two terms.

However looking at the present GOP candidates if Obama loses Americans will continue to be a source of amusement a while longer...

..


We have a helluva a long way down to go and still laugh at the UK.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 11:27:19 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Because Obama sits on his ass hoping for "multi-lateral peace talks" that have done exactly nothing in the history of the world.


It may not have sunk in yet Willbe, but the 'Send in the Marines/Bomb the towelheads back to the Stone Age'-type policies you advocate just don't work any more.

It is precisely this utterly discredited approach, deployed and failed elsewhere in the region to the US's great cost, that have left Obama with relatively few options. One of Obama's good options is:
DO NOT REPEAT THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST.
Good on Obama for exercising that option.

Can I recommend you spend some time analysing why these policies fail instead of calling for their mindless repetition? Pogo4Pres's final paragraph (post #21 above) seems like an excellent place to begin your analysis.

The goal of freedom for the people of the region is far too precious for it to be screwed up totally (yet) again by another episode of neo-con lunacy.


< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/15/2011 11:34:28 PM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 11:29:50 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Because Obama sits on his ass hoping for "multi-lateral peace talks" that have done exactly nothing in the history of the world.


It may not have sunk in yet Willbe, but the 'Send in the Marines/Bomb the towelheads back to the Stone Age'-type policies you advocate just don't work any more.

It is precisely this utterly discredited approach, deployed and failed elsewhere in the region to the US's great cost, that have left Obama with relatively few options. One of Obama's good options is:
DO NOT REPEAT THE MISTAKES OF THE PAST.
Good on Obama for exercising that option.

Can I recommend you spend some time analysing why these policies fail instead of calling for their mindless repetition? The goal of freedom for the people of the region is far too precious for it to be screwed up totally (yet) again by another episode of neo-con lunacy.



I have spent plenty of time analyzing them. I'll give you a pass on your misstatement of what policies I advocate, but go ahead a name a single instance where overwhelming force was used and didnt work.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 3/15/2011 11:30:11 PM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 11:44:48 PM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

[I have spent plenty of time analyzing them. I'll give you a pass on your misstatement of what policies I advocate, but go ahead a name a single instance where overwhelming force was used and didnt work.


So are you suggesting we should go in there with guns blazing?

Like Bruce Willis said, (Die Hard), "Yippee kai-yay, Mother-----r!!"

ETA: I'm not calling you the MF Willbe, I was going more for the cowboy thing.

< Message edited by hlen5 -- 3/15/2011 11:46:04 PM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 11:49:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

[I have spent plenty of time analyzing them. I'll give you a pass on your misstatement of what policies I advocate, but go ahead a name a single instance where overwhelming force was used and didnt work.


So are you suggesting we should go in there with guns blazing?

Like Bruce Willis said, (Die Hard), "Yippee kai-yay, Mother-----r!!"

ETA: I'm not calling you the MF Willbe, I was going more for the cowboy thing.



No, Im not suggesting that. That was Tweakabird's incorrect statement. But she said that it doesnt work, and she's simply wrong about that, unless she has some bizarre definition of "working".

What has never worked is saying "Blah blah blah, Qadaffi's got to go", and then leave for the golf course and not do a fucking thing about it, including snubbing your supposed allies.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/15/2011 11:53:44 PM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I have spent plenty of time analyzing them. I'll give you a pass on your misstatement of what policies I advocate, but go ahead a name a single instance where overwhelming force was used and didnt work.


Vietnam (both French and American varieties)
Ireland 1916-21
Lebanon (both Israeli invasions, 1980s and 2006)
Iraq (GWB version)
Israel Gaza 2008, (Goal: elimination of Hamas; Outcome: Hamas is still the Govt there)
Afghanistan 1976 (I think) Russian invasion
Iraqi invasion of Kuwait
Outcome of World War I
Algeria (vs French 1950s & 60s)
Suez 1956 (Anglo-French invasion with Israeli connivance)
Just about any successful guerilla war anywhere.

I could go on but it's not even the point.

The point is not winning the war Willbe. The point, as the US found out in Iraq, is winning the peace. And overwhelming force doesn't do that. Politics does.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 3/15/2011 11:54:58 PM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 12:03:23 AM   
pogo4pres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I have spent plenty of time analyzing them. I'll give you a pass on your misstatement of what policies I advocate, but go ahead a name a single instance where overwhelming force was used and didnt work.



wilb stop being a dope analyze this : in 1953 who (at the behest of Royal Dutch Shell and BP) went into Iran and overthrew their legally and democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mossedeq, ( with an assist from MI-6) because he was threatening to nationalize his oil industry?

