Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective?

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Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 7:04:20 PM

Marini

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I thought this topic needed a separate thread.

I hope I am not becoming a compulsive thread starter, "One of those people that is constantly starting threads".
If so, HippieKinkster well come soon and read my ass.

I am happy that the UN finally decided to impose a No-fly zone over Libya a couple of hours ago.

Is it too late for a No-fly zone to be effective?
Why the hell did it take so long for this to be passed?

Is it too late to effectively help the civilians without also sending in some sort of military assistance on the ground?

UN finally passes No-fly zone over libya!

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/17/2011 7:57:57 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

Post #: 1

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 7:35:16 PM

servantforuse

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To late now. Obama was busy on the golf course ( 61 and counting ) and he had to finish his NCAA brackets before the tournament started.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 2

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 7:36:21 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To late now. Obama was busy on the golf course ( 61 and counting ) and he had to finish his NCAA brackets before the tournament started.

Have you ever considered he is planning strategic moves while on the golf course and watching basketball?

Maybe it's not too late for No-fly zone?
Maybe we can blast Ghadaffy off the planet?
It's not too late for ground support.

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/17/2011 7:49:45 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 3

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 7:37:58 PM

jlf1961

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The question I have is a simple one, are the Republicans going to increase spending to PAY for the extra operations this will involve?

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RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 7:42:53 PM

servantforuse

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It wouldn't have cost to much to take out the runways that allowed Qaddafi's jets to take off. It would have at least given the rebels a chance.

(in reply to jlf1961)

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RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 7:43:30 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

The question I have is a simple one, are the Republicans going to increase spending to PAY for the extra operations this will involve?

Silly Jeff, we always have money for wars and the military !!
If we don't go to Libya, we would be going somewhere else anyway.

Also, we are not going alone, we do have UN support right?

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/17/2011 7:44:47 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 6

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 7:50:53 PM

servantforuse

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Reagan sent Qaddafi a message once by shooting a missle into his house. Maybe a similar message from Obama could have had the same effect.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 7

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 7:51:52 PM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To late now. Obama was busy on the golf course ( 61 and counting ) and he had to finish his NCAA brackets before the tournament started.

It seems to me that, providing Benghazi and Tobruk survive until the no fly zone is effectively operating, that ground support won't be needed. It's clear that the rebels enjoy overwhelming popular support.

Prior to the large scale deployment of air support, the rebels made astonishing advances. There may not be any reason why these advances cannot be replicated. I would imagine that the UN decision will be a huge blow to loyalist morale, and an equally huge boost to the rebels. I'm optimistic of large scale defections.

Ghaddafi's fate seems sealed to me. He has no international support, and no where to run to. There seems to me to be only possible outcome - it's only a question of time and how bloody the path to that outcome is. How many of his followers will join him in a doomed battle to the end is questionable.

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RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:00:55 PM

pogo4pres

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FR

The "rebels" already have zpu's (a wheeled anti-aircraft gun) but they needed more. That is where the no-fly zone comes in. That the president didn't get a stiff prick for going to war is apparently a crime to some, to me it means he actually took the time to put together a real coalition. Which is also the same as using his homo sapiens brain and not his prehistoric "lizard brain" like some fucking cowboy deserter did.

Combatively,
Some Knucklehead in NJ

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RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:02:59 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

To late now. Obama was busy on the golf course ( 61 and counting ) and he had to finish his NCAA brackets before the tournament started.

It seems to me that, providing Benghazi and Tobruk survive until the no fly zone is effectively operating, that ground support won't be needed. It's clear that the rebels enjoy overwhelming popular support.

Prior to the large scale deployment of air support, the rebels made astonishing advances. There may not be any reason why these advances cannot be replicated. I would imagine that the UN decision will be a huge blow to loyalist morale, and an equally huge boost to the rebels. I'm optimistic of large scale defections.

Ghaddafi's fate seems sealed to me. He has no international support, and no where to run to. There seems to me to be only possible outcome - it's only a question of time and how bloody the path to that outcome is. How many of his followers will join him in a doomed battle to the end is questionable.

As much as I wanted the US to get involved, we damn well didn't need to get involved alone.
It's the UN that should be ashamed!
What took them so damn long to do this?

This is a great post tweaky, I hope you are correct and it doesn't drag on for months.

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to tweakabelle)

Post #: 10

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:05:10 PM

kdsub

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OK…I’ll take the heat… What damn business is it of the US , if we are asked to provide air intercepts and put our boys and girls in harms way, to interfere in a civil war?

Yes the man is a nut case but he is being supported not only by his army… but it seems a good portion of Libyans.

It is for them to straighten out…not the UN… or the US. If there is to be any action or interference let the Arab world of surrounding countries step in.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to tweakabelle)

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RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:05:43 PM

servantforuse

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The UN is a joke.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 12

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:12:39 PM

Marini

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK…I’ll take the heat… What damn business is it of the US , if we are asked to provide air intercepts and put our boys and girls in harms way, to interfere in a civil war?