What organization was that wilb?  Can you say the C I A.  Now wilb I'll politely inform you that this is a region where the people will maintain a blood feud between two families, over a killing in 1385.  You seriously think reinstalling "our pal" the Shah was such a great fucking idea considering the blow back of the eventual Islamic revolution of 1979??

You think the people forgot our complicity in putting that fucking thug back in power? Well if you do I suggest you  reread sentence two of paragraph two.  Around the time of the revolution one of the oil companies ran an ad that explained how their "analysts" foresaw the eventual revolution if we continued to support the Shah.  There were government analysts that said the same. 

In closing wilb I suggest you learn some fucking history, before you post again.



Historically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ

< Message edited by pogo4pres -- 3/16/2011 12:15:44 AM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 12:03:25 AM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I have spent plenty of time analyzing them. I'll give you a pass on your misstatement of what policies I advocate, but go ahead a name a single instance where overwhelming force was used and didnt work.


Vietnam (both French and American varieties)
Ireland 1916-21
Lebanon (both Israeli invasions, 1980s and 2006)
Iraq (GWB version)
Israel Gaza 2008, (Goal: elimination of Hamas; Outcome: Hamas is still the Govt there)
Afghanistan 1976 (I think) Russian invasion
Iraqi invasion of Kuwait
Outcome of World War I
Algeria (vs French 1950s & 60s)
Suez 1956 (Anglo-French invasion with Israeli connivance)
Just about any successful guerilla war anywhere.

I could go on but it's not even the point.

The point is not winning the war Willbe. The point, as the US found out in Iraq, is winning the peace. And overwhelming force doesn't do that. Politics does.


You can win as much peace as you want if you are prepared to take over the country when youre done. Overwhelming force wasnt even close to being used in anything you named.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 12:07:16 AM   
Edwynn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: pogo4pres

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Obama, once again all words and no action, except that duck hook once a round. We are clearly perceived by our friends as an unreliable ally and by our enemies as a paper tiger. Nice hand, sir.



You're joking right wilb, because Osama bin Laden has clearly stated that when St Ronzo of Regan pulled out of Lebanon after the 1983 Beirut Marine barracks bombing HE perceived us THEN as a paper tiger.  That was TWENTY FIVE YEARS of fuck-ups before the election of the current president.   

Our policies in the middle east started going south the minute oil was discovered in great quantities there.  So let us blame Obama for the entire 80 year history of fuck-ups, yeah sure.


Historically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ



Stick with 2011, maybe you can follow the thread more easily.



Difficult to believe Willbeur's new-found honesty, admiting to the world that he just now woke up and proudly professes lacking any knowledge of history concerning the ME region or US foreign diplomacy prior to last year.

Or is that in the last six months.

Or whatever the paper told him yesterday. The only thing of pertinence in that world being which politician did it, and that's all some people need to know.

No need to forget what was never known in the first place, I suppose.



< Message edited by Edwynn -- 3/16/2011 12:14:39 AM >

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 12:11:02 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

Maybe during the next crisis if he can get off of the golf course in time he should ask Canada to handle the problem
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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 12:11:30 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


You can win as much peace as you want if you are prepared to take over the country when youre done. Overwhelming force wasnt even close to being used in anything you named.


If we take over the country, we will poison hearts and minds of the populace (further) against us.

So what DO you suggest?

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 2:08:14 AM   
ChiDS


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I personally wish Egypt would help their brother's in arms, being as they share a boarder and have just recently had their own revolution.  Kudos to all the Middle Eastern and North African countries throwing off their dictators and corrupt governments.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 5:29:14 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
Because Obama sits on his ass hoping for "multi-lateral peace talks" that have done exactly nothing in the history of the world.

There's still an IRA bombing campaign ongoing in the UK, then. That's how useless peace talks are.

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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 6:05:45 AM   
Sanity


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Oh, Obama supports the people of Libya alright, just silently.

With his back turned.

And from as far away as possible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
No, Im not suggesting that. That was Tweakabird's incorrect statement. But she said that it doesnt work, and she's simply wrong about that, unless she has some bizarre definition of "working".

What has never worked is saying "Blah blah blah, Qadaffi's got to go", and then leave for the golf course and not do a fucking thing about it, including snubbing your supposed allies.


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RE: Gadhafi tells rebels to surrender - 3/16/2011 10:12:41 AM   
Lucylastic


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