Yes the man is a nut case but he is being supported not only by his army… but it seems a good portion of Libyans.

It is for them to straighten out…not the UN… or the US. If there is to be any action or interference let the Arab world of surrounding countries step in.

Butch

Butch, you make a great argument.
I enjoy hearing different opinions, we do live in a free country, don't we?

I protested the war in Iraq twice before we invaded that country.
I cried the day we started bombing Iraq.

we can trot our asses to Iraq and be involved THERE for almost 10 years and counting.
Tell me {cause I still don't know} why the FUCK are we in Iraq?

Why the hell can't we go in with UN support and help those that we
CAN CLEARLY SEE NEED AND DESERVE support?????

< Message edited by Marini -- 3/17/2011 8:21:40 PM >

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 13

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:26:44 PM

kdsub

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I agree about Iraq, it was a disgrace that the US invaded.. they did not attack us and we had no right or business going there. We were justified to go into Afghanistan to get the planners of 911...We should have followed them to Pakistan... then left. We have no right to nation build anywhere in the world...But we do have the right to defend ourselves.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 14

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:29:03 PM

Brain

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It's actually misleading to only call it a no-fly zone because they are going to attack and destroy any tanks or other military action Moammar Qaddafi forces try to take. It's only a matter of time for him and it will be over. If he's smart he will try to negotiate his way out of what for him is a catastrophe and his best option to save his life is to spend it in jail.

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 15

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:29:59 PM

kdsub

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Just because the UN says it is right...does not make it right... how many UN decisions in the last 20 years have been right?

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Marini)

Post #: 16

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:31:56 PM

Brain

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Just because you say that doesn't make it true. You will see in your future Moammar Qaddafi will be finished.

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The UN is a joke.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 17

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:36:48 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK…I’ll take the heat… What damn business is it of the US , if we are asked to provide air intercepts and put our boys and girls in harms way, to interfere in a civil war?

Yes the man is a nut case but he is being supported not only by his army… but it seems a good portion of Libyans.

It is for them to straighten out…not the UN… or the US. If there is to be any action or interference let the Arab world of surrounding countries step in.

I'm not defending here, only explaining...

Our action in this, and the timing of it, was motivated purely by politics. In order to get on the good side of the government that will be ruling Libya in the future, we had no choice but to intervene on their behalf. But in order to avoid looking like hegemonic nation-building imperialist cowboys in the eyes of the rest of the Arab world, we had no choice but to wait a decent interval before rolling up our sleeves and wading into the fight. We're sending numerous messages to both the people and the governments of the Middle East - that we will intervene on the side of populist uprisings if the government does not resolve them peacefully and democratically. Our message is meant to encourage progressive citizens of these countries to stand up and take their countries back, and to discourage Arab governments from taking a hard line against progressive populism.

As I said, I'm not defending it - just sayin', that's the "why" of it.

_____________________________

Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to kdsub)

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RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:42:19 PM

Marini

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Joined: 2/14/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

OK…I’ll take the heat… What damn business is it of the US , if we are asked to provide air intercepts and put our boys and girls in harms way, to interfere in a civil war?

Yes the man is a nut case but he is being supported not only by his army… but it seems a good portion of Libyans.

It is for them to straighten out…not the UN… or the US. If there is to be any action or interference let the Arab world of surrounding countries step in.

I'm not defending here, only explaining...

Our action in this, and the timing of it, was motivated purely by politics. In order to get on the good side of the government that will be ruling Libya in the future, we had no choice but to intervene on their behalf. But in order to avoid looking like hegemonic nation-building imperialist cowboys in the eyes of the rest of the Arab world, we had no choice but to wait a decent interval before rolling up our sleeves and wading into the fight. We're sending numerous messages to both the people and the governments of the Middle East - that we will intervene on the side of populist uprisings if the government does not resolve them peacefully and democratically. Our message is meant to encourage progressive citizens of these countries to stand up and take their countries back, and to discourage Arab governments from taking a hard line against progressive populism.

As I said, I'm not defending it - just sayin', that's the "why" of it.

It is nice to see some military action that I agree with, before I go to heaven.

Logical sounding reply from the Panda man!

_____________________________

As always, To EACH their Own.
"And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. "
Nelson Mandela
Life-long Democrat, not happy at all with Democratic Party.
NOT a Republican/Moderate and free agent

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

Post #: 19

RE: Is it too late for No-fly zone to be effective? - 3/17/2011 8:48:14 PM

Sanity

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Translation - After leftists spent the last eight years screaming their outrageous lies to the entire world about how the United States is such a horrid, brutal imperialist nation for liberating those millions of Iraqis and Afghans, Barack Obama was very hard pressed to follow in GWs footsteps and lift even his little finger to help lift up a few million people on his own watch.

Obama would have found such a high calling nothing short of embarrassing, hence all the confusion amongst our allies, all the mixed messages and his complete lack of commitment towards extending freedom and democracy towards those poor desperate souls who were so bravely reaching out for it.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to ThatDamnedPanda)

